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Genesis 9 delayed until at least 2020. Will you be buying it?

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  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,677
    edited July 2018

    I can deal with Genesis 9 coming sooner rather than later. I render men and each generation Michael has offered some improvements and at least if they restart the cycle sooner we might see a new male bundle that I can use out in 6 months. 

    So that would be nice to see Michael 9 in less than a year.

    Post edited by Serene Night on
  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,837
    edited July 2018

    "  Now with G8 we are actually seeing new and unique characters never introduced before which to use, requires having to purchase all the base morphs and merchant resources all over again (and some of the latter are still not available) as they are not backwards compatible to G3.  "

    The Daz business model depends on you people buying this content over and over again with every figure release.
    It pays for further development of the core application.

    Although I dont have any need for the new figures in my animated films,

    I think it  is wise of  Daz to stop simply recycling those same characters such as Bethany,Olympia, Aiko etc,
     it keeps things fresh.

    Post edited by wolf359 on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    wolf359 said:

    "  Now with G8 we are actually seeing new and unique characters never introduced before which to use, requires having to purchase all the base morphs and merchant resources all over again (and some of the latter are still not available) as they are not backwards compatible to G3.  "

    The Daz business model depends on you people buying this content over and over again with every figure release.
    It pays for further development of the core application.

    Although I dont have any need for the new figures in my animated films,

    I think it  is wise of  Daz to stop simply recycling those same characters such as Bethany,Olympia, Aiko etc,
     it keeps things fresh.

    I agree but I think they were under some pressure to do so. I seem to remember various threads here with users begging for something different, some older characters and a departure from the glamour scene. "Normal people" was, for a long time, my mantra. Unfortunately it came with G8 and all my investment in morphs, add-ons, etc., went into G3 and largely remans there. As you say, they try to "encourage" us to spend again on those same packages for each new generation which feels a little cynical to me. What alternative business model they could think up is beyond me - I don't have a commercial bone in my body - but the character variation is at least a step in the right direction.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,320

    Opinion, not speculation, but my opinion is DAZ's future lies in clothing, architecture, and natural environments via being mostly moneymakers from catalogue sales and not so much new characters as this technology plateaus. Clothing needs to be handled as fastly and easily other software that I've seen handles draping clothing. Same with hair.

    Eventually DAZ Studio needs to handle jiggly fat, jiggly muscles, elastic rubbery expressive faces, natural hair and ability to modify hair, skin, and eye colors for every subset of basic phenotypes easily and when that time comes there is really just exceedingly detailed uniquely sculpted faces and bodies and the associated changes to texture sets to match the age and phenotype of the sculpts...so basically Facegen with extra defining sculpts & texture work. I don't think that's enough to be expanding sales much, so clothing, clothing, clothing and clothing that can feed future catalogue sales and that is accurate and realistic as all get out to real world clothing. I don't think that generic rehashes of 'Casualwear for G3F', 'Casualwear for G3M' in such an sales enviroment cuts it anymore though. I think new clothing needs to strive to be historically accurate, even if it's 2018 civilan clothing, so that the catalogue can be very specific about the clothing styles and time periods in individual products when people search for them. Mostly because DAZ Studio itself has fallen behind others with regards to being state of the art for 3D hobbiests.

    DAZ 3D needs to modernize technology and ease animation methods in DAZ Studio to be better at it than multiple well known competitors. Personally, I'd love to animate in DAZ Studio but it's event loop for the viewports is not good enough to, so with all the lag that's a non-starter for sustained effects of serious animation using DAZ Studio (I'm used texture shaded in my viewports not iRay preview by the way).

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    Just to be clear, the following responses to quoted comments are my own opinions.

    nonesuch00 said:

    It might come next year I'd guess, but it will need much bigger improvements than the Genesis 3 to Genesis 8 jump for me personally to do the 'upgrade process' meaning me buying the utilities, aging, child, ..., and so on once again. The way I see it Genesis 9 can't make such a jump without massive technology capability improvements in DAZ Studio itself. I will be very interested to see Genesis 9.

    As stated earlier in the thread, (and in numerous other threads,) since the release of Genesis, Daz has been releasing a new generation every two years. Assuming they follow that pattern, Genesis 9 Female/Victoria 9 would be released in June 2019.

    FSMCDesigns said:

    man I hope not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sad

    I can't even begin to count how many times I said that about G8 in the months leading up to release of Victoria 8. When you think about it, so many of the "8" pro bundles are of new "named" figures, (Alexandra, Edward, Ollie, Edie, Floyd, and Mabel, for example,) that are more mature and less perfect than the typical base figure of previous generations. There is no reason, IMO, these figures couldn't have been released as G3. That would have allowed Daz to hone the tech in generation 8, and push the release out by a year or more.

    BeeMKay said:

    I also bought those exatraordinary characters for G8, but otherwise, haven't made the jump to G8, i.e. not clothing wise. Again, I make exceptions for extraordinary stuff. But as things are, I have even cut down on buying PC+ items for G8. My workhorses are G2&G3 at the moment.

    So, G9... I'll probably do the same as with G8, unless there's some blow away things, I'll just sit it out. I'm thinking about investing that money into Marvelous Designer instead, and finally start to put all those tutorials into practice.

    I set aside the money for an MD perpetual license several months ago. I'm only waiting to see if there is a sale on Black Friday this year. (I've read that there was last year, and previous years as well.) 

    Orphanslayer69 said:

    I get vaguely depressed when a new generation comes out because I know that the generation I've dumped hundreds of dollars on is going to be left behind and -in theory- DAZ thinks I'll dump hundreds of dollars more on the new gen, but in reality it just pushes me closer to quitting and going outside and feeling sunshine on my skin.

    Only hundreds? wink I started slow, but soon spent a small fortune on G3 figures and supporting products, (wardrobe, hair, poses, expressions, utilities, etc.) I spent "hundreds" almost every month. I still refuse to buy Victoria 8. I did pick up both the head and body morphs for G8F when I could get them for free. I have also purchased a number of "8" pro bundles, but most of those are male, and frequently purchased because @DarwinsMishap released a great character that required the 8 figure as a base.

    Toonces said:

    Hmm, I hope G9 comes soon because G3/8 will get cheaper.

    Plus G3 seems to be getting a lot more support in it's old age than previous generations. New stuff still released for it. Hopefully the same will be true for G8 once G9 comes out. G3 and G8 are so compatible, I can usually buy stuff for either one and use interchangeably.

    With so many of us being vocal about still using G3, it seems to be in the PAs' best interest to support both generations when feasible. Even now, I'm more likely to purchase a product that supports both generations, (G3 and G8,) and even more so if it supports both generations and both genders! (Thank you so much for that, @RedzStudio!)

    Bottom line for me is, I won't be investing in G9 nearly as much as I did with G8; and I invested far less in G8 than I did with G3.

    However, I'm pretty sure Daz is attracting new customers all the time; For next year's newbies, Genesis 9 will not be replacing thousands of dollars of previously purchased content…
    laugh

     

     

     

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,252
    marble said:
    wolf359 said:

    "  Now with G8 we are actually seeing new and unique characters never introduced before which to use, requires having to purchase all the base morphs and merchant resources all over again (and some of the latter are still not available) as they are not backwards compatible to G3.  "

    The Daz business model depends on you people buying this content over and over again with every figure release.
    It pays for further development of the core application.

    Although I dont have any need for the new figures in my animated films,

    I think it  is wise of  Daz to stop simply recycling those same characters such as Bethany,Olympia, Aiko etc,
     it keeps things fresh.

    I agree but I think they were under some pressure to do so. I seem to remember various threads here with users begging for something different, some older characters and a departure from the glamour scene. "Normal people" was, for a long time, my mantra. Unfortunately it came with G8 and all my investment in morphs, add-ons, etc., went into G3 and largely remans there. As you say, they try to "encourage" us to spend again on those same packages for each new generation which feels a little cynical to me. What alternative business model they could think up is beyond me - I don't have a commercial bone in my body - but the character variation is at least a step in the right direction.

    ....maybe we need a "reverse version" of GenX where one can transfer G8 characters and morphs to G3.

  • Show not TellShow not Tell Posts: 206
    ghosty12 said:
    Orphanslayer69 said:

    I get vaguely depressed when a new generation comes out because I know that the generation I've dumped hundreds of dollars on is going to be left behind and -in theory- DAZ thinks I'll dump hundreds of dollars more on the new gen, but in reality it just pushes me closer to quitting and going outside and feeling sunshine on my skin.

    I know your pain, ite gets rather annoying pooring vast amounts of money, on buying content for a base figure only to have any new content for that base figure dry up, when a entirely new base figure product line gets released it can sometimes get very disheartening..

     

    not a just a new generation but then your content becomes obsolete because the old delight stuff you have cannot be used because everything new only comes out with iray, it's like "oh, i have a scene but now i have to buy an entire new scene because blah blah blah"

  • KitsumoKitsumo Posts: 1,216
    zombietaggerung said:

    Don't say that too loudly, someone may actually believe it. >_>

    I actually did google the i10 2000kk and then I read the rest of that sentence. He got me. Well played, sir.

    Oh well, at least I learned something about the Hyundai i10 and Interstate 10 stretching from Santa Monica to Jacksonville. You don't fail as long as you learn something, right? I keep telling myself that.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    kyoto kid said:
    marble said:
    wolf359 said:

    "  Now with G8 we are actually seeing new and unique characters never introduced before which to use, requires having to purchase all the base morphs and merchant resources all over again (and some of the latter are still not available) as they are not backwards compatible to G3.  "

    The Daz business model depends on you people buying this content over and over again with every figure release.
    It pays for further development of the core application.

    Although I dont have any need for the new figures in my animated films,

    I think it  is wise of  Daz to stop simply recycling those same characters such as Bethany,Olympia, Aiko etc,
     it keeps things fresh.

    I agree but I think they were under some pressure to do so. I seem to remember various threads here with users begging for something different, some older characters and a departure from the glamour scene. "Normal people" was, for a long time, my mantra. Unfortunately it came with G8 and all my investment in morphs, add-ons, etc., went into G3 and largely remans there. As you say, they try to "encourage" us to spend again on those same packages for each new generation which feels a little cynical to me. What alternative business model they could think up is beyond me - I don't have a commercial bone in my body - but the character variation is at least a step in the right direction.

    ....maybe we need a "reverse version" of GenX where one can transfer G8 characters and morphs to G3.

    I think the problem with that would be that the HD would not be transfered. I believe that has always been the case with any morph/character transfer between generations and these new G8 characters seem to be HD heavy.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,252

    ...that's another reason.  I have an older system so I avoid HD because it is more taxing on resources.

    That's a real shame as many of these characters are what people like myself have been wanting to see for years.

  • PedroCPedroC Posts: 198

    I think the problem it's not Genesis 9 in 2019, the problem it's Genesis 10 only two years later. Why to want G9 in 2019 if you can have G10 in 2021?.

  • XenomorphineXenomorphine Posts: 2,421
    edited July 2018

    Genesis 2 had HD. Genesis 3 had Iray usually built directly into whatever came out. Genesis 8... Well, there's dForce, but that should just as easily be able to be retroactively built into previous clothing, couldn't it?

    The only reason I obtain Genesis 8 products is if there's a G8-only character which is somehow critical to my needs. Genesis 3 is performing perfectly well for my projects; the only thing lacking is dForce for most of my existing clothing assets, but that isn't an effect which is really G8-related.

    So, a big thank you to those who are still creating poses, props and more for the G3 line! It's hugely appreciated and certainly guarantees I'm a lot more likely to spend money on any! Those let me combine them with so many more things I already have.

    Post edited by Xenomorphine on
  • DaWaterRatDaWaterRat Posts: 2,885

    I never really got into Genesis 8.  Not because I didn't want to, but because I haven't had the money at the right times to invest much beyond the basic morphs.  However, the backwards compatability of the skin textures and (with some work) clothing has kept my interest and I'm perfectly happy to get Genesis 8 stuff to use on my Genesis 3 figures, and hope to incorporate more and more Genesis 8 characters into my work.

    Moving to Genesis 9 ... it will happen eventually.  The question really is how late in the Genesis 9 cycle will it happen?  If there's a real, readily obvious improvement - probably one that takes advantage of tech improvements in Daz Studio - or if basic compatability (as it is currently between genesis 3 and genesis 8) can be kept, then odds are sooner rather than later.  If, like between Genesis 2 and Genesis 3, it requires a near complete start over for not a lot of immediatly easily visible improvement... more likely to be later... like around when Genesis 10 comes out.

  • VisuimagVisuimag Posts: 571

    I'd bet on 'YES'.

  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 830

    I feel pretty certain that G9 will happen on the usual timeline.  I am hoping that we continue to see more of the interesting characters that we have seen with the G8 cycle.  I am also hoping for improvements in realism.  I also hope for the same (or better) levels of backwards compatibility that we have with G8 but we shall see what happens in that regard.  

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,837
    edited July 2018

    "Genesis 9 or 10 will have to be ground breaking with little to no backwards compatibility to be fiscally sound going forward" 

     


    I dont agree that this is an absolute.cool
    One cannot ignore the psychology of  "newness" factor
    and not being "left behind" .

    Apple inc, did not become more valuable than Exxon mobile
    by making every new Iphone incompatible with existing Apps.
    people scamper out and buy the newest Iphone because its....
    new.yes

    also Smart phone users typically dont have to worry about the near immediate abandonment by the content/app devs of their device that was State of the art 22 months ago.

    People will choose to buy into G9 for the convenience of having G9 content that just works straight away without having to manually force fit it onto a previous generation figure.
    Also the figure specific Character bundles are not really backwards compatible via any Manual method I have seen presented here.

     


    "Think about this, what would we all be using and doing right for for 3D if DAZ couldn't afford to stay in business?"

     

    I personally would not be affected in the slightest if Daz inc
    vanished from the earth this very evening.surprise
    I have My entire computer Data/OS Systems backed up including my installers for the program itself.

    In fact I have already literally stopped At DS 4.8 with no plans to ever upgrade as I am certain DS will never have the animation tool set to supplant  my current & future external solutions.

    And ,of  course, I am already supporting the figure generation of my choice with clothing content & custom morphs independant of Daz or its PA's and I will soon be making my own complete environment sets as well
    ( Due respect to Stonemason)angel

    so ,after a fashion, Daz inc may as well have stopped existing for all I am literally getting from them at this point.

    Post edited by wolf359 on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,320

    Apple does remove old apps, stops support of old versions of iOS and old Apple HW, and has even disallowed the possibility of any further 32bit app deployment or support. It is Microsoft that has always bent over backwards for supporting old SW and HW but even they eventually move on. 

  • Siciliano1969Siciliano1969 Posts: 433

    Bring on Genesis 9!  I'm ready!

  • SaldazSaldaz Posts: 168
    PedroC said:

    I think the problem it's not Genesis 9 in 2019, the problem it's Genesis 10 only two years later. Why to want G9 in 2019 if you can have G10 in 2021?.

    But why would go for G10 in 2021 when you can get G11 in 2023?

    :)

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,837
    nonesuch00 said:

    Apple does remove old apps, stops support of old versions of iOS and old Apple HW, and has even disallowed the possibility of any further 32bit app deployment or support.

    Indeed they do over the long term 
    however with genesis the Content support
    Ceases alot faster for the previous generations than  doe App support for previous phone models
    particularly on the android platform where many indie appmakers  tend to support  much older android OS and hardware for longer periods.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,782
    Saldaz said:
    PedroC said:

    I think the problem it's not Genesis 9 in 2019, the problem it's Genesis 10 only two years later. Why to want G9 in 2019 if you can have G10 in 2021?.

    But why would go for G10 in 2021 when you can get G11 in 2023?

    :)

    I think I'll wait for Genesis 15 in 2031 myself. wink

  • NosiferretNosiferret Posts: 339

    If it happens, which I'm sure it will at some point next year or year after that. I will do what I've done since Genesis rolled out and I was happy with V4 and not looking to convert at the time. I'll buy the basics, the head/body morphs since the basic shape has been coming with Studio. I might not use the new shape immediately, but at least I'll have the basics since it is rare to get the morphs at such a low cost again than when they first roll out. I believe I didn't start using the Genesis line until G2 was on a big discount Fast Grab style and I couldn't resist and then it made me tinker around with it and I haven't looked twice at V4 & Poser since once I saw the clothes fitting the form without an hour of me playing with dials, I was hooked!...I've only just picked up Victoria 8 and a few other ones in the last month since they came out. This market kind of caters to the OMG gotta buy it now people when stuff rolls out. It's on sale today for 30% off, few months down the road it will be 50% off or even 70%...so while I kind of fell into that type of market trend back when I started, I've slowed down mainly because I don't have the cash flow I used to have, so there are times once in a blue moon when something will be a buy it now but majority I'll flag with a wishlist to pick up later if/when it hits the bigger % off. so I've mellowed out in my buying habits. If majority of buyers are they same, they might slow up their releases until they can offer something with lots of updates/advances over churning out product after product and run the risk of burn out. I do think we might seen an increase as dforce really takes off, I'm putting all hair purchases on hold and looking at buying nothing but dforce hairs now...so I can see that being some kind of development, dforce that is. I would love to see something like Marvellous Designer in Studio as dforce takes off this might be a decent update to Studio. I really haven't even scratched the surface of Studio with my poking around. 

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    ghosty12 said:
    FSMCDesigns said:

    man I hope not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sad

    Given the 2 year cycle we have been experiencing since the release of Genesis, would not be surprised at all to see Genesis 9 next year.. :(  And well I have only just started getting into Genesis 3 because of https://www.daz3d.com/fantasy-creature-creator-hd-morph-pack-for-genesis-3-female-19.. And the only reason I have not gone full tilt into Genesis 8 is very much due to there being no https://www.daz3d.com/fantasy-creature-creator-hd-morph-pack-for-genesis-3-female-19 for Genesis 8..

    So if Genesis 9 does come out next year it will be a case of wait and see what they do..

    I’d love to have that morph pack too.  But I’m glad I made the switch. I find g8 so much easier to work with and far easier to move older clothing over to.  Ive also enjoyed the more interesting characters that have come out recently.  Going to also agree with everyone who posted about a significant upgrade to Daz itself.  I’m more interested in that than a new set of characters.  

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    Kitsumo said:
    th3Digit said:

    just stay a generation behind and grab stuff on sales yes

    I may start doing that. Floyd and Mabel are too adorable to pass up. My biggest gripe with Daz is that every generation we get 20 or so variations on the same Barbie and Ken dolls. Seeing characters that are older, shorter, multi cultured, heavier, or even made of felt is a refreshing change.

    Agree about the Barbie and Ken thing.  That was my biggest gripe about g3.  

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    wolf359 said:

    As an animator I consider the Daz genesis platform to have Peaked with Genesis 2.

    In light of Wendy's brilliant Discovery  regarding
    retargeting  G1 motion data to G3, with no external software,
    I am glad that  I  did get a few Characters for G3
    (Ivan &fat George HD)

    I remain on Daz studio 4.8 because ,at this point ,Daz studio is merely a brief stop in my pipeline
    for wardrobe/morph changes and import of Motion Data from Iclone pro before sending my Characters to Lightwave or C4D for final rendering.

    G8 was Dead on Arrival for me
    I imagine G9 will be also.indecision

    Additionally if the new Iclone Character creator 3 figures are as Good as they Look in the Iclone 2018 Roadmap
    I may be replacing Daz studio at least partially as a Character resource for final renders in the near future . 

    What is this “Wendy” trick you speak of?   I’m terribly interested in iclone, primarily because the animation looks amazing.  The only reason I haven’t bought  it is because of how expensive the software is if you want to import your Daz characters into it.  Wouldn’t it be amazing if Daz raised their animation abilities to that level?  These are the things I dream of. I think dforce gave me hope for some serious professional tool upgrades in Daz. Before that I did not even dare dream of such lofty things. 

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    FSMCDesigns said:

    NEWS FLASH!

    Intel has just released their i10 2000kk cpu clocking in at 8.4 GHz just in time to be paired with nvidias latest GTX 2090ti with onboard 100 GB DDR10.

    To celebrate this grand occasion DAZ is releasing Genesis 9, the latest in their flagship figure line. With 175K of polygons, 8 levels of subdivision and advanced proprietary rigging that won't work anywhere else but in DAZ's flagship posing and animation app, Daz Studio, along with zero backwards compatibility to ensure quality standards with each new character that is released.

    With this kind of unprecedented detail this figure is by far the more realistic figure ever released for Daz Studio and the only figure you will ever need. devil

    Lol. Thanks for the scare. 

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    Xenomorphine said:

    Genesis 2 had HD. Genesis 3 had Iray usually built directly into whatever came out. Genesis 8... Well, there's dForce, but that should just as easily be able to be retroactively built into previous clothing, couldn't it?

    The only reason I obtain Genesis 8 products is if there's a G8-only character which is somehow critical to my needs. Genesis 3 is performing perfectly well for my projects; the only thing lacking is dForce for most of my existing clothing assets, but that isn't an effect which is really G8-related.

    So, a big thank you to those who are still creating poses, props and more for the G3 line! It's hugely appreciated and certainly guarantees I'm a lot more likely to spend money on any! Those let me combine them with so many more things I already have.

    Dforce for g3... drooling.  And if for g3, then g2, g1, and gen4.  ::Sigh::  Now I have a new thing to dream about. 

  • TryhardTryhard Posts: 166
    wolf359 said:

    As an animator I consider the Daz genesis platform to have Peaked with Genesis 2.

    In light of Wendy's brilliant Discovery  regarding
    retargeting  G1 motion data to G3, with no external software,
    I am glad that  I  did get a few Characters for G3
    (Ivan &fat George HD)

    I remain on Daz studio 4.8 because ,at this point ,Daz studio is merely a brief stop in my pipeline
    for wardrobe/morph changes and import of Motion Data from Iclone pro before sending my Characters to Lightwave or C4D for final rendering.

    G8 was Dead on Arrival for me
    I imagine G9 will be also.indecision

    Additionally if the new Iclone Character creator 3 figures are as Good as they Look in the Iclone 2018 Roadmap
    I may be replacing Daz studio at least partially as a Character resource for final renders in the near future . 

    Could you tell me more about this: "retargeting  G1 motion data to G3, with no external software"?

  • freni-kynfreni-kyn Posts: 394
    nonesuch00 said:

    Opinion, not speculation, but my opinion is DAZ's future lies in clothing, architecture, and natural environments via being mostly moneymakers from catalogue sales and not so much new characters as this technology plateaus. Clothing needs to be handled as fastly and easily other software that I've seen handles draping clothing. Same with hair.

    Eventually DAZ Studio needs to handle jiggly fat, jiggly muscles, elastic rubbery expressive faces, natural hair and ability to modify hair, skin, and eye colors for every subset of basic phenotypes easily and when that time comes there is really just exceedingly detailed uniquely sculpted faces and bodies and the associated changes to texture sets to match the age and phenotype of the sculpts...so basically Facegen with extra defining sculpts & texture work. I don't think that's enough to be expanding sales much, so clothing, clothing, clothing and clothing that can feed future catalogue sales and that is accurate and realistic as all get out to real world clothing. I don't think that generic rehashes of 'Casualwear for G3F', 'Casualwear for G3M' in such an sales enviroment cuts it anymore though. I think new clothing needs to strive to be historically accurate, even if it's 2018 civilan clothing, so that the catalogue can be very specific about the clothing styles and time periods in individual products when people search for them. Mostly because DAZ Studio itself has fallen behind others with regards to being state of the art for 3D hobbiests.

    DAZ 3D needs to modernize technology and ease animation methods in DAZ Studio to be better at it than multiple well known competitors. Personally, I'd love to animate in DAZ Studio but it's event loop for the viewports is not good enough to, so with all the lag that's a non-starter for sustained effects of serious animation using DAZ Studio (I'm used texture shaded in my viewports not iRay preview by the way).

    Yes yes and yes on all those lovely things you want them to work on.  Total agreement.  Unles 9 is truely out of the box stellarly different and amazing.

  • wolf359wolf359 Posts: 3,837
    edited July 2018

    @freni-kyn

    @Tryhard

    please see this thread:

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/3675321/

    Post edited by wolf359 on
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