dForce Hair (as well as strand based hair and the strand based hair editor) in public beta

Eboshijaana

Those who have made fur, what fur density and widths did you use?

I've been trying with 80-140, but can't get it, right.

Wilmap

My first attempt.

How do you get the hair out of the scalp? I end up with bald patches and can't figure out how to rectify this.

 

WendyLuvsCatz

Wilmap said:

My first attempt.

How do you get the hair out of the scalp? I end up with bald patches and can't figure out how to rectify this.

 

Only way I know is to select those bits with the first tool and click the gear cog one and click reset curves but sometimes this makes them much longer than every thing else so have to trim them

ArtAngel

Wendy_Carrara said:

ArtAngel said:

Wendy_Carrara said:

this was my Dforce Zbrush Millenium cat fur I did a while back

there was some cheating involved as I used instances and geometry shells to increase density

while not using this system it might give the PA's who can some ideas how to plump out animals without having to use so many strands

cool  but it's tail rigging should have a curl. Then it would qualify as a purrfect furball oops I mean ball of fur.

It was a preloaded motion by Anymatter

yes agree needs more tail swish

DUH! Keyboard head crunch. Who cares about the taiol.  Did not realize it was a video. That was absolutely great!

BlueIrene

Wilmap said:

My first attempt.

How do you get the hair out of the scalp? I end up with bald patches and can't figure out how to rectify this.

 

There's the 'Surface attract' tool in the styling tab which might help. It will pull the hair towards the surface of the model (e.g. the scalp) and back through it again if the hair has sunk beneath it. Apologies if I've misunderstood the question - it would not be the first time :)

Joepingleton

.

RS-S

barbult said:

RS-S said:

I'm so sorry, but I'm having such a hard time following this. I see these images of what everybody else is making and I still can't figure out how to make the mohawk go away. When I tried making eyebrows, and chest hair, the mohawk persistantly appeared. I tried cutting it off with the scissors but that did nothing. I tried setting it to zero, but then nothing else grew. How do you all make the mohawk go away? I am clearly missing something elemental you all know. It's so incredibly frustrating. What hair cap did randy 88 use to attach the hair to? Mine won't come off the stupid grey figure, won't not be a mohawk. . .maybe I'm just too stupid to use this program.

You don't even have to start with the Mohawk. Select your character in the Scene pane and then select Create/New Strand-Based Hair. When the editor opens, select the surfaces you want to work on (torso and face for head hair, usually). Then in the Paint tab, paint white where you want hair to grow. 

Thank you SO MUCH Barbult!!! I was definitely missing some thing very very elemental. So very thankful you took the time to explain this. I had totally given up on the whole thing.  .  .how kind of you to clue me in.

 

Wilmap

Thank you Blueirene, I shall try that when I next try it out.

Richard Haseltine

stuthurso said:

Wendy_Carrara said:

so how do we load a density map? it won't accept any I try

To import a density map they have to have a name structure like this: 

Surface Name (ie Face or Torso) [Map Name]

So if you had a density map for eyebrows you wanted to apply it would need to be called 'Face [Eyebrows]'.  Of course whatever is in the square brackets is just for you to identify it the most important thing is that it always has the name of the surface it'll be applied to first.  It also has to be 1024 x 1024 pixels in size as well.  The best way to check what is different about your own map  is to export the empty 'Hair Density' map that is automatically picked and check the name it has and it's properties against yours.  if you can get them to have the same values then everything should work okay.  A warning though don't try and import the 'Hair Density' map back into the editor without changing the name in the square brackets to something else first or it will hang or crash Daz studio (or at least it did for me when I accidentally did it myself).  

I hope that all made sense.  LOL

I am going to be lazy and just quote Rob here:

The import process has you select a single file and the name of that file is parsed to determine which *set* of files in that folder to import. Pay particular attention to the formatting of the name and where the spaces are. The first *word* (i.e., the characters in the filename before the first space) is matched to surface names during the import process. If no match is found for a given *set* of maps (i.e., those in the same folder bearing the same Texture Control Map name - the characters between the pair of square brackets), that image is not imported.

The import process is changed in the next build to allow replacement of an existing [Texture Control Map] if the parsed name collides with a name that is already in the list. The user is now prompted for whether or not to replace or use a new name. If the new name option is chosen, the process will make the parsed name unique by appending a number to the to the end. Once it has determined a unique name, the name dialog is displayed allowing it to be refined and accepted. If the name in the dialog is modified such that it is not unique, the replace/new process repeats. Choosing the replace option during this process drops all existing textures for the set before importing the new set - if a texture for a given surface is missing in the folder when the replacement is imported, that surface's portion of the map is effectively cleared. The process is a replacement (destructive), not a merge.

katherinepoche_e11a5b0e7e

Is there any way to prevent the hair from being painted on the underside of a figure? And will there be more documentation and tools added to this in the future?  

Also - can we save the hair and re-use it again on another figure without having to repaint it?

nicstt

Joepingleton said:

Strange, my previous post seems to have disappeared, but Wendy was able to quote it.  Not that my opinion means much, but I thought I would repost it in case anyone was interested. :)

Just my two cents here, I can see why people are disappointed that us users can't make strand based hair dynamic.  To me, it should be a given that hair should be dynamic and it was the biggest drawback of using hair in DAZ studio ever since I made the switch from Poser and Carrara. Every other 3D program has dynamic hair and has had it for a long time. Without dynamic hair, animations look very unrealistic from DAZ Studio.  I previously used Poser and Carrara for animation and both had it since very early versions. I switched to using DAZ Studio for most things when DAZ stopped updating Carrara and the introduction of Iray. I was considering dropping DAZ Studio and just moving to Blender mainly because of its built-in support for Dynamic Hair, but I don't want to do that because I like DAZ Studio and I have a ton of assets for it. I was hoping this was a step in the right direction to bring DAZ Studio into the standards of what hair should be and that is it should be dynamic.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new strand based hair and I am grateful to have an alternative to LAMH. The examples I have seen of stand based hair so far are amazing. It just feels like they are holding it's true power from us, lowly users.  What if we want dynamic hair for something that isn't popular enough for a PA to create? Are we just out of luck? 

I agree that most programs aren't free, so maybe the solution would be that they provide a plug-in that us users can buy to add dynamics to strand based hair.  I already use the LAMH paid plug-in because I wanted to use the hair on figures that are either too old or unpopular for PA's to create hair for them.  I also use a lot of the other paid plug-in to provide functions that the base DAZ Studio doesn't provide.  At least give the option since they obviously have the technology to do so:)

Anyway, Here are some strand based hair War Hamsters

Damn, that's good. I'm guessing the warrior hamsters have been warned my cat is lurking.

barbult

Richard Haseltine said:

stuthurso said:

Wendy_Carrara said:

so how do we load a density map? it won't accept any I try

To import a density map they have to have a name structure like this: 

Surface Name (ie Face or Torso) [Map Name]

So if you had a density map for eyebrows you wanted to apply it would need to be called 'Face [Eyebrows]'.  Of course whatever is in the square brackets is just for you to identify it the most important thing is that it always has the name of the surface it'll be applied to first.  It also has to be 1024 x 1024 pixels in size as well.  The best way to check what is different about your own map  is to export the empty 'Hair Density' map that is automatically picked and check the name it has and it's properties against yours.  if you can get them to have the same values then everything should work okay.  A warning though don't try and import the 'Hair Density' map back into the editor without changing the name in the square brackets to something else first or it will hang or crash Daz studio (or at least it did for me when I accidentally did it myself).  

I hope that all made sense.  LOL

I am going to be lazy and just quote Rob here:

The import process has you select a single file and the name of that file is parsed to determine which *set* of files in that folder to import. Pay particular attention to the formatting of the name and where the spaces are. The first *word* (i.e., the characters in the filename before the first space) is matched to surface names during the import process. If no match is found for a given *set* of maps (i.e., those in the same folder bearing the same Texture Control Map name - the characters between the pair of square brackets), that image is not imported.

The import process is changed in the next build to allow replacement of an existing [Texture Control Map] if the parsed name collides with a name that is already in the list. The user is now prompted for whether or not to replace or use a new name. If the new name option is chosen, the process will make the parsed name unique by appending a number to the to the end. Once it has determined a unique name, the name dialog is displayed allowing it to be refined and accepted. If the name in the dialog is modified such that it is not unique, the replace/new process repeats. Choosing the replace option during this process drops all existing textures for the set before importing the new set - if a texture for a given surface is missing in the folder when the replacement is imported, that surface's portion of the map is effectively cleared. The process is a replacement (destructive), not a merge.

 

That should eliminate the crash scenario I reported over in the Beta thread.

(Edit: I mean this crash, not the autofit crash.)

Petra

I have the DS 4.11 update but have no clue where to find this plugin.

Can someone please help?

barbult

PBR said:

I have the DS 4.11 update but have no clue where to find this plugin.

Can someone please help?

Did you update the dForce Essentials? Did you Update and Merge Menus? 

barbult

Joepingleton said:

Eboshijaana said:

Those who have made fur, what fur density and widths did you use?

I've been trying with 80-140, but can't get it, right.

I've used a density of 800 with a root of .20 and a tip.05 on my hamsters and my latest dog experiment.  I tried using larger roots and tips with less density but the fur looked too bristly to me. 

Just in case anyone is interested, I attached an image showing the settings I used on the hamsters.  I tried the same settings on my latest dog image, but I don't think they worked as well.  I also included my materials settings because I still don't think I have them set incorrectly.  They appear to be too shiny and come out much darker than the underlying textures.  Maybe somebody who actually knows what they are doing (instead of my clumsy hacks) has some insights on how to improve things.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I've just been concentrating on short fur to get the idea of how things work, before trying longer more complex fur.  I would love to hear what people who have tried longer fur have learned.

Over here, Daz_Josh suggested lowering the Glossy Layer Weight for light colored hair. I still have the same issues that others are reporting, though, with dark hair and overly bright highlights. Your suggestion of adding roughness helped some. 

Joepingleton

.

Masterstroke

With this Dforce Hair tool, we can also finally let some grass grow, right?

SpottedKitty

Looking at the War Hamsters pic gave my grey matter a nudge — would it be possible to use the new hair to give critters a proper spread of long, light-coloured whiskers?

barbult

Joepingleton said:

barbult said:

Joepingleton said:

Eboshijaana said:

Those who have made fur, what fur density and widths did you use?

I've been trying with 80-140, but can't get it, right.

I've used a density of 800 with a root of .20 and a tip.05 on my hamsters and my latest dog experiment.  I tried using larger roots and tips with less density but the fur looked too bristly to me. 

Just in case anyone is interested, I attached an image showing the settings I used on the hamsters.  I tried the same settings on my latest dog image, but I don't think they worked as well.  I also included my materials settings because I still don't think I have them set incorrectly.  They appear to be too shiny and come out much darker than the underlying textures.  Maybe somebody who actually knows what they are doing (instead of my clumsy hacks) has some insights on how to improve things.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I've just been concentrating on short fur to get the idea of how things work, before trying longer more complex fur.  I would love to hear what people who have tried longer fur have learned.

Over here, Daz_Josh suggested lowering the Glossy Layer Weight for light colored hair. I still have the same issues that others are reporting, though, with dark hair and overly bright highlights. Your suggestion of adding roughness helped some. 

Thanks, I'll give that a try.  It wasn't as noticeable on my latest experiment with the French Bulldogs.

They look cute. The image you attached with your hamster settings is very compressed, and I almost can't read it at all. Do you have a larger version?

Joepingleton

.

barbult

The full size version is much easier to read. Thanks.

WendyLuvsCatz

 

a longer floofy video

the weird black jumps in the BG turned out to be 3 black frames in my image series I just found after uploading it sadly and not good enough to bother redoing 

Richard Haseltine

barbult said:

Richard Haseltine said:

stuthurso said:

Wendy_Carrara said:

so how do we load a density map? it won't accept any I try

To import a density map they have to have a name structure like this: 

Surface Name (ie Face or Torso) [Map Name]

So if you had a density map for eyebrows you wanted to apply it would need to be called 'Face [Eyebrows]'.  Of course whatever is in the square brackets is just for you to identify it the most important thing is that it always has the name of the surface it'll be applied to first.  It also has to be 1024 x 1024 pixels in size as well.  The best way to check what is different about your own map  is to export the empty 'Hair Density' map that is automatically picked and check the name it has and it's properties against yours.  if you can get them to have the same values then everything should work okay.  A warning though don't try and import the 'Hair Density' map back into the editor without changing the name in the square brackets to something else first or it will hang or crash Daz studio (or at least it did for me when I accidentally did it myself).  

I hope that all made sense.  LOL

I am going to be lazy and just quote Rob here:

The import process has you select a single file and the name of that file is parsed to determine which *set* of files in that folder to import. Pay particular attention to the formatting of the name and where the spaces are. The first *word* (i.e., the characters in the filename before the first space) is matched to surface names during the import process. If no match is found for a given *set* of maps (i.e., those in the same folder bearing the same Texture Control Map name - the characters between the pair of square brackets), that image is not imported.

The import process is changed in the next build to allow replacement of an existing [Texture Control Map] if the parsed name collides with a name that is already in the list. The user is now prompted for whether or not to replace or use a new name. If the new name option is chosen, the process will make the parsed name unique by appending a number to the to the end. Once it has determined a unique name, the name dialog is displayed allowing it to be refined and accepted. If the name in the dialog is modified such that it is not unique, the replace/new process repeats. Choosing the replace option during this process drops all existing textures for the set before importing the new set - if a texture for a given surface is missing in the folder when the replacement is imported, that surface's portion of the map is effectively cleared. The process is a replacement (destructive), not a merge.

 

That should eliminate the crash scenario I reported over in the Beta thread.

(Edit: I mean this crash, not the autofit crash.)

Yes, Rob says it would explain the crash.

barbult

Masterstroke said:

With this Dforce Hair tool, we can also finally let some grass grow, right?

You can create grass with Strand-Based hair, but it might not be the best way to do it. Creating a large expanse of hair would probably crash your computer. Here I created 4 individual 1 foot square clumps of grass and used UltraScatterPro to scatter them in a matrix 30 feet by 30 feet. I scattered a few weeds to break up the monotony. G8F is there for scale. Grass pokes through her feet and through the weed leaves.

DestinysGarden

Regarding universal hair shaders and strand based hair:

I've been experimenting a bit with a hair model donated to me by a fellow PA, and this is what I've come up with. The shader packages in the store that use square texture maps are only going to work to a certain point. They work great on transmapped ribbons of hair because after all these years, most hair creators have adopted the standard of laying out hair strand on a UV map in a vertical manner, root side up. The strand based hair, when you have the use target uv's option selected, is going to pull the colors from whatever the hair is attached to. In most cases this will be a skull cap. The problem is that there is no universal hair cap in widepsread adoption by hair creators. The other problem is, skull caps are usually round on a texture map and not rectangular. Hair shaders products will apply color to the strand based hair, but it will most likely not yield universally predictable results.

All that said, I've got about 5 different shader set ups I'm testing to see which variants apply most predictably across a range of hair models, and at least two of them will allow the user to select up to four colors for hair roots, and hair tips. I need about 30 more hours in a day to test all this.

RAMWolff

Wendy_Carrara said:

RAMWolff said:

Wendy_Carrara said:

RAMWolff said:

So my little question.. probably been answered but there is just too much to read!  

So the strands are rendered out as a full hairstyle but is there a way to export the completed hair style or what ever as an obj to take into say ZBrush for some tweaks or will it just stay as strand guides?  

Well yes, this was what I was doing in my posts but as I said the obj was too complex and crashed my desktop to unresponsive black monitors it took about 3 reboots to fix.... 

Interesting.  Thanks Wendy.  Hopefully they will work to stabilze the obj export to handle this a bit better.  I'm curious as to what your rigs specs are?  

16GB RAM Win7 i7 3.5Ghz 4core and a 980ti

of course you can do sparser thicker strands, I went for dense thin strands and the obj while it imported fine and even could use the dual lobe shader, did not simulate, Zbrush most go thicker strands more coverage less dense and transmapping to thin it out into ribbons

Yea, I've crashed my computer completely messing with really thin and density too high from ZBrush so I've learned to not go overboard.  I always remind folks when they are making hair for a human head that while we have ALLOT of hair (most of us anyway) it's not THAT thick or many.  Now if it's an all over body hair coverage... yikes.  Can't imagine that too many systems here would be able to handle a lush coat set up hence why I see sparse coats on furry figures from both DS and Poser.  Thicker is probably more realistic but too much no good.  You have to depend on shadowing from each strand to sort of fill things in reasonably! 

barbult

I made a thatched roof for the Potting Shed.

nonesuch00

Well here is a 'field guide' about the average head of human hair from SchwarzKopf

stuthurso

Richard Haseltine said:

stuthurso said:

Wendy_Carrara said:

 

I am going to be lazy and just quote Rob here:

The import process has you select a single file and the name of that file is parsed to determine which *set* of files in that folder to import. Pay particular attention to the formatting of the name and where the spaces are. The first *word* (i.e., the characters in the filename before the first space) is matched to surface names during the import process. If no match is found for a given *set* of maps (i.e., those in the same folder bearing the same Texture Control Map name - the characters between the pair of square brackets), that image is not imported.

The import process is changed in the next build to allow replacement of an existing [Texture Control Map] if the parsed name collides with a name that is already in the list. The user is now prompted for whether or not to replace or use a new name. If the new name option is chosen, the process will make the parsed name unique by appending a number to the to the end. Once it has determined a unique name, the name dialog is displayed allowing it to be refined and accepted. If the name in the dialog is modified such that it is not unique, the replace/new process repeats. Choosing the replace option during this process drops all existing textures for the set before importing the new set - if a texture for a given surface is missing in the folder when the replacement is imported, that surface's portion of the map is effectively cleared. The process is a replacement (destructive), not a merge.

I'd compleatly missed that there was a general problem with reimporting maps already listed in the editor or that there is already a fix for it on it's way so thanks for flagging that up Richard.  I have to admit that I'm always grateful for the patience and helpfulness of all the admin here and their willingness to share what they can to keep us on the right track.  I'm sure it can't always be easy (especially with a doofus like me around!).  

galien

A nice bonus of the strand based hair functionality is that it allows us to paint and save basic greyscale surface masks for other uses directly within Daz Studio.  (For example, I was able to use it to create a torso mask to use with the Oso Blendy Shader.)

I'm fairly new to Daz Studio so I may be wrong here, but I don't think that this was possible before.