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In the end, it's all about what feature upgrades the new figures come with, but it's going to take something truly earthshaking for me to invest in a major way anytime soon. I found the technical benefits of the G8s to be very minor and even though I have all the base figures for G8, I still find myself using the G3s more.
...yeah almost clicked the "Proceed to Checkout" button when i had both the G8M Head and Body Morphs (PC+ for a day), Floyd 8. the Good Guys characters for G8M and Monty in the cart, but wasn't sure about the status of my next SS benefit deposit (won't go into detail for TOS sake), so removed them all. Would have been my first major G8 purchase. Wish there were characters like that for G3M.
In all honesty, I really don't know what it is. I couldn't tell you specifically why, but I prefer the G3 models as well. Since I'm quite new to Daz I can't say I bought G3 first and then graduated to G8 - I bought them both at the same time whilst trying to get to grips with the whole Geneis hierarchy and Michael/Victoria 456 malarky. Maybe because there was more selection, better clothes, nicer skins...who knows, just a gut feeling I guess.
I started off with V4 and M4 and shortly after I moved to G2 and bought quite a bit of content. When G3 came out is when I really began pumping in the bucks. Afterwards, G8 came out and again I've been spending a lot of coin on content. In conclusion, unless they make it so the previous generations of clothing, props, etc really fit properly and unless we are able to use G3 and G8 skins I am gonna have to go with no. It's just becoming too expensive to have to keep starting all over again. Not only that, I'm guessing a G9 figure will probably be much more system resource demanding and I don't want to invest in upgrades for my system anytime soon. I think what would be great if DAZ came up with their own rendering engine in the same nature as 3delight but consists of GPU support. As it stands, 3delight has become a thing of the past for me because of the lack of GPU support. It's just faster to render with iray when you have a decent graphics card. If 3delight ever got GPU support I would totally use it a lot. It does some things better than iray does.
With Genesis8 stuff on the store since a while now, I'm still using Genesis1/2 because they are the only figures that can actually been animated properly!
Genesis 3/8 are ATROCIOUS with those broken IKs and those extra bones are a real nightmare.
I could consider Genesis9 only if it's possible animate it and I'm not talking about AniBlocs or external BVHs (I don't use them at all) but truly posing the figure without seeing it suddenly jump to some Kamasutra-like position because of the pinned foot or some faulty rotation limit. And if they have a less messy rigging. AND if it's one single figure for both genders. AND MAINLY if it can be registered correctly in the Puppeteer, more than an half of the values are ignored right now and when you recall a pose, the figure ends with completely wrong values.
Hmm, I with you on most of those points, but a lot of the G8s are wonderfully unique - I snapped up the first few with a couple of exceptions but none since Zelara - On my system, and especially on the BETA, Studio is much more reliable on G8 than G2 or G3 (I run Daz on Wine in 'Linux which adds a whole host of complex problems).
I seem to generally pick up Michael and Victoria, and Monique and Darius, and I'm an Olympia fan for each generation that carries them, but I'm not sure I'll continue that with 9, I am inclined to save the cash for the more unique figures.
Personally, I was grumpy about G3 (particularly with big obstacles to using older textures).
And then G8 came out and I'm like ... oh GREAT all these purchases ALL OVER AGAIN just to make 100 young white chicks.
Then Floyd and Edie and George again and ... huh!
G3 and G8 have included a bunch of figures that have made me VERY happy to keep up with the evolution of Genesis figures. Centaur 7, Kimo 7, Floyd, Ollie... plus all the increasingly high quality weird other stuff (from Rawart, Hellboy, Josh Crockett, and many others), I am really curious to see what comes with G9.
a blended weight version would be nice.
and HD morphs translated to a dsf file carrara could read.
If you had asked me six months ago about G9 I probably would have said "sure, what the heck, crank it up." At this point I'm not so sure. There will have to be some MAJOR advancements for me to bite. I've got more clothes than I can think about for Generation 8 particularly with Riversofts scripts for upgrading the older clothing. Same thing with the hair. There's a bunch of G8 characters I really like, DAZ finally got off the "pretty white girl" kick with it. Expressions can be reset easily, they pose well, and I have a bunch of cash tied up in them. All up the line DAZ has come up with some major advancements in figures, we will have to see what G9 has in store, but it's probably going to take a lot to get me to move off of G8. I'm not in a hurry to get on that bicycle again.
Absolutely not. In fact I think every generation since Genesis has been a mistake due to going back to the M/F model rather than the single gender figure which forces you to buy everything twice.
Not a chance I would even consider buying it unless there is full, 100% backward and forward compatability. Based on the past, not likely to happen.
And when I mention compatability, I am refering to all poses (including expressions), all UVs, all clothing items and all morphs. Will not accept solutions that require additional purchases of add-ons or endless hours spent on work-arounds.
I love doing things better, so if Gen 9 has compelling improvements over 8 then bring on Gen 9!
If nothing is changed then it won't be a new figure.
Well, my PC still doesn't fully use the Gen 8, if the Gen 9 will be even heavier I couldn't use it. I'd be happy, because Gen 8 stuff would be cheaper.
With the current trend, we probably already have most of our content converted for Gen 8, and we would have some converters for Gen 9, but it would be a big expense! Considering Male and Female versions for hair and clothes, a universal version for UVs and poses, plus the basic morphs, it would be more than 100$, just to access our previous content...so what I would really like, would be to see those converters included...but I know it won't happen, because Daz is free, and that way there would be less profits from the store (everyone would buy old products for a lower price, without considering the developing cost for those new tools).
I'm not into animation for now, so if it focused on that, I would gladly skip Gen 9.
What could they already change? Skins? Morphs? Did the technology really improve this much in 2 years?
But honestly I can tell the difference between G3 and G8, and everything before that looks almost prehistoric to me...but I've just started, and I went with G8 because I did not have any older content. Yet now I'm buying old clothes etc. because of the converters.
If they can't build a new figure without full forward/backward compatibility, then count me out. Too much time and money is invested in in creating scenes and creating characters for those scenes. Putting the money issue aside for moment, it is a huge disruption in workflow when attempting to adapt new content to an older figure or to adapt a new figure to an existing workflow. Many of us (like me) cannot simply drop whatever work is being done with existing figures in order to merge in brand new figures and content every time DAZ releases a next generation. The workflow barriers are typically encounted with poses, expressions, some material presets, morphs and UVs.
A small example: yesterday I spent an hour adapting a G8 clothing set to G3. After getting it to fit to G3, I then tried using the supplied material presets on the clothing items fitted to G3. I found that the presets are designed for G8 only! Another workaround! More unplanned time consumed!
Now facter in the financial cost of investing in figures, content, materials, poses, compatability tools, etc. whenever a new generation is introduced.
Sometimes it seems that DAZ just doesn't understand how important this compatibility issue is for those of us just trying to create art with this tool.
The inevitable truth of this scenario is that sooner or later you come to realize that you will need to produce at least some of your final content on your own. You'll find that as time passes more of your stuff is made by you. Which is good because it means that your skills are increasing. But the homework needs to be done, which is not fun, but is cheaper than buying everything.
Sure, when one first sets out into 3D art of this kind using Daz Studio and all the lovely premade content the market provides we can crank out renders at reasonable speed. Easy. But over time our needs will change, and become more specific. Unlike V4, most figures dont live long enough to grow an infinite catalogue. At a certain point new content for figures dries up, unless you make your own. Luckily all of Daz's figures even Michael and Vickies 1 and 2 are still compatible with current DS, amazing when you think about it. Daz Studio itself seems fully backward compatible, even though the figures cannot be.
Forgot to add: It's quite difficult to develop a new figure while being tethered to figures of the past. Say we did decide that backward compatibility was important, at what point do we implement the requirement for said compliance, at the beginning of the process, or at the end?
If we set out on day one trying to retain total backward compatibility, that means we cnanot completely move forward from the shortcomings of the previous figure. This limits in many ways the types of improvements we can indeed make on the new figure.
If we decide to freely design the figure to new standards, and then at the end of the process find ways to translate it into backward compatibility, that will then be a rather painful process for someone to iron out the kinks, a conversion that like any other is unliklely to be 100% efficient and accurate.
No matter how you slice it, seems to me that backward compatibility is necessary, but it cannot take suproeme precedent over all other considerations. If so, then there will be no growth.
You are correct, of course
However My completely unscientific,anecdotal
observation would seem to indicate that only a small relatively fixed minority of us will ever become
Genesis content creators*
*FYI, I define "content creation as the ability to model complete clothing outfits,make simple props
and sculpt custom figure morphs at a minimum.
skinbuilder can take care of making new skins IMHO.
Many"threaten" to do it, as soon as 64 bit Hexagon stabilizes
or blender 2,8 is released or when people go back to PDF tutorials
beause they dislike video instruction etc etc.
Modeling your own content is total liberation and allows you to pick any generation
and stay with it indefinately.
For me that G2 M/F ( and a few G3 males)
Sadly Very few will ever enjoy this blissful state of self empowerment.
Again you speak the undeniable truth good Sir.
Anyone who wishes to examine a textbook,showcase example of the long term effects
of giving backward compatibilty with the content you purchased over a decade ago,
,priority over technological advancement,
need look no further than the Poser content market.
There is a three+ year old active thread over at "rosity"
titled "Why are you still using V4?".
The parrallells to some of the posts in this thread are striking.
Except that ,unlike the poser market, the Daz studio/ Genesis content market
will dispense with "backwards compatibility" and move forward
as Daz clearly understands how this commercial market actually works in the real world.
It isn't the figure per se; Genesis 8 has fewer vertices (a less dense mesh) than V4. The textures are likely the cause, although ramping up Sub D can cause issues.
To get some improved performance; turn down sub d on viewport, and have it as low as needed on renders. Reduce textures sizes (there is a script and a product, although simple enough to do manually - but time-consuming).
Render Settings > Optimisation > Speed/Ram. Chose Speed. Ram is useful when it doesn't quite fit on the card. (Smaller resolution renders?)
Preferences (F2) > Interface > Display Optimisation > Best.
There's another setting too iirc, but can't recall - hopefull someone else will add it.
Again, a new figure has to differ in soem way from the old or why bother with it? If it differs then there will almost certainly be a loss of compatibility. A new figure won't stop you using your old content, and Daz will most likely - on past behaviour - provide means for conversion from old to new to soem extent but your demand for 100% compatibility is impossible to meet.
We already know how this is going go. It repeats itself every two years or so. Yes, by all means, if the cost outweighs the benefit, then don't bother with it. There are plenty of non-figure items on my wish list for PAs to do. This focus on next-gen Genesis appears (to my eyes) to be more about money than it does about innovation.
Don't get me wrong, I want innovation and I want new and better content. I have probably purchased as much or more G8 content than average. However, I have refrained from purchasing more than one or two G8 figures (due to lack of forward compatability) and expect that the same will be the case with G9.
Many of us have spent much money/time on content, morphs, materials, poses specific to current and past generations. Why is it that we should not expect that this investment in time and money will carry over to subsequent generations of Genesis? Show me that building-in forward/backward compatability is impossible. The evidence I see suggests that it is possible but we are expected to pay dearly for it in time and money. I see lots and lots of compatability add-ons for sale. The application may be free, but, depending on what one needs to do, making practical use of it can be quite expensive. But I don't mind paying extra for compatability if it really is that (e.g. in attempting to re-use G2 UVs on G3/G8, better expect any solution to be a messy workaround).
As for doing my own modeling, forget it. My interest is in telling stories, not modeling. I have been at this since the tail end of Gen4. I had little interest in modeling in the beginning and have no interest now. Ditto for posing, morph building, texture creation, etc. It pains me every time I purchase G8 content knowing that I am going to lose any one-click capability when I adapt G8 content to pre-G8 characters. And yet, it pains me even more thinking about all the time and money that would go into any attempt to merge G8 (or worse, G9-10-11...) figures into my workflow. Not gonna happen in my shop.
Yes, thanks, I'm already doing everything you've mentioned! ^^
Indeed, when I split a scene in two parts, I manage to use my GPU.
In any case, with my current situation, I wouldn't upgrade to an even newer generation, because like this my system has already met its limit!
...one of my main my reasons for not jumping on the G8 bandwagon.was because I did't see a significant enough change from G3 to for my needs warrant the major expense in purchasing morphs, textures, poses, and plugins (like SBP and Growing Up) all over again. Another part was drawing a line as to development of and "finalising" my own original characters.
G2 to G3 on the other hand was a major change, particularly with regards to the weight map system used along with improved bending and posing. Most of G8's changes were to facial morphs and decreasing the mesh density to benefit animation and game developmentwork, the latter two of which I have no interest in.
The add-ons are not 100% compatibility, though - morphs have to be reprojected in some way, maps may require stretching or compression to fit the new mesh and may, as with pre-Genesis 3 figures, require new mesh in a GeoGraft (which will then lack HD moprhs that are applied to the base figure), clothes have to have their shape adjusted and are likely to lose custom bones, etc. And such things require resources for their creation, it's really not reasonable to expect daz to do all of that in both directions and provide it for free - instead they usually provide the options for bringing old content across, which allow stepwise conversion from even older figures (Geensis 8 of course went beyond this with AutoFit clones for all previous Genesis versions) and leave it up to others to fill in the gaps with tutorials on conversion processes or store products.
Oh, how well I know. For any one character I use in a scene (G1, G2, or G3), I estimate that the ratio of content-not-made-for-figure vs. content-made-for-figure is about 5:1. This means a lot of extra time spent on adapting content to figure. And, typically, G8 content is the most difficult to adapt to older generations. Particularily if it has rigid follow nodes or the content creator decided to make the material presets G8-only. I know of no commercially available G1/G2 clones for G8.
Regarding efforts DAZ has made to provide backward compatability on certain content items via AutoFit clones, I would ask the following: What about figures themselves? What about poses? What about morphs? What about textures?
For example, if I buy one of the G8 figures that DAZ is marketing today, is there going to be an AutoFit clone for that figure when I buy G10 content? The G8 content I buy today might AutoFit to G10, but what about the G8 figure working with G10 content? Given the marginal improvement in my renders, why would I bother investing in a new generation of figures when I know that the work I do with that figure is basically going to be obsoleted in two years?
Given the number of compatability-related products sold in the DAZ store, and given the number of tutuorials created on this subject, I would say that there are a good number of DAZ customers who working through the same sorts of issues that I mention in this thread. I understand that DS is considered a hobbiest tool and that there a lot of people who enjoy working on these issues, making tutorials, etc. I only hope that DAZ is thinking about the rest of us, as well. I am convinced that they can make even more money if they expand their thinking outside the box a bit.
Daz Studio 5 will probably be an exciting product with loads of new bells and whistles with a figure packed with it to take advantage of them.
Always exciting to see shiny new stuff and the trend has been to lighter, tighter meshes with sds levels taking up the slack. Be cool to see Genesis 9 work in an android app based on Daz Studio.
The problem is still that you can either make a figure that is a huge leap forward in capabilities, or make a figure that is 100% backwards compatible with the previous generation. You will have to sacrifice some of one to get the other, and if you want something that is 100% compatible with the current generation of genesis you have... the current generation.
Android???? How could, in a few years, an ARM chip handle Daz Studio! :O
Do you mean videogames made using Daz Studio characters?
Your Ryzen 5 is decent; it could use more RAM. You would likely get good milage from 32GB (16 if you want to save some cash) and a much better card.
8 GB sucks for not much more than basic useage.