Getting iRay Shaders onto DAZ Figures with Poser Shaders
inquire
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I'm looking for a product that will allow me to take earlier DAZ Figures, such as Michael 4, and even David 3, which have Poser Firefly shaders (materials) on them, because I used them in Poser. Now, if I bring them into DAZ Studio, is there a product that will apply iRay shaders to them and make them look good? Is Anagenisis II, or something like that the way to go? I've heard that product will work with any prop (or figure), but I haven't seen any examples of that. If not that product, then which?
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The smart converters from https://www.daz3d.com/v3digitimes are what I use. Since there's a lot of variance in how the maps were made you still might need to do some tweaking after converting, but the great thing about the converters is they have scripts that allow you to easily tweak the gloss and translucancy so you don't have to manually select the surfaces.
Well, which are you referring to? Would it be The Ultimate Iray Skin Manager? That one says it deals with Generation 4, Genesis, Genesis 2, 3 and 8, but there's no mention of Generation 3 (such as David 3 or Victoria 3). Have you actually used one of these on Generation 4 or Generation 3? If so, did the figure have Poser shaders (materials) on it, or did it have DAZ Studio shaders (3Delight) shaders on it?
For V4/M4 I use https://www.daz3d.com/iray-converter-for-generation-4 to do the conversion and tweak the settings with https://www.daz3d.com/ultimate-iray-skin-manager. I've used them on both 3DL and Poser material characters.
Ah, good. The iRay Converter for Generation 4 I've already purchased. I did use V4/M4 with that product. The second product, the Ultimate iRay Skin Shader is in my wish list. I've also read about the skin shader bundle. Have you tried that.
Now, what about David 3/Michael 3/Victoria 3: Do you have any suggerstions for those characters, particularly if they have the Poser materials on them? (I'm really hoping someone can help me with this.) How about the Anagenesis II, or whatever it's called, which is supposed to work on any prop (or figure, I'd imagine). Does that yield good results?
I don't have V3/M3 so I can't really say. Anagenessis 2 does have a freebie script that lets you apply it to any character which i have done before (some CR2 3DL monsters). The results can be hit or miss in my opinion and since it uses the Iray uber shader in ways that nobody else does it makes it difficult to understand how to tweak the output. There was a long thread on the product that you might want to look through to get a better understanding of what people were able to do with it.
OK, well thank you very much for helping me here, RobotHearArt. Hopefully, someone who does have V3/M3/David3 with Poser materials will be able to chime in. I really think the David 3 materials and characters are the best of the generation 3 set. I have worked on shaders for several characters and turned them into iRay, but it's been quite a process. So, I'm looking for something that will do the job more quickly.
Since I do the conversion often, there are loads of methods... There are products like the iRay Converter which takes seconds.... I like the look of dual lobe i.e... the current generation of Gen 8 texture's translucency so i either use the manual Anagenesis 2 script (you open the folder with the materials and script and the surfaces tab... I apply matching texture such iris to iris... and run the script in 4 min or less) or I use one of the iRay shaders from EcVho and apply to the appropriate surfaces and use the default iRay sgader on those unusual M1/V1 to M3/V3 or David surfaces (3 min or less)... They work beautifully...
I think this is a genesis 1 which I used but the idea is the same:
Since I do the conversion often, there are loads of methods... There are products like the iRay Converter which takes seconds.... I like the look of dual lobe i.e... the current generation of Gen 8 texture's translucency so i either use the manual Anagenesis 2 script (you open the folder with the materials and script and the surfaces tab... I apply matching texture such iris to iris... and run the script in 4 min or less) or I use one of the iRay shaders from EcVho and apply to the appropriate surfaces and use the default iRay sgader on those unusual M1/V1 to M3/V3 or David surfaces (3 min or less)... They work beautifully...
I think this is a genesis 1 which I used but the idea is the same:
Thank you very much, nemesis 10.
By the way, I did try the iRay Converter, but that seems to be for converting 3Delight shaders into iRay ones. My figures have Poser materials on them, so that didn't work well.
I must confess I don't use the iRay converter very often... after doing it a few times, i much prefer manually changing the surfaces and using the iRay shaders collections from EcVho so that if a character is supposed to be pale, they can be really pale or if they are supposed to be tan, they are really tan. Also, i like the that the pores look realistic...
And what do you think of the Anagenesis 2 script? Have you ever used the Anagenesis 2 script and then used one of the shaders collections from EcVho to modify it? Or, does the way Anagenesis 2 changes things make it impossible to modify the figure further with a shader by EcVho or with the Ultimate iRay Skin Shader?
The Smart Converter should still work on poser made characters. I do not have Poser at all, but I do have a number of V4/M4 characters from the Poser era that I converted to Iray. Most of them were done with Smart Converter. I did things differently, though. I use the Smart Converter for Genesis 2. I rarely actually use V4/M4, instead I transfer these to Genesis 2 with the the V4 for Genesis 2 product that allows G2 to use V4 skin, and the Batch Converter (this automates the process.) THEN I use the Smart Converter on them. It does not always give a great result, there are some character skins that do not agree with the settings the Smart Converter uses.
I also have NGS2, and I like it well enough. But it has a tendency to be too dark and harsh for my tastes. Of course you can always tweak things to your liking.
I actually have a few test renders of NGS and Smart Converter in my gallery, so you can compare them. I think I used the default HDRI settings when I did these. These were also done in Daz 4.8, so there may be some variance to how 4.10 handles them. I used the default convert settings.
This is danae Dublin for V4. NGS first
ISC. Note there is a flaw in ISC that can cause eyes to blow out like a camera flash. This only happens when looking at a direct light. To fix simply set the glossy layered of the pupil and iris to 0. At the time I made this, I did not know that fix.
So you can see a difference here, and it really comes down to preference. Both of these products have options to fine tune things, and you can certainly fine tune the settings manually. While I like to detail of NGS, it has a tendency to turn some parts of skin blue, and can make some characters look like they have been bruised or have rashes in certain spots. ISC is much softer in my opinion, and thus more natural. That is kind of a trend regardless of model, but they can look different from model to model.
Here is another V4 character, Lil Flower. NGS first
ISC
While you mention V4, I also did a Genesis 2 character, Belle 6, again NGS first
ISC
While the other two can be a matter of preference, in Belle's case, I think ISC comes out the real winner. Her skin just comes out too blue looking in NGS. With ISC it really coes to life, and looks like a young woman's skin would. It has just the right amount of gloss in the places you expect it, I think it is truly special.
I will say I much prefer how NGS does the eye gloss out of the box in every case. But over all I prefer ISC for most of the skins I use it with.
Basically, the better the texture maps are, the better your results will be. You can use either one as a jumping off point to further tune skin to Iray. NGS is pretty unusual in how it handles skin settings, so using it as a starting point might be a bit confusing. ISC on the other hand uses more "traditional" methods that you may see discussed in the forums. One thing you can try is to load up a newer character that is Iray and see how their surface settings compare.
It is also possible that the model uses textures that neither NGS or ISC will understand. If that happens, those textures are not used in the conversion, and that might be why some things look off. You can try looking at the skin surfaces and see if anything looks out of place. Both may also discard texture maps depending on what choices you make before converting.
Hope this helps.
I have used NGS2 since it was a beta; I am a huge fan but have to say I have fallen in love with the dual lobe function in Daz Studio 4 so I haven’t used it as much. When NGS3 is released, it will add dual lobe and I will be thrilled.
Thanks for what you've written, outrider42, but I'm having trouble figuring out which products you're talking about. By The Smart Converter, do you mean https://www.daz3d.com/iray-smart-converter-and-advanced-skin-managers-for-genesis-3
or https://www.daz3d.com/iray-smart-converter-and-advanced-skin-managers-for-genesis-2
I'm guessing one of those.
And by NGS2, I'm guessing you mean something like this: https://www.daz3d.com/n-g-s-anagenessis-for-genesis-3
And about when will NGS3 be out?
I'm hoping there's someone out there who used to use Poser, and who can take a Poser character and show me what happens. The V4/M4 and the V3/M3/David3 are the characters I'm interested in. Maybe one D3 and one M4?
The NGS you linked is the first one. NGS2 is more versatile as it can be applied to basically every figure, including non standard figures. This is one of NGS2's biggest advantages over most other products like it. (Sorry, I did not mean to confuse by just saying NGS.) NGS2 also has an additional perk of being able to apply specific shaders to specific surface areas, like only using the cornea shader. Sometimes I use ISC first, and then use the NGS2 cornea shader. So there are times when I use both at once.
https://www.daz3d.com/n-g-s-anagenessis-2-revolution
NGS3 has been "coming soon" for like a year or more. Only Dimension Z knows when it might be releasing, and I am not sure he even knows. I was initially excited, but now it feels like waiting for Half Life 3. He has DeviantArt account, but he has not been updating as much lately. I think he has been having some health issues or something.
Iray Smart Converter has a different product for each generation. The one I use is for Genesis 2, but I also own the Generation 4 version.
https://www.daz3d.com/iray-smart-converter-and-advanced-skin-managers-for-genesis-2
Like I said before, I can use this one on V4 skins because I have products that allow G2 to wear V4 skins. That is this product: https://www.daz3d.com/victoria-4-for-genesis-2-female ; If you are sticking to V4/M4, then you have no reason to get this, you can get the Generation 4 version. If you are only interested in using V4, this is the one,
https://www.daz3d.com/iray-converter-for-generation-4
I just point out how I do it because you have options. If you convert V4 to another generation, then you only need ISC for that generation. Or you can use ISC for Generation 4 first, save as a preset, and THEN convert that to Genesis xyz. You can do it however you wish.
Each of these have topics dedicated to them created by the PA themselves. There are also a lot of user renders in them.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/62117/iray-converter-for-generation-4-m4-v4-etc-etc-commercial/p1
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/110976/n-g-s-anagenessis-ii-revolution-commercial/p1
I think both products have their merits, and one does something better than the other. But over all I do prefer the look of ISC more. But is just me. A lot of people on the forums seem to like NGS2 more. Honestly I would buy both if on sale, because I do like both, and as I said, I have even used both at the same time. But if I had to pick just one, it would be one of the ISC's for the generation I prefer. I've learned a few things about how surfaces work thanks to these products, and I am very thankful for that.
Thank you for all of this information and help, outrider42. I have been reading through some of these forums. I'm wondering, is it possible to use the NGS2 first and then use ISC after that? Or, does NGS2 produce a one map version that would not be further modifiable? I notice (i think) you and others writing of going from ISC to NGS2, but not the other way around.
I've been reading around trying to figure some of this out. There's a reference to "the dual lobe function" above and that NGS3 will support that. What exactly is this dual lobe function?
There's also a mention of Dimension Z having a DeviantArt account. I can't find it. Does anyone have a link to Dimension Z's page on DA? I have the darndest time trying to locate people on DA. Is there a search for people process there? I can search for works or forums but can't figure out how to search for people.
According to Dimension-Z's signature on forum posts you will find it here: https://www.deviantart.com/as-dimension-z
ETA: Sorry I can't help you with horw to find people in general on DeviantArt - I just happened to remember that the sig had some info
Thank you very much for the information on Dimension Z. I found him on DeviantArt. By the way, he does have some promo images up for NGS3.