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I agree the hobbit thing when to their heads.
Personally, since I have a 50% off coupon, I purchased a years subscription for the advanced version. That being said, the money was to buy me a year of clothing modeling software that I know how to run and gives me time to save up money for other possible option. If I'm going to spend a couple grand on software to do clothing modeling, it has to have many more featured then MD3 offers. My point is, I bought time more than the software.
More bad news: From the FAQ area:
"Can I not use both Basic and Advanced licenses? Or both MD2 and MD3?
A change with MD3 is our "One-Person-One-License" policy. This policy means that users will only be able to use the higher version of the licenses acquired. Hence each subsequent upgrade automatically terminates the rights for use of the previous version - this includes cases for upgrades from MD2 to MD3."
This *really* makes you have to choose! I was looking forward to using both... since each had its good points and bad points.
Unfortunately, with the removal of pressure and wind from the "cheap" version, it just isn't feasible to me to upgrade to MD3. If there hadn't been a loss in features, I'd probably upgrade to the Basic version. But, the Advanced version is just too expensive ... even with the 50% off coupon. My choice is either to upgrade to advanced or save the money toward ZBrush ... which makes more sense to me since I can use it for more than making clothing.
I don't like the subscription model for software either. If you cancel the subscription, you lose the software, right? That's not the case with "purchased" software. I could decide never ever to upgrade Poser or Photoshop or any of the other software on my computer, yet still retain the ability to use that software.
The subscription model would be acceptable to me if once the amount I'd paid in monthly fees equaled the amount it cost to purchase a license, I could cancel the subscription and revert to a purchased license ... with no extra cost. In that case, it would be like making monthly payments toward the purchase price. But, I haven't seen that as an option for any of these companies that are going to a subscription model.
I have always loved MD2, but the company's business approach and language barrier has always been a bit off putting. I don't know whether it's because they are so focused on the fashion industry or because they are a Korean company, but their business approach doesn't make sense to me. Now, with US companies, I get their business approach. I just don't like it.
I'm also disapointed you will no longer be able to use the previous version once you upgrade. Hopefully, they won't change their minds in another few months and disable MD2 if MD3 doesn't produce the money they expect from it. The coupon states it is good until July or August or September 2014 (I forget which month). Though in the forums, people are complaining the 50% off coupon is only good for a month. I don't know if that's a misreading of the coupon expiration date or if that date was changed because of complaints.
...OK so the point about selling creations has been cleared up.
Still not clear as to what the final price is with the coupon if one is upgrading from MD2. Is it 50% off the Full 549$ price or the 274$ Upgrade price (which would make it 139$ and change).
EDIT: (nvm - unable to find link)
Just so you know, it still have pressure and wind after you buy the advanced. I know because I got a year of personal advanced because I know the software and a year buys me "time" to look at other software and well as see where MD goes over the next year. I hope in a year to have money saved up to go with more costly software or standalone MD if I decide to stay with them.
...thank you, please, check.
This says to me that the programme is on their servers, not your system. I never liked that concept. For one, being on line takes more system resources away from the primary job. Second, where do your projects get saved? If it is true, I'm hoping that is just for the subscription plan and not the Perpetual Licence. If it's both, then I'll just stay with MD2.
Sorry for the FUD - I'm unable to find the comment on the MD forums. I'll have to hunt around in my browsing history tomorrow - I _may_ have been reading the posts from 2011 time, I'm not 100% sure now.
If the program is on their server and not your machine then there is no way I would ever upgrade to MD3 if I had MD2. The internet is littered with the ruins of software companies that went bust. If the software is self contained on your machine then at least you'll be able to keep running it if the company itself dies. I have a lot of software I still use even though the company that made it has either gone out of business or been purchased by another company or just been plain ol' discontinued.
Paying for a year's usage for the software is no good if the company goes out of business in 6 months and you can't run the software anymore because it resides on their now defunct servers.
Agreed. Subscription, and "floating" authorisation is the same too - you might have the software, but no way to get past the "Authenticate with Online Server" dialog.
The comment I saw was nothing like that - you DO still have a multi-megabyte download to your machine... I'm hesitant to say any more just at this point (because I need to find that comment >_<).</p>
...that's something I think either Adobe or Autodesk does.
However, on Monday when I fired up MD2, I had to login and go though an authentication procedure which I thought was rather strange as I never had to do that before MD3 was released. Not feeling very comfortable about it.
Why is it some companies do everything possible to confuse, frustrate, manipulate, trick, and alienate customers. I assume they're in business to make money. Why do they make it such an horrific ordeal to buy their products? The most important person with any company is the customer. Everyone working for the company is working for the customer. Every decision made by a company should be for the benifit of the customer. Companies who have the attitude toward customers of "ha ha ha, we're going to force them to buy this on OUR TERMS and at OUR PRICES, regardless of how much they hate it" - go out of business. Today I heard on the CBC that both TARGET and SEARS have literally driven Candian customers out of their Canadian stores because of stupid business decisions, and are both companies are likely going to have to actually close all their Candian stores and leave the country beause they just don't understrand their customers. The Canadian company Research In Motion (RIM) who make the Blackberry have so disasterously mismanaged their company that they are now going to have to go out of business or sell the company.
Marvelous Designer looks marvelous. The company is not marvelous. The company is literally ignoring it's customers.
RIM is the prime example of a company that was hung by their own hubris.
I used to be a loyal Blackberry user. I remember when the Storm was released it was being flouted as the iPhone killer and we were told everything the iPhone did it would be able to do better. When I pointed out on the forums that I was a professional musician and as such I felt the Storm had really let me down when one looked at all the music apps available for the iPhone compared to the number available for the Storm I was told by a marketing representative of RIM on the forum "The Blackberry is a serious tool for serious professionals, if you want toys then maybe you'd be happier with a toy like the iPhone".
I tried to tell them that not everyone who is a professional works in a profession where all they need in a smart phone is the ability to view Microsoft Office spreadsheets and they just couldn't understand what I was saying. It was like I was speaking to them in Martian or something.
I struggled by with the Storm for another 8 months or so then got myself an HTC Android phone. It'll be a cold day in hell before I buy another Blackberry.
Now RIM has laid off hundreds of employees and they're trying to make it a private company so they can sell it off. A year from now I'll be surprised if they're still in business and they will have no one to blame for it but themselves. They felt that since they invented the smartphone that meant they couldn't fail. They dismissed all criticism of their products as the whinings of teenagers and nerds who couldn't possibly be "real" professionals. Their only chance to save their company is to ditch their proprietary OS and make Android devices and to license their BBM for other systems but they'd rather go out of business than admit they have no idea how to make an OS and viable app market.
You're absolutely right. Upper management of companies want CONTROL - CONTROL - CONTROL - of everything, all the time. They don't want to listen to customers, they want to control them. They don't want to listen to employees, they want to control them. They AREN'T in business for the money, they're in business for control. Control is the most important thing on their agendas. Damn profits, damn people, damn criticism, damn the "brand", damn boards-of-directors, damn bankruptcy - they're going to shove their decisions down everyones throats and hold onto their control until the ship sinks out of site.
A lot of companies think that "office workers" are "professionals". If you don't wear a suit and carry a briefcase and sit in a cubicle for 40 hours a week, then you are not a "professional".
I am still trying to figure out if someone should get the enterprise version before the company shuts down.. Maybe one day we all can have it before they shut down and go private and raise the price to 24 thousand like they do the rest.
We havent heard one single comment from someone from the big clientele of Marvelous designer.
So that is the part that is heart wrenching.
They stay away from the forums and Im sure they get what they want...
Maybe they still use Clo3d instead while they laugh at us.
Is there any other affordable software that works on a sewing pattern format like MD?
Forgive my causing this thread to veer off-track, but I thought perhaps someone could enlighten me a bit more about how this product ties-in to a DS workflow....
I watched the 'lessons', and what I got out of it was that one (a) brings in a shape/form (i.e. OBJ file), (b) they wrap sections of 'cloth' around that figure, (c) designate points where these cloth sections are sewn together, and (d) a simulation will drape this clothing, dependent on various attributes like the type of material, etc. Am I close to representing this correctly?
When the OBJ is imported into MD, is the OBJ supposed to be already in a proper 'pose' position and with any body morphs loaded? Otherwise, how could the cloth be properly draped? It seems like opposed to 'traditional' DS/Poser clothing which has morphs pre-built into the clothing, the MD model 'drapes' flat shapes (representing cloth) over a a form(?) The lessons used a figure in a standing position, but I wasn't sure if one runs the simulation in a standing position, but after the simulation, it has some 'smarts' built-in wherein that clothing would properly fit a figure whose pose was changed(?)
After exporting from MD into DS, is there any concept of 'material zones' which can be changed (while in DS?) In the lessons, it showed various fabrics being applied, but each time, they were applied to the ENTIRE individual clothing piece (belt, sleeve, etc.)
How does this clothing 'play' with things like Luxrender, etc, where one assigns materials, etc? Is the MD clothing treated the same as a traditional DS/Poser clothing item?
Again, apologies for veering off the prior direction of this thread... Thanks for any/all answers to these newbie questions....
Ray
Program: Yes... apparently Optitex works in much the same format.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UedzILSR1X0
Affordable: No. Optitex is even more costly than MD. Think on par with Clo3d. Thousands. Which is why only a few people have gotten into making items with it for the markets.
Output: You can use the output either directly as dynamic cloth in Daz Studio, or, (I think) as an obj mesh which might be 'clothified' in Poser, or rigged in the latest D/S perhaps.
I haven't looked too deeply into the Optitex route, simply because I don't 'grok' Daz Studio.
You can import the MD object file into Daz and then use the Transfer Utility to rig it to Genesis. It is just a basic object, no morphs or anything. I have made a few dresses this way.
(Note: For all these answers, I refer to MD2. Which Is no longer available. Which is a great pity for 3d artists. I would not recommend getting MD3, if you are just starting, as several vital functions of MD2 where removed from the 'Basic' level, and the current licensing structure is beyond weird at this stage.)
Program: Yes... apparently Optitex works in much the same format.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UedzILSR1X0
Affordable: No. Optitex is even more costly than MD. Think on par with Clo3d. Thousands. Which is why only a few people have gotten into making items with it for the markets.
Output: You can use the output either directly as dynamic cloth in Daz Studio, or, (I think) as an obj mesh which might be 'clothified' in Poser, or rigged in the latest D/S perhaps.
I haven't looked too deeply into the Optitex route, simply because I don't 'grok' Daz Studio.
...one thing to be aware of, most professional fashion CAD software such as Optitex's 3D Designer is generally not marketed for individual users but for firms with a set minimum of "seats" (workstations/nodes) which is where the high cost comes in. One source I surveyed that purchased the latest version shows a base cost of over 18,000$ for the software and licences for the 10 station minimum. This did not include the cost of training (at about 100$ per hour - minimum of 8 hours required) and the hardware. Breaking that down, the cost of the licence and software comes to just over 1,800$ per workstation, about 1,100$ less than the MD3 Standalone Enterprise licence.
This is also for a full comprehensive software suite that can also be used to digitise, plot, and print full size patterns as well as perform "virtual runway" simulations. MD3 only the covers the 3D modelling part.
They (CLO) also give no details on what is included with the Enterprise Network licence price (like how many nodes does it support?) without having to contact them for details.
This took a fair amount of Net digging as yes, these companies are very coy about giving you the total cost up front. Could find nothing on the minimum node requirement for Clo3D but according to one source I read it costs about 10,000$.
Thanks to you and Wendy for your response(s) - much appreciated!!!!
Have a great weekend!
Ray
Answers to the questions Rosemayr not sure about
If anyone is interested I am in the process of writing a number of tutorials taking users through the Daz/MD workflow. You can find the completed ones here http://dylazuna.deviantart.com/gallery/45478877
If anyone is interested I am in the process of writing a number of tutorials taking users through the Daz/MD workflow. You can find the completed ones here http://dylazuna.deviantart.com/gallery/45478877
video to show how -
http://youtu.be/SabzGVsSRjc
...just posted my questions about the Coupon and Net connection requirement on the forums there. Waiting for replies.
Anyone know if you can still install MD2 if you paid for it? I bought it way back when, and haven't used it in a long time, but I'm definitely not paying for upgrading since they never provided the promised plug in that made me buy it in the first place.
...OK got an answer back on the coupon and it is only good for the subscription version, not the perpetual licence.
Not paying almost 200$ more for an upgrade than I did for the original licence.
The fact they dropped the Small Business licence is also a blow to 3D content creators for the only commercial rights one has with the personal licence is selling though their site. To get the rights to sell patterns/designs on your own or though another broker will cost 2,999$ for an Enterprise Licence (one node).
Yeah, they basically priced themselves out of our market.
So much for Daz and MD getting together.
You can still use MD2. If you want to install it on a different machine to the one you had it on originally, or you didn't activate the license in the first place, then you might need to contact support to have your license reset if it doesn't work automatically. Not sure how helpful they would be as they've effectively withdrawn MD2. If you're on a PC you can get a download for the latest version here http://www.marvelousdesigner.com/community/forum/view.aspx?messageseq=3465
Not sure this is correct. The Personal license wording states quite categorically:
Licensee may sell or distribute its original works and their derivatives in any file formats and Licensor acknowledges that it has no right, title, or interest in and to any such original works and their derivates.
They've removed the wording relating to selling on their website.
Actually, Poser in conjunction with Phil Cooke's Cothing Creator plugin has had this ability to take "patterns" and create dynamic clothing since the days of Poser 5. Granted, it is not as sophisticated as MD and Optitex. In short, you create your pattern in an image editor. This pattern is combined with depth maps to create the cloth inside Poser and then you use the cloth room to complete the cloth sim.