Loading...
> >

Genesis 9 delayed until at least 2020. Will you be buying it?

1…78101213…30

Comments

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    Patrick Tyner said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    artistb3 said:
    artistb3 said:

    Not a chance I would even consider buying it unless there is full, 100% backward and forward compatability.  Based on the past, not likely to happen.

    And when I mention compatability, I am refering to all poses (including expressions), all UVs, all clothing items and all morphs.  Will not accept solutions that require additional purchases of add-ons or endless hours spent on work-arounds.

    If nothing is changed then it won't be a new figure.

     

    Maybe a combination of Genesis 9 and Studio 5 allowing Gen 9 to be able to use any clothing textures and morphs from Michael/Victoria 4 on up to Gen 9 without the purchases of niggles like GenX work arounds.

    New Software - Free; New Genesis Version - Free; Lots of Access to Morphs - Free.

    They sure will need to sell lots of something to fund all that free.

  • Patrick TynerPatrick Tyner Posts: 640
    Actually if this convinces people to move up to newest studio and Genesis 9 figures, there are a lot of people dragging their feet to move up now to not having access to their older stuff on the newer generations. They would then upgrade not just to Genesis 9 but all of the characters from previous generations. Thus bringing in more money.
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    edited January 2019

    Perhaps.

    I didn't say it was a bad idea, I said would need to sell lots to make up for the investment, and the removal of some products from the paid-for sector and over to the free.

    ... Would there be compromises or conditions attached to that functionality? No idea.

    It isn't even speculation, considering there is no indication Version 5 is even on the horizon; there would be a lot of work fixing plugins that broke, and perhaps scripts that ceased to work with the introduction of 5.

    Studio 5 is off- topic though, and has its own thread.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • LenioTGLenioTG Posts: 2,118
    edited January 2019
    nicstt said:
    kameneko said:
    nicstt said:
    kameneko said:

    Well, my PC still doesn't fully use the Gen 8, if the Gen 9 will be even heavier I couldn't use it. I'd be happy, because Gen 8 stuff would be cheaper.

    With the current trend, we probably already have most of our content converted for Gen 8, and we would have some converters for Gen 9, but it would be a big expense! Considering Male and Female versions for hair and clothes, a universal version for UVs and poses, plus the basic morphs, it would be more than 100$, just to access our previous content...so what I would really like, would be to see those converters included...but I know it won't happen, because Daz is free, and that way there would be less profits from the store (everyone would buy old products for a lower price, without considering the developing cost for those new tools).

    I'm not into animation for now, so if it focused on that, I would gladly skip Gen 9.

    What could they already change? Skins? Morphs? Did the technology really improve this much in 2 years?

    But honestly I can tell the difference between G3 and G8, and everything before that looks almost prehistoric to me...but I've just started, and I went with G8 because I did not have any older content. Yet now I'm buying old clothes etc. because of the converters.

    It isn't the figure per se; Genesis 8 has fewer vertices (a less dense mesh) than V4. The textures are likely the cause, although ramping up Sub D can cause issues.

    To get some improved performance; turn down sub d on viewport, and have it as low as needed on renders. Reduce textures sizes (there is a script and a product, although simple enough to do manually - but time-consuming).

    Render Settings > Optimisation > Speed/Ram. Chose Speed. Ram is useful when it doesn't quite fit on the card. (Smaller resolution renders?)

    Preferences (F2) > Interface > Display Optimisation > Best.

    There's another setting too iirc, but can't recall - hopefull someone else will add it.

    Yes, thanks, I'm already doing everything you've mentioned! ^^
    Indeed, when I split a scene in two parts, I manage to use my GPU.

    In any case, with my current situation, I wouldn't upgrade to an even newer generation, because like this my system has already met its limit!

    Your Ryzen 5 is decent; it could use more RAM. You would likely get good milage from 32GB (16 if you want to save some cash) and a much better card.

    8 GB sucks for not much more than basic useage.

     

    I've upgraded to 16Gb! ^^

    32Gb is out of my reach! But I rarely use more than 14 right now!

    Post edited by LenioTG on
  • Patrick TynerPatrick Tyner Posts: 640
    I only mention Studio 5 as a bridge because backwards compatiblity is such a strong topic for Genesis 9 update.
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,252
    Patrick Tyner said:
    Actually if this convinces people to move up to newest studio and Genesis 9 figures, there are a lot of people dragging their feet to move up now to not having access to their older stuff on the newer generations. They would then upgrade not just to Genesis 9 but all of the characters from previous generations. Thus bringing in more money.

    ...only if I win a lotto.

  • Dave63Dave63 Posts: 49
    edited January 2019
    kameneko said:
    Dave63 said:

     Be cool to see Genesis 9 work in an android app based on Daz Studio.

    Android???? How could, in a few years, an ARM chip handle Daz Studio! :O

    Do you mean videogames made using Daz Studio characters?

             There are already poser 1 style apps as well as 3D authoring apps (built on Unity-usually-, but not games) on android now. The selection will only get better and broader as tablets and phones get more powerful. Future proofing is important. It would also lead to a better GLSL render engine, which is something lots of people want in Daz Studio(even on the PC).

     

     

    Post edited by Dave63 on
  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,025

    I'll hold out hope for backwards-compatible morphs even if it's not likely. I can totally understand it not happening if it's a tech limitation, but the idea that they're banking on us reinvesting in morphs doesn't make sense to me; it's an easy point at which even dedicated buyers can say, "Welp, I've got enough stuff to keep me for a long time" and jump off. Meanwhile, most of their sales and point-of-entry messaging depend on older items maintaining their value for users. I would be rampaging through the G3 back catalogue if those characters could be efficiently transferred to G8.

    Without that, I'd have to think really hard before investing in a new generation. Most of the features I want would probably come with overall improvements to the software, and not necessarily to the figures themselves.

     

  • nemesis10nemesis10 Posts: 3,500
    plasma_ring said:

    I'll hold out hope for backwards-compatible morphs even if it's not likely. I can totally understand it not happening if it's a tech limitation, but the idea that they're banking on us reinvesting in morphs doesn't make sense to me; it's an easy point at which even dedicated buyers can say, "Welp, I've got enough stuff to keep me for a long time" and jump off. Meanwhile, most of their sales and point-of-entry messaging depend on older items maintaining their value for users. I would be rampaging through the G3 back catalogue if those characters could be efficiently transferred to G8.

    Without that, I'd have to think really hard before investing in a new generation. Most of the features I want would probably come with overall improvements to the software, and not necessarily to the figures themselves.

     

    I think this is a point where there is a great misunderstanding...  When you use a program like GenX to reshape an newer generation to match an older generation, it is always an approximation... The various generations have different numbers of vertices,  bones, material zones, and anatomy.  The only way to have true backward compatibility is to freeze the technology and always refuse any improvement that breaks compatibility which pretty much thwarts having a new figure.   Morphs, for example, are always going to be next to impossible to reverse engineer for an earlier figure since they simply don't have the same bones.   It is amazing that one can get a garment to fit an earlier generation in its own line where each generation of Genesis have pretty much the same arms, hips , legs and torsos.  The system breaks down when fitting shoes where the different numbers of bones in the feet make the issue often insurmountable.   The question is how much of an approximation are ypu willing to tolerate and what are a reasonable number of restrictions of improvements is acceptable to retain compatibility.  For example, should they forgo a more realistic eye because changes in anatomy whould prevent earlier eye textures from mapping properly?  big questions....

  • plasma_ringplasma_ring Posts: 1,025
    edited January 2019
    nemesis10 said:
    plasma_ring said:

    I'll hold out hope for backwards-compatible morphs even if it's not likely. I can totally understand it not happening if it's a tech limitation, but the idea that they're banking on us reinvesting in morphs doesn't make sense to me; it's an easy point at which even dedicated buyers can say, "Welp, I've got enough stuff to keep me for a long time" and jump off. Meanwhile, most of their sales and point-of-entry messaging depend on older items maintaining their value for users. I would be rampaging through the G3 back catalogue if those characters could be efficiently transferred to G8.

    Without that, I'd have to think really hard before investing in a new generation. Most of the features I want would probably come with overall improvements to the software, and not necessarily to the figures themselves.

     

    I think this is a point where there is a great misunderstanding...  When you use a program like GenX to reshape an newer generation to match an older generation, it is always an approximation... The various generations have different numbers of vertices,  bones, material zones, and anatomy.  The only way to have true backward compatibility is to freeze the technology and always refuse any improvement that breaks compatibility which pretty much thwarts having a new figure.   Morphs, for example, are always going to be next to impossible to reverse engineer for an earlier figure since they simply don't have the same bones.   It is amazing that one can get a garment to fit an earlier generation in its own line where each generation of Genesis have pretty much the same arms, hips , legs and torsos.  The system breaks down when fitting shoes where the different numbers of bones in the feet make the issue often insurmountable.   The question is how much of an approximation are ypu willing to tolerate and what are a reasonable number of restrictions of improvements is acceptable to retain compatibility.  For example, should they forgo a more realistic eye because changes in anatomy whould prevent earlier eye textures from mapping properly?  big questions....

    That's why I totally get it if the issue is a tech limitation; what I'm basically saying is that it seems like something they'd fix if they could, and that I don't think it's a matter of them actually wanting us to buy morphs over and over again. If it can't be changed, though, then in practice there are always going to be reasons to weigh whether or not it makes sense for an individual user to upgrade. That's not DAZ's fault, but if I were in charge of thinking about this stuff this'd be about the point where I'd want to release a new generation only if the features and technology it could offer had taken a big leap forward. 

    (Edited to add: What constitutes a "big leap" is also necessarily going to vary by user. I don't care about super-realism, but it might be a big growth moment for DAZ if they can really push that forward to make the models even more appealing for digital photography and the like.)

    Post edited by plasma_ring on
  • nemesis10nemesis10 Posts: 3,500
    plasma_ring said:
    nemesis10 said:
    plasma_ring said:

    I'll hold out hope for backwards-compatible morphs even if it's not likely. I can totally understand it not happening if it's a tech limitation, but the idea that they're banking on us reinvesting in morphs doesn't make sense to me; it's an easy point at which even dedicated buyers can say, "Welp, I've got enough stuff to keep me for a long time" and jump off. Meanwhile, most of their sales and point-of-entry messaging depend on older items maintaining their value for users. I would be rampaging through the G3 back catalogue if those characters could be efficiently transferred to G8.

    Without that, I'd have to think really hard before investing in a new generation. Most of the features I want would probably come with overall improvements to the software, and not necessarily to the figures themselves.

     

    I think this is a point where there is a great misunderstanding...  When you use a program like GenX to reshape an newer generation to match an older generation, it is always an approximation... The various generations have different numbers of vertices,  bones, material zones, and anatomy.  The only way to have true backward compatibility is to freeze the technology and always refuse any improvement that breaks compatibility which pretty much thwarts having a new figure.   Morphs, for example, are always going to be next to impossible to reverse engineer for an earlier figure since they simply don't have the same bones.   It is amazing that one can get a garment to fit an earlier generation in its own line where each generation of Genesis have pretty much the same arms, hips , legs and torsos.  The system breaks down when fitting shoes where the different numbers of bones in the feet make the issue often insurmountable.   The question is how much of an approximation are ypu willing to tolerate and what are a reasonable number of restrictions of improvements is acceptable to retain compatibility.  For example, should they forgo a more realistic eye because changes in anatomy whould prevent earlier eye textures from mapping properly?  big questions....

    That's why I totally get it if the issue is a tech limitation; what I'm basically saying is that it seems like something they'd fix if they could, and that I don't think it's a matter of them actually wanting us to buy morphs over and over again. If it can't be changed, though, then in practice there are always going to be reasons to weigh whether or not it makes sense for an individual user to upgrade. That's not DAZ's fault, but if I were in charge of thinking about this stuff this'd be about the point where I'd want to release a new generation only if the features and technology it could offer had taken a big leap forward. 

    You brought back a fond memory of a lovely grad student who has since passed away... we were discussing supermarket prices and I was telling her about their low profit magins because a large chain had just gone out of business...  Halfway through the conversation, she asked why everything wasn't like the pasta she bought which was always cheap and never seemed to change price.  I dutifully explained the concept of a loss leader and why everthing can't be priced below cost err one goes out of business and over my timeframe, i can remember when that package of pasta cost 89 cents rather than 3 dollars.
    The lack of backward compatibility is not a flaw;  it is the only way that the product can evolve and improve.  People end up wanting features that are bugs to other people and endless choices have to be made.  For example, the earliest figures have UV maps that had every feature on one UV map.  It was wonderful if you liked to make your own textures and terrible if you hoped for even a bit of realism. The various companies decided that their market would eventually evaporate if they couldn't make more realistic figures which breaks compatability.  So there is a choice; do you keep things as they are so that older products can use anything or do you improve and leave things behind.  
    An added point is there is no inherent reason to migrate your older figures; I can still gussy up a Victoria 1 Figure with iRay and put her in the background of a scene with Victoria 8. Your older figure still work.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    edited January 2019
    nemesis10 said:
    plasma_ring said:
    nemesis10 said:
    plasma_ring said:

    I'll hold out hope for backwards-compatible morphs even if it's not likely. I can totally understand it not happening if it's a tech limitation, but the idea that they're banking on us reinvesting in morphs doesn't make sense to me; it's an easy point at which even dedicated buyers can say, "Welp, I've got enough stuff to keep me for a long time" and jump off. Meanwhile, most of their sales and point-of-entry messaging depend on older items maintaining their value for users. I would be rampaging through the G3 back catalogue if those characters could be efficiently transferred to G8.

    Without that, I'd have to think really hard before investing in a new generation. Most of the features I want would probably come with overall improvements to the software, and not necessarily to the figures themselves.

     

    I think this is a point where there is a great misunderstanding...  When you use a program like GenX to reshape an newer generation to match an older generation, it is always an approximation... The various generations have different numbers of vertices,  bones, material zones, and anatomy.  The only way to have true backward compatibility is to freeze the technology and always refuse any improvement that breaks compatibility which pretty much thwarts having a new figure.   Morphs, for example, are always going to be next to impossible to reverse engineer for an earlier figure since they simply don't have the same bones.   It is amazing that one can get a garment to fit an earlier generation in its own line where each generation of Genesis have pretty much the same arms, hips , legs and torsos.  The system breaks down when fitting shoes where the different numbers of bones in the feet make the issue often insurmountable.   The question is how much of an approximation are ypu willing to tolerate and what are a reasonable number of restrictions of improvements is acceptable to retain compatibility.  For example, should they forgo a more realistic eye because changes in anatomy whould prevent earlier eye textures from mapping properly?  big questions....

    That's why I totally get it if the issue is a tech limitation; what I'm basically saying is that it seems like something they'd fix if they could, and that I don't think it's a matter of them actually wanting us to buy morphs over and over again. If it can't be changed, though, then in practice there are always going to be reasons to weigh whether or not it makes sense for an individual user to upgrade. That's not DAZ's fault, but if I were in charge of thinking about this stuff this'd be about the point where I'd want to release a new generation only if the features and technology it could offer had taken a big leap forward. 

    You brought back a fond memory of a lovely grad student who has since passed away... we were discussing supermarket prices and I was telling her about their low profit magins because a large chain had just gone out of business...  Halfway through the conversation, she asked why everything wasn't like the pasta she bought which was always cheap and never seemed to change price.  I dutifully explained the concept of a loss leader and why everthing can't be priced below cost err one goes out of business and over my timeframe, i can remember when that package of pasta cost 89 cents rather than 3 dollars.
    The lack of backward compatibility is not a flaw;  it is the only way that the product can evolve and improve.  People end up wanting features that are bugs to other people and endless choices have to be made.  For example, the earliest figures have UV maps that had every feature on one UV map.  It was wonderful if you liked to make your own textures and terrible if you hoped for even a bit of realism. The various companies decided that their market would eventually evaporate if they couldn't make more realistic figures which breaks compatability.  So there is a choice; do you keep things as they are so that older products can use anything or do you improve and leave things behind.  
    An added point is there is no inherent reason to migrate your older figures; I can still gussy up a Victoria 1 Figure with iRay and put her in the background of a scene with Victoria 8. Your older figure still work.

    I have fun making V4 items work on G8, particularly the texturs; with the morphs I'm generally happy enough to approximate the shape, particularly on the body.

    That older content still works, and often very well, with some time (and not a lot) spent updating the shader seems to be lost on many. Even applying one of the shaders created specifically for improveing the look of older models, is both effective and inexpensive and very quick.

    Post edited by nicstt on
  • dizzy88dizzy88 Posts: 51

    I would like to see:

    1) Linear skinning - there are already so many corrective morphs that it seems like it shouldn't make a difference, and linear is a lot easier to work with in external programs

    2) No separate eyelash mesh (what was the point of this?  Previous figures got on just fine with merged eyelashes)

    3) Anything else to make it more game-engine friendly

    My 2c

  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 2,048
    dizzy88 said:

    I would like to see:

    [...]

    3) Anything else to make it more game-engine friendly

    My 2c

    Most important to me: Joints suppose to look realistic in DAZ Studio. Looking good in any other app or render engine would be great, but secondary.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,165
    edited February 2019

    I usually skip a generation unless I have a pacific need for it. I skipped genesis for Genesis 2, I skipped genesis 3 for genesis 8  And so on. then later on in the future as sales and money permit i may go back and buy the older generations at a much greater 70% plus discount for the pro bundles . instead of the 30% for the new release.  But I still use victoria 4 so that is just my way of doing things.

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,249

    As a content creator I like the eyelashes as separated from the main mesh as you don't have to worry about distortion when making morphs.  They auto follow the face and eyes shapes pretty well.  OCCASIONALLY you have to do a little fix but from where I'm sitting this isn't an issue so far with any of the shapes I've made.  

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,345
    Unfortunately so many utilities are not available when a generation is first released that it's not useable for custom characters. It was maddening waiting for them to be released. Will I buy it? Probably, but I think I'll wait a year or so. Now if Daz temps me with the "Buy a Genesis 9 pro bundle and get one or more Genesis 8 or lower pro bundles free" deal, I'll probably succumb.
  • fred9803fred9803 Posts: 1,564

    A classic example of a pointless question. It isn't "will you" but "must you".

    Like with G8, most new content will eventually be G9 so there will be no choice about it. And most of the old stuff you bought that worked with G8 you'll have to re-buy to work with G9. Albeit some vendors will hack a patch to make previous clothes and things to half-work with the new generation. That's how it has always worked.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,320

    I like all hair separate from the model, seeing as it's so much more highly variable than people's bodies. 

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    fred9803 said:

    A classic example of a pointless question. It isn't "will you" but "must you".

    Like with G8, most new content will eventually be G9 so there will be no choice about it. And most of the old stuff you bought that worked with G8 you'll have to re-buy to work with G9. Albeit some vendors will hack a patch to make previous clothes and things to half-work with the new generation. That's how it has always worked.

    Doesn't mean that folks must buy; there are a number of people that use V4, Genesis, G2 and G3 as their goto generation.

    There are also a number that use what best suits their purpose, and others who adopt the latest but enjoy getting earlier generations to work with or transfer to said latest generation.

    A new generation never makes what one has bought previously obsolete - unless we make it so.

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    nicstt said:
    fred9803 said:

    A classic example of a pointless question. It isn't "will you" but "must you".

    Like with G8, most new content will eventually be G9 so there will be no choice about it. And most of the old stuff you bought that worked with G8 you'll have to re-buy to work with G9. Albeit some vendors will hack a patch to make previous clothes and things to half-work with the new generation. That's how it has always worked.

    Doesn't mean that folks must buy; there are a number of people that use V4, Genesis, G2 and G3 as their goto generation.

    There are also a number that use what best suits their purpose, and others who adopt the latest but enjoy getting earlier generations to work with or transfer to said latest generation.

    A new generation never makes what one has bought previously obsolete - unless we make it so.

    Indeed, and think the last paragraph was at least part of the motivation behind the development of Auto-Fit. As quirky as it is, it allows you to use content meant for an older figure generation on the newest one available at the time of a new generation release.
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,252
    dracorn said:
    Unfortunately so many utilities are not available when a generation is first released that it's not useable for custom characters. It was maddening waiting for them to be released. Will I buy it? Probably, but I think I'll wait a year or so. Now if Daz temps me with the "Buy a Genesis 9 pro bundle and get one or more Genesis 8 or lower pro bundles free" deal, I'll probably succumb.

    ...my position as well.  To get all the different morph, eye, mouth, and skin utilities useful for creating custom characters not only takes funds, but time waiting for them to be released.  By the time you have everything you need (as I discovered) the next generation is on its way (or as in the case of G8, already) out.  So the process has to begin anew as all the various tools required need to be compatible with the new figure mesh.  This also means taking the time to rebuild your characters on the new model as well.

    Sometimes you just have to stand up, pull the signal cord, and get off the bus before it goes into the next zone and you have to pay more.

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    empty said:

     

    I'd like to think I could resist buying G9 and maybe skip a generation, but I KNOW that ain't gonna happen.

    I'm so with you on that.  I love g8 though.  Especially now that they have added a lot more older characters with actual 3d wrinkles instead of just surface textures.  But I know I won't be able to resist the clothing and that means buying at least some of the characters.  My biggest wish is that they would figure out how to make it load faster, maybe a lower poly until the scene is set up and then render at full poly count.  I'm sure there are ways I can manually do that but a one click button to switch them out would be heaven for me.

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    Richard John S said:

     In conclusion, unless they make it so the previous generations of clothing, props, etc really fit properly and unless we are able to use G3 and G8 skins I am gonna have to go with no. It's just becoming too expensive to have to keep starting all over again. Not only that, I'm guessing a G9 figure will probably be much more system resource demanding and I don't want to invest in upgrades for my system anytime soon.

    The refitting easily would be awesome.  But in the mean time I'm in the process of using Sickle Yeilds clothing converters to move my g3 and g2 clothing over to g8.  Of the 1500 files I tried to move over of the g3 only 1000 of them moved and some of the shoes did not look right.  I'm going to delete those and try it again.  I tried to force thing but it tends to lock up daz so pretty much if it doesn't move over easy I will either try to use the built in clothing adaptors or live without it.  It was a very nice feeling though to open up my smart content wardrobe menu and see all those items that I can now use on g8 with ease.  There will be a whole lot of kit bashing going on for me now that it's easier. 

    And I feel you about system resources.  I have a nice computer and finally got an nvidia card, which makes it run so much better, but it is still slow because it uses my rather small ssd main drive and with all the content I own it's a monster of a program. 

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    Imago said:

    With Genesis8 stuff on the store since a while now, I'm still using Genesis1/2 because they are the only figures that can actually been animated properly!
    Genesis 3/8 are ATROCIOUS with those broken IKs and those extra bones are a real nightmare.

    I could consider Genesis9 only if it's possible animate it and I'm not talking about AniBlocs or external BVHs (I don't use them at all) but truly posing the figure without seeing it suddenly jump to some Kamasutra-like position because of the pinned foot or some faulty rotation limit. And if they have a less messy rigging. AND if it's one single figure for both genders. AND MAINLY if it can be registered correctly in the Puppeteer, more than an half of the values are ignored right now and when you recall a pose, the figure ends with completely wrong values.

    Please please please let it be so.  I did make a couple of nice animations with g8 but they were very short and I got frustrated with how long they took to render.  There are a lot of releases of animation sets for g8 now but I stopped buying them due to the load on my system resources.  I know I will eventually want to make some book trailers but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    wolf359 said:

    "The inevitable truth of this scenario is that sooner or later you 
    come to realize that you will need to produce at least some of
     your final content on your own. You'll find that as time passes
     more of your stuff is made by you. Which is good because it means 
    that your skills are increasing. But the homework needs to be done, 
    which is not fun, but is cheaper than buying everything."

    You are correct, of course 
    However My completely unscientific,anecdotal
    observation would seem to indicate that only a small relatively fixed minority of us will ever become 
    Genesis content creators*

    *FYI, I define "content creation as the ability to model complete clothing outfits,make simple props
     and sculpt custom figure morphs at a minimum. 
    skinbuilder can take care of making new skins IMHO.

     

    Many"threaten" to do it, as soon as 64 bit Hexagon stabilizes
    or blender 2,8 is released or when people go back to PDF tutorials
    beause they dislike video  instruction etc etc.

    Modeling your own content is total liberation and allows you to pick any generation
    and stay with it indefinately.
    For me that G2 M/F ( and a few G3 males)

    Sadly Very few will ever enjoy this blissful state of self empowerment.

     

     

     

    "It's quite difficult to develop a new figure while being tethered to figures of the past. Say we did decide that backward compatibility was important, at what point do we implement the requirement for said compliance, at the beginning of the process, or at the end?
    If we set out on day one trying to retain total backward compatibility, that means we cnanot completely move forward from the shortcomings of the previous figure. This limits in many ways the types of improvements we can indeed make on the new figure.
    If we decide to freely design the figure to new standards, and then at the end of the process find ways to translate it into backward compatibility, that will then be a rather painful process for someone to iron out the kinks, a conversion that like any other is unliklely
     to be 100% efficient and accurate.
    No matter how you slice it, seems to me that backward 
    compatibility is necessary, but it cannot take supreme precedent 
    over all other considerations. If so, then there will be no growth."

    Again you speak the undeniable truth good Sir.

    Anyone who wishes to examine a textbook,showcase example of the long term effects
    of giving backward compatibilty with  the content you purchased over a decade ago,
    ,priority over technological advancement,
    need look no further than the Poser content market.

    There is a three+ year old active thread over at "rosity"
    titled "Why are you still using V4?".

    The parrallells to some of the posts in this thread are striking.
    Except that ,unlike the poser market, the Daz studio/ Genesis content market
    will dispense with "backwards compatibility" and move forward
    as Daz  clearly understands how this commercial market actually works in the real world.

    The problem is, where do we start?  And doesn't this mean investing in yet more software?  Then we spend a year or two becoming competent enough in that software in order to create clothing, or for me hair, which could be spent creating postwork art in photoshop that leaves us really satisfied.  Unless you are making games, or comic books, or graphic novels, or a series with the exact same character and outfit, or animation, there really is no need to have an absolutly perfect render.  In my case, I need to do series with the same character, and possibly a comic book.  Since I can not find the hair I want that is going to mean I will be making it,  Eventually.  So, again, where do I start? 

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    nicstt said:
    kameneko said:

    Well, my PC still doesn't fully use the Gen 8, if the Gen 9 will be even heavier I couldn't use it. I'd be happy, because Gen 8 stuff would be cheaper.

    With the current trend, we probably already have most of our content converted for Gen 8, and we would have some converters for Gen 9, but it would be a big expense! Considering Male and Female versions for hair and clothes, a universal version for UVs and poses, plus the basic morphs, it would be more than 100$, just to access our previous content...so what I would really like, would be to see those converters included...but I know it won't happen, because Daz is free, and that way there would be less profits from the store (everyone would buy old products for a lower price, without considering the developing cost for those new tools).

    I'm not into animation for now, so if it focused on that, I would gladly skip Gen 9.

    What could they already change? Skins? Morphs? Did the technology really improve this much in 2 years?

    But honestly I can tell the difference between G3 and G8, and everything before that looks almost prehistoric to me...but I've just started, and I went with G8 because I did not have any older content. Yet now I'm buying old clothes etc. because of the converters.

    It isn't the figure per se; Genesis 8 has fewer vertices (a less dense mesh) than V4. The textures are likely the cause, although ramping up Sub D can cause issues.

    To get some improved performance; turn down sub d on viewport, and have it as low as needed on renders. Reduce textures sizes (there is a script and a product, although simple enough to do manually - but time-consuming).

    Render Settings > Optimisation > Speed/Ram. Chose Speed. Ram is useful when it doesn't quite fit on the card. (Smaller resolution renders?)

    Preferences (F2) > Interface > Display Optimisation > Best.

    There's another setting too iirc, but can't recall - hopefull someone else will add it.

    Is there a post somewhere with a tutorial on how to do all this?  Most of the time I do not need a high res render and it would be nice to set my defaults up to these settings.  I bought a product that promised faster renders but I then I started physical therapy and lost track of the name.  Now that I'm up and moving around again I'm spending a lot more time in daz and writing.  Speeding up my process would be sooooo helpful.

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    Dave63 said:
    kameneko said:
    Dave63 said:

     Be cool to see Genesis 9 work in an android app based on Daz Studio.

    Android???? How could, in a few years, an ARM chip handle Daz Studio! :O

    Do you mean videogames made using Daz Studio characters?

             There are already poser 1 style apps as well as 3D authoring apps (built on Unity-usually-, but not games) on android now. The selection will only get better and broader as tablets and phones get more powerful. Future proofing is important. It would also lead to a better GLSL render engine, which is something lots of people want in Daz Studio(even on the PC).

     

     

    The idea of doing daz on my phone just makes my eyes hurt.  And I have a large iphone.  Even a pad would be too small since I normally use both of my monitors.  I guess if people want to use it that is fine but this would definitly not be something I will ever use.

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394

    Thanks for all the thoughtful and interesting posts. Sorry for the multiple replies all at one time.  I've been mostly gone for the last few months while I worked on rehabing my foot and back and wrist.  Sitting at my desk or doing much on my phone was just too painful.  I really enjoyed getting in here and reading through all of this.  I can see from the comments that the problem with forward and backward compatibility is more complex than I had thought. 

  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 830

     I have more than enough human figures of varying  age  and ethnicity. Currently I am only shopping for scenes, props, shaders and lighting products.  With the next iteration of the genesis figures likely to hit in July of this year, theres really no point in further investing in figures until I see what Genesis 9 brings to the table. If we dont get the backwards compatibility that I so love about Genesis 8 I wont be buying into Genesis9 very heavily-if at all- until I start seeing conversion utilities.  It just makes no financial sense unless something about Genesis 9 is utterly and completely groundbreaking which honestly I cant see happening

Sign In or Register to comment.