dForce Hair (as well as strand based hair and the strand based hair editor) in public beta

narkfestmojo

Daz are absolutely 100% allowed to make money and that is not what anyone at all is upset about.

The issue is that only PA's will be allowed to use the extra dforce feature and that is what is unfair.

I am willing to pay for this as an extra add-on feature.

barbult

Joepingleton said:

barbult said:

Joepingleton said:

barbult said:

Joepingleton said:

Strange, my previous post seems to have disappeared, but Wendy was able to quote it.  Not that my opinion means much, but I thought I would repost it in case anyone was interested. :)

Just my two cents here, I can see why people are disappointed that us users can't make strand based hair dynamic.  To me, it should be a given that hair should be dynamic and it was the biggest drawback of using hair in DAZ studio ever since I made the switch from Poser and Carrara. Every other 3D program has dynamic hair and has had it for a long time. Without dynamic hair, animations look very unrealistic from DAZ Studio.  I previously used Poser and Carrara for animation and both had it since very early versions. I switched to using DAZ Studio for most things when DAZ stopped updating Carrara and the introduction of Iray. I was considering dropping DAZ Studio and just moving to Blender mainly because of its built-in support for Dynamic Hair, but I don't want to do that because I like DAZ Studio and I have a ton of assets for it. I was hoping this was a step in the right direction to bring DAZ Studio into the standards of what hair should be and that is it should be dynamic.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new strand based hair and I am grateful to have an alternative to LAMH. The examples I have seen of stand based hair so far are amazing. It just feels like they are holding it's true power from us, lowly users.  What if we want dynamic hair for something that isn't popular enough for a PA to create? Are we just out of luck? 

I agree that most programs aren't free, so maybe the solution would be that they provide a plug-in that us users can buy to add dynamics to strand based hair.  I already use the LAMH paid plug-in because I wanted to use the hair on figures that are either too old or unpopular for PA's to create hair for them.  I also use a lot of the other paid plug-in to provide functions that the base DAZ Studio doesn't provide.  At least give the option since they obviously have the technology to do so:)

Anyway, Here are some strand based hair War Hamsters

War Hamsters look great!

Thank you for the kind words of encouragement, I tried to use a density map to make them a little fluffier and still keep their faces trimmed and using a smaller tip and root and more hairs seemed to make them much softer.  Also using random length hair helps to get rid of some of the "push" look. Turning up the roughness on the hair shader seems to get rid of the darkness I was getting with the hair colors.  I still don't know how to get rid of all the shine and darkness compared to the underlying texture, but it seems like a step in the right direction.  I am having so much fun learning from everyone's great examples and discussions :)

@Joepingleton, Please explain how you use a density map to control the hair length (to keep their faces trimmed).

I just applied a greyscale image (top screen in the example) to the "Reduce Length" options in the "TWEAK" panel (bottom of the example). For some reason, it didn't give me the desired effect on the legs, but it seemed to work on the head.  A lot more experimenting needs to be done ;)

Thanks for the tip!

Eboshijaana

So, guess what makes this better than LAMH?

https://i.imgur.com/2XlOk7v.png

It doesn't crash/bug out if you add extra anatomy features, such as tails. That is a HUGE upside.

algovincian

Joepingleton said:

Strange, my previous post seems to have disappeared, but Wendy was able to quote it.  Not that my opinion means much, but I thought I would repost it in case anyone was interested. :)

Just my two cents here, I can see why people are disappointed that us users can't make strand based hair dynamic.  To me, it should be a given that hair should be dynamic and it was the biggest drawback of using hair in DAZ studio ever since I made the switch from Poser and Carrara. Every other 3D program has dynamic hair and has had it for a long time. Without dynamic hair, animations look very unrealistic from DAZ Studio.  I previously used Poser and Carrara for animation and both had it since very early versions. I switched to using DAZ Studio for most things when DAZ stopped updating Carrara and the introduction of Iray. I was considering dropping DAZ Studio and just moving to Blender mainly because of its built-in support for Dynamic Hair, but I don't want to do that because I like DAZ Studio and I have a ton of assets for it. I was hoping this was a step in the right direction to bring DAZ Studio into the standards of what hair should be and that is it should be dynamic.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new strand based hair and I am grateful to have an alternative to LAMH. The examples I have seen of stand based hair so far are amazing. It just feels like they are holding it's true power from us, lowly users.  What if we want dynamic hair for something that isn't popular enough for a PA to create? Are we just out of luck? 

I agree that most programs aren't free, so maybe the solution would be that they provide a plug-in that us users can buy to add dynamics to strand based hair.  I already use the LAMH paid plug-in because I wanted to use the hair on figures that are either too old or unpopular for PA's to create hair for them.  I also use a lot of the other paid plug-in to provide functions that the base DAZ Studio doesn't provide.  At least give the option since they obviously have the technology to do so:)

Anyway, Here are some strand based hair War Hamsters

I value your opinion @Joepingleton, especially when it comes to hairy things in DS (as I'm sure others do as well). Your rodents look fantastic! You've always been very generous in sharing your experience and workflow, too, which is much appreciated.

- Greg

 

algovincian

randy88 said:

I made baby's hair with New Starand Based Hair. Hair was created on the HairCap, not the head. In this way, you can save your hair and move it to other characters.

Great job, @randy88 - it's perfect!

- Greg 

algovincian

barbult said:

I've been working on making eyebrows for G8M. This turned out to be MUCH harder than I anticipated. Oh, it was pretty easy to make some eyebrows, but they looked unnatural. After MANY attempts, this is the result that I finally called good enough. I used Brow Eraser to remove the painted brows from G8M. Then I put my Strand-Based brows on. From the side, you can see that they have some depth that painted brows don't have.

Well, your efforts definitely paid off, @barbult. Those look pretty natural to me, and looks like a great use for the new tools.

- Greg

Leonides02

Eboshijaana said:

So, guess what makes this better than LAMH?

https://i.imgur.com/2XlOk7v.png
It doesn't crash/bug out if you add extra anatomy features, such as tails. That is a HUGE upside.

Wow, that looks fantastic! :)

algovincian

Divamakeup said:

The Blended Duel Lobe Hair Shader (I think that cames with the Strand Based Hair DIM download):

I really like the Blended Duel Lobe Hair Shader as it lets you have one color for the roots and a different color for the tips.

 

This thread is moving so fast it's hard to keep up! Haven't even had time to install the new beta, and you people are making me jealous itching to play join in. So many renders showing what you've all been able to do with it in such a short time.

Your hair looks excellent, Diva. The clumping on the top and combing on the sides came out very well.

- Greg

RS-S

I'm so sorry, but I'm having such a hard time following this. I see these images of what everybody else is making and I still can't figure out how to make the mohawk go away. When I tried making eyebrows, and chest hair, the mohawk persistantly appeared. I tried cutting it off with the scissors but that did nothing. I tried setting it to zero, but then nothing else grew. How do you all make the mohawk go away? I am clearly missing something elemental you all know. It's so incredibly frustrating. What hair cap did randy 88 use to attach the hair to? Mine won't come off the stupid grey figure, won't not be a mohawk. . .maybe I'm just too stupid to use this program.

barbult

algovincian said:

barbult said:

I've been working on making eyebrows for G8M. This turned out to be MUCH harder than I anticipated. Oh, it was pretty easy to make some eyebrows, but they looked unnatural. After MANY attempts, this is the result that I finally called good enough. I used Brow Eraser to remove the painted brows from G8M. Then I put my Strand-Based brows on. From the side, you can see that they have some depth that painted brows don't have.

Well, your efforts definitely paid off, @barbult. Those look pretty natural to me, and looks like a great use for the new tools.

- Greg

Thanks. Yes, I think things like eyebrows, body hair, and short hair are great uses of the new Strand-Based Hair. Joepingleton has shown fantastic animal fur. We can create a lot of great things without even having the dForce hair capability. 

Right now I'm working on a new scene where I reused the eyebrows on another character and just restyled them in the editor to make them wilder. It is a very flexible system, it seems. I'm making a thinning comb-over to go with them. I'll post it when I'm done.

I'm still struggling with the highlights on the new hair shader. Maybe my lights are too bright, but I get too much white shine, even when I try to tone down the settings. 

barbult

RS-S said:

I'm so sorry, but I'm having such a hard time following this. I see these images of what everybody else is making and I still can't figure out how to make the mohawk go away. When I tried making eyebrows, and chest hair, the mohawk persistantly appeared. I tried cutting it off with the scissors but that did nothing. I tried setting it to zero, but then nothing else grew. How do you all make the mohawk go away? I am clearly missing something elemental you all know. It's so incredibly frustrating. What hair cap did randy 88 use to attach the hair to? Mine won't come off the stupid grey figure, won't not be a mohawk. . .maybe I'm just too stupid to use this program.

You don't even have to start with the Mohawk. Select your character in the Scene pane and then select Create/New Strand-Based Hair. When the editor opens, select the surfaces you want to work on (torso and face for head hair, usually). Then in the Paint tab, paint white where you want hair to grow. 

algovincian

Hey Joe! Was just thinking about your post, and thinking that a lot of your hairy stuff is good enough to be products (IMHO). Would hate to see you go, and it would make your dynamic dreams come true . . . just sayin.

- Greg

Joepingleton

.

algovincian

Joepingleton said:

algovincian said:

Hey Joe! Was just thinking about your post, and thinking that a lot of your hairy stuff is good enough to be products (IMHO). Would hate to see you go, and it would make your dynamic dreams come true . . . just sayin.

- Greg

Thank you for your kind words of encouragement, I wouldn't be able to do anything I have done without the great PA's at DAZ.  I am a horrible modeler and texture artist. I was only able to start using hair in animals when I started playing with the LAMH figures Alessandro_AM  and others created.  Even then it wasn't until the release of "LAMH 2 Iray Catalyzer" that I could start to do what I dreamed about and that only works on Alessandro_AM's models. Please don't think I am complaining that we can't create dynamic hair for FREE. I just let my hopes get up too high with the possibilities. Wanting to take these models and put them into motion is my ultimate goal and dynamic hair is a necessity for that.  I hope they make it available as the did with LAMH and other plugins so that we can buy the functionality if we want to dig deeper.  I have so many assets in DAZ (61 pages in my product library)  so DAZ Studio will always be a part of my workflow. I'll just have to use other software to get to where I want to go and it would be nice if I could do it all in DAZ Studio. I was worried that all my experiments with LAMH were wasted now that we have strand hair built in but it seems like the general principles are the same. ;)

Seeing what people are already creating with these tools is very inspiring. The tips I am getting from this discussion of these new features are priceless. 

Maybe there are some modelers who would like to partner with somebody who would take care of the hair?

- Greg

Joepingleton

.

WendyLuvsCatz

if DAZ can sell some dynamic bases for every generation not just Genesis 8 as I fear will happen I would feel a bit less unhappy about it too, like they do the morph packages

by bases I mean

1. a basic scalp preset hair for past as well as present male and females you can grow hairs on at your prefered length
2. an all over body hair preset  for creatures with palms and soles unhaired especially the genesis 1 creatures I fear PA's will not support
3. fur presets for all DAZ original animals including legacy
4. beard moustache and body hair options for all generations too not just Genesis 8, DAZ can always just pick up the earlier DO figures PA's won't support too if that is an issue or buy them out as DO's or PC+

ArtAngel

Joepingleton said:

algovincian said:

Hey Joe! Was just thinking about your post, and thinking that a lot of your hairy stuff is good enough to be products (IMHO). Would hate to see you go, and it would make your dynamic dreams come true . . . just sayin.

- Greg

Thank you for your kind words of encouragement, I wouldn't be able to do anything I have done without the great PA's at DAZ.  I am a horrible modeler and texture artist. I was only able to start using hair in animals when I started playing with the LAMH figures Alessandro_AM  and others created.  Even then it wasn't until the release of "LAMH 2 Iray Catalyzer" that I could start to do what I dreamed about and that only works on Alessandro_AM's models. Please don't think I am complaining that we can't create dynamic hair for FREE. I just let my hopes get up too high with the possibilities. Wanting to take these models and put them into motion is my ultimate goal and dynamic hair is a necessity for that.  I hope they make it available as the did with LAMH and other plugins so that we can buy the functionality if we want to dig deeper.  I have so many assets in DAZ (61 pages in my product library)  so DAZ Studio will always be a part of my workflow. I'll just have to use other software to get to where I want to go and it would be nice if I could do it all in DAZ Studio. I was worried that all my experiments with LAMH were wasted now that we have strand hair built in but it seems like the general principles are the same. ;)

Seeing what people are already creating with these tools is very inspiring. The tips I am getting from this discussion of these new features are priceless. 

I owned several brick and motar flowershops when I was an entrepreneur. I also was married multiple times. I had emotional and financial investments in both those avenues. But pouring money into a sinking boat is simply a loss. I am not saying Daz is a sinking boat. I obviosly belive and support Daz considering I started accumulating in 2017 and now have  a large investment with 175 product pages but I truly have found that blender is more helpful and community minded despite my lack of support there.

WendyLuvsCatz

this was my Dforce Zbrush Millenium cat fur I did a while back

there was some cheating involved as I used instances and geometry shells to increase density

while not using this system it might give the PA's who can some ideas how to plump out animals without having to use so many strands

ArtAngel

Wendy_Carrara said:

this was my Dforce Zbrush Millenium cat fur I did a while back

there was some cheating involved as I used instances and geometry shells to increase density

while not using this system it might give the PA's who can some ideas how to plump out animals without having to use so many strands

cool  but it's tail rigging should have a curl. Then it would qualify as a purrfect furball oops I mean ball of fur.

WendyLuvsCatz

ArtAngel said:

Wendy_Carrara said:

this was my Dforce Zbrush Millenium cat fur I did a while back

there was some cheating involved as I used instances and geometry shells to increase density

while not using this system it might give the PA's who can some ideas how to plump out animals without having to use so many strands

cool  but it's tail rigging should have a curl. Then it would qualify as a purrfect furball oops I mean ball of fur.

It was a preloaded motion by Anymatter

yes agree needs more tail swish

WendyLuvsCatz

so how do we load a density map? it won't accept any I try

Joepingleton

.

barbult

I finished my portrait with the Strand-Based thinning comb-over and the wild eyebrows. I used the same eyebrows I created before, but I restyled them. The hair is new. This character is based on Ollie 8 with some morph tweaks.

Gallery Image

Joepingleton

,

WendyLuvsCatz

I hope the PA's can make stuff this awesome  the dynamic combover on someone alighting from a plane is worth it's own animation 

and Joe your animals ROCK!

WendyLuvsCatz

why does it render so dark and shiney?

ok adding a distant light helps maybe the HDRI does it

Padone

L'Adair said:

It's actually much denser than the hair that was on either of my two babies, irl.

For some reason due the thickness and strenght of those hair I was supposing the baby to be asian .. indeed caucasian children of that age have weaker hair.

stuthurso

Wendy_Carrara said:

so how do we load a density map? it won't accept any I try

To import a density map they have to have a name structure like this: 

Surface Name (ie Face or Torso) [Map Name]

So if you had a density map for eyebrows you wanted to apply it would need to be called 'Face [Eyebrows]'.  Of course whatever is in the square brackets is just for you to identify it the most important thing is that it always has the name of the surface it'll be applied to first.  It also has to be 1024 x 1024 pixels in size as well.  The best way to check what is different about your own map  is to export the empty 'Hair Density' map that is automatically picked and check the name it has and it's properties against yours.  if you can get them to have the same values then everything should work okay.  A warning though don't try and import the 'Hair Density' map back into the editor without changing the name in the square brackets to something else first or it will hang or crash Daz studio (or at least it did for me when I accidentally did it myself).  

I hope that all made sense.  LOL

WendyLuvsCatz

video

yes thanks I used Joes suggestion and made one the same size and name and it worked

PhilW

Some of you are making rapid progress. Great to see the different uses of hair. I think it is very exciting that Daz Studio now has “proper” hair available, I think it will increase realism in renders dramatically.