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dForce Hair (as well as strand based hair and the strand based hair editor) in public beta

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  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,860
    L'Adair said:
    Oso3D said:

    I own zbrush and, as a pa, can convert fibermesh to dynamic hair.

    That said? There are a lot of things I like about the on engine strand hair and I’ve started using it way more.

     

    To reiterate, there are two things: strand hair, dynamic hair.

    All users got Strand hair totally for free. Completely.

    To reiterate, (and in support of the above quoted statement,) Daz could have developed the dForce hair modifier without creating the native strand based hair.

    The Strand-Based Hair feature is an awesome gift to users. And a huge step forward in the DS software. I can hardly wait for a decent tutorial, (pdf, not long, frequently off-topic, rambling video,) to be available. I suspect most of us playing with the editor have barely scratched the surface of what this bad boy can do!

    I'd watch a "long, frequently off-topic, rambling video". Is there one available? 

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 38,597

    yes the strand based edito is good and as Oso3D showed can be used without Dfrorce perfectly well for animal pelts

    the fact it renders in iray is excellent

    oddly I recently solved the issue of LAMH not syncing in animation for 3Delight too except it uses all my RAM and crashes after about 100 frames but that is possibly 3Delight and my PC too

    its the Dforce one I am a bit pissy about but I guess we have to suck it up and accept that like the HD morphs and use our alternatives

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    barbult said:
    L'Adair said:
    Oso3D said:

    I own zbrush and, as a pa, can convert fibermesh to dynamic hair.

    That said? There are a lot of things I like about the on engine strand hair and I’ve started using it way more.

     

    To reiterate, there are two things: strand hair, dynamic hair.

    All users got Strand hair totally for free. Completely.

    To reiterate, (and in support of the above quoted statement,) Daz could have developed the dForce hair modifier without creating the native strand based hair.

    The Strand-Based Hair feature is an awesome gift to users. And a huge step forward in the DS software. I can hardly wait for a decent tutorial, (pdf, not long, frequently off-topic, rambling video,) to be available. I suspect most of us playing with the editor have barely scratched the surface of what this bad boy can do!

    I'd watch a "long, frequently off-topic, rambling video". Is there one available? 

    Not to my knowledge. I'd probably suck it up and watch one, though, if you were doing the teaching!

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited June 2019

    .

    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,860
    Joepingleton said:

    Thank you, everyone, for all your kindness and encouragement.  I am learning so much from all of you.

    Has there been any documentation released for Strand Based Hair yet? Since it is now part of a general release it would be nice to know what everything does

    I haven't seen any. The Highlights page still says "Added a "New Strand-Based Hair..." action (linked documentation is in progress)"

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,955
    barbult said:
    Joepingleton said:

    Thank you, everyone, for all your kindness and encouragement.  I am learning so much from all of you.

    Has there been any documentation released for Strand Based Hair yet? Since it is now part of a general release it would be nice to know what everything does

    I haven't seen any. The Highlights page still says "Added a "New Strand-Based Hair..." action (linked documentation is in progress)"

     

    There is still documentation on the Garibaldi site that is relevant - https://www.garibaldiexpress.com/help.php

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,860
    L'Adair said:
    barbult said:
    L'Adair said:
    Oso3D said:

    I own zbrush and, as a pa, can convert fibermesh to dynamic hair.

    That said? There are a lot of things I like about the on engine strand hair and I’ve started using it way more.

     

    To reiterate, there are two things: strand hair, dynamic hair.

    All users got Strand hair totally for free. Completely.

    To reiterate, (and in support of the above quoted statement,) Daz could have developed the dForce hair modifier without creating the native strand based hair.

    The Strand-Based Hair feature is an awesome gift to users. And a huge step forward in the DS software. I can hardly wait for a decent tutorial, (pdf, not long, frequently off-topic, rambling video,) to be available. I suspect most of us playing with the editor have barely scratched the surface of what this bad boy can do!

    I'd watch a "long, frequently off-topic, rambling video". Is there one available? 

    Not to my knowledge. I'd probably suck it up and watch one, though, if you were doing the teaching!

    My teaching moments are just documenting things that look like bugs or work in an inconsistent or unpredictable way. My gazillion comments are in the beta thread.

  • skinklizzardskinklizzard Posts: 218

    small update on the dog fur, this is after I almost froze the hell out of my pc by upping the density too high and lowering the segment length too much (80 density, 0.1 segment length)

    Daz had a memory commit of 25 gigs, I have 12 of actual ram, so thats a lot of page file going on there, also it took 40 minutes before it even got to the 'rendering' status.

    I dropped density to 40 and upped segment length to 0.33 when I was finally able to cancle the render attempt.

    she looks a little flat though so I might have set the roughness too high ? that or the light isn't as bright as I think it is.

    furry_doggo_2.jpg
    1600 x 1600 - 2M
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,860
    skinklizzard said:

    small update on the dog fur, this is after I almost froze the hell out of my pc by upping the density too high and lowering the segment length too much (80 density, 0.1 segment length)

    Daz had a memory commit of 25 gigs, I have 12 of actual ram, so thats a lot of page file going on there, also it took 40 minutes before it even got to the 'rendering' status.

    I dropped density to 40 and upped segment length to 0.33 when I was finally able to cancle the render attempt.

    she looks a little flat though so I might have set the roughness too high ? that or the light isn't as bright as I think it is.

    The darkness of the fur might be the denser hair shadowing the underlying coat texture??? I think somewhere earlier in this thread there was a workaround for this issue. I don't remember exactly what it was; you'll  have to skim through the thread. It had to do with making the texture map on the fur shader lighter, I think. Maybe Joepingleton posted it; I'm not sure. Sorry to be of limited help here.

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 5,961
    edited June 2019
    skinklizzard said:

    small update on the dog fur, this is after I almost froze the hell out of my pc by upping the density too high and lowering the segment length too much (80 density, 0.1 segment length)

    Daz had a memory commit of 25 gigs, I have 12 of actual ram, so thats a lot of page file going on there, also it took 40 minutes before it even got to the 'rendering' status.

    I dropped density to 40 and upped segment length to 0.33 when I was finally able to cancle the render attempt.

    she looks a little flat though so I might have set the roughness too high ? that or the light isn't as bright as I think it is.

    If your concern is with darker and lighter patches of hair, check your tesselation on the fur. I think by default it is 1.0, but moving it up to 2.0 or 3.0 will help it render better. (I ran into this issue on my last character, and it took forever (and some help from daz's tech guy) to figure out)

     

    Post edited by RawArt on
  • lflpereira001lflpereira001 Posts: 3

    Is there any way to comb symmetric hairstyles with Strand Based Hair?

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,860
    RawArt said:
    skinklizzard said:

    small update on the dog fur, this is after I almost froze the hell out of my pc by upping the density too high and lowering the segment length too much (80 density, 0.1 segment length)

    Daz had a memory commit of 25 gigs, I have 12 of actual ram, so thats a lot of page file going on there, also it took 40 minutes before it even got to the 'rendering' status.

    I dropped density to 40 and upped segment length to 0.33 when I was finally able to cancle the render attempt.

    she looks a little flat though so I might have set the roughness too high ? that or the light isn't as bright as I think it is.

    If your concern is with darker and lighter patches of hair, check your tesselation on the fur. I think by default it is 1.0, but moving it up to 2.0 or 3.0 will help it render better. (I ran into this issue on my last character, and it took forever (and some help from daz's tech guy) to figure out)

     

    For me, it always defaults to 3.

  • PsyckosamaPsyckosama Posts: 495

     

    AllenArt said:

    Yes, because when I see a PA do it I take no notice whatsoever ;) Not to be mean, but of course the ppl that already have it are going to defend the decision. 

    Laurie

    Yeah, I know. Just let me sum up every PA post in this thread.

    "Meh, don't worry. You can still give me money!"

  • skinklizzardskinklizzard Posts: 218

    dforce hair appears to default to 1 (at least from the sample mohawk) and strand based to 3, I've found I need to set it to atleast 2 for anything to
    actually render strangely enough. with some more experimenting I found glossy layer weight appears to work counter intuitively, compared to what I'm used to anyway,
    in that higher values darken the less glossy areas. I assume that has to do with not actually specifying a seperate glossy colour (as far as I can tell, unless either transmission or the hair colour are actually the hair glossy colour). I also discovered that using the image editor to set the gamma of the tip base colour texture to 1.5 makes for nicely brighter tips than roots (using the same map for both) and allows for the root tip bias and root tip gain controls to have decent impact.

    As for symmetry, you can paint the density etc maps symmetrically but not style symmetrically, although if its human head hair and the head is relatively symmetrical you could just style half the hair, instance it and mirror the instance I guess.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,860
    skinklizzard said:

    dforce hair appears to default to 1 (at least from the sample mohawk) and strand based to 3,

    Interesting. Since I am not a PA, I can only create Strand-Based hair, and that is what always defaults to 3 for me.

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 5,961
    barbult said:
    skinklizzard said:

    dforce hair appears to default to 1 (at least from the sample mohawk) and strand based to 3,

    Interesting. Since I am not a PA, I can only create Strand-Based hair, and that is what always defaults to 3 for me.

    has nothing to do with being a PA....that is a strand based factor

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,860
    RawArt said:
    barbult said:
    skinklizzard said:

    dforce hair appears to default to 1 (at least from the sample mohawk) and strand based to 3,

    Interesting. Since I am not a PA, I can only create Strand-Based hair, and that is what always defaults to 3 for me.

    has nothing to do with being a PA....that is a strand based factor

    I don't understand. Why does Strand-Based hair that I create always default to tesselation of 3, but dForce hair (which can only be created by PAs) default to tesselation of 1? Or was skinklizzard's post incorrect about that?

  • skinklizzardskinklizzard Posts: 218

    I could be mistaken as I am also not a PA, but the default values for the mohawk included in the starter essentials have viewport tesselation at 0 and render at 1 under line tesselation.

    I assumed from the mention of a default at 1 by RawArt that that was something default for dforce hair itself, my appologies for creating confusion.

    but yes strand hair defaults to 3 here too, I set it down to 2 to get it not to explode my pc (I probably have too much hair).

    I did get a render I am somewhat happy with though.

    furry_doggo_4.jpg
    1600 x 1600 - 2M
  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited June 2019

    ,

    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 24,860
    Joepingleton said:

    I thought I would share my first animation experiment using the new strand based hair in DAZ Studio 4.11 and Iray. I used the walk in place aniblock from "Dog Motions for Daz Dog 8" on the "Warg HD for Daz Dog 8" model with a custom strand based hair I created.  I can't help but think that it would be so much better if I could create Dynamic Strand Based Hair in DAZ Studio :)

    It is still pretty good even without dForce. I'm not sure short fur would really benefit that much. I don't own a dog. How much does dog fur fly around when the dog is walking. Not much, I would think.

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited June 2019

    ,

    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • wteeningwteening Posts: 89
    Wendy_Carrara said:

     

    Joepingleton said:

    I thought I would share my first animation experiment using the new strand based hair in DAZ Studio 4.11 and Iray. I used the walk in place aniblock from "Dog Motions for Daz Dog 8" on the "Warg HD for Daz Dog 8" model with a custom strand based hair I created.  I can't help but think that it would be so much better if I could create Dynamic Strand Based Hair in DAZ Studio :)

    Looks great! I think you should become a PA, but before that, maybe you can send the file to one of the current PAs to make it dynamic?

  • JoepingletonJoepingleton Posts: 746
    edited June 2019

    .

    Post edited by Joepingleton on
  • PsyckosamaPsyckosama Posts: 495
    Joepingleton said:
    barbult said:
    Joepingleton said:

    I thought I would share my first animation experiment using the new strand based hair in DAZ Studio 4.11 and Iray. I used the walk in place aniblock from "Dog Motions for Daz Dog 8" on the "Warg HD for Daz Dog 8" model with a custom strand based hair I created.  I can't help but think that it would be so much better if I could create Dynamic Strand Based Hair in DAZ Studio :)

    It is still pretty good even without dForce. I'm not sure short fur would really benefit that much. I don't own a dog. How much does dog fur fly around when the dog is walking. Not much, I would think.

    Yeah, it wouldn't affect short hair much and even with this medium length it is mildly noticeable except in the longer portions of the tail and coat. In longer hair and more extreme movement (say a run or jump), it becomes very noticeable that the hair isn't dynamic. The main thing is that hair moves with motion and without it the animation looks cheap and lazy. It might be acceptable for a hobby animation, but a client would never accept it as a finished commercial animation. Everyone is so used to high-quality animation that they would nitpick it to death.

    You know, you just outllined one of the biggest problems...

    If this is supposed to be a pro-suite, blocking off tools hilariously undermines that...

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715
    skinklizzard said:

    Decided to give some fur on Daz dog 8 (golden lab) a try.

    still needs some more work as I was a tad uncontrolled with the clippers and shaved off some rather noticable cuts, also the fur on the ears is going the wrong way which I only noticed post render.

    as for some feature requests, options to select which brush settings are affected by pen pressure when using a tablet would be great (unless I'm just missing them)
    and if the reverse side and hidden masking of the paint section could be adjusted to try avoid the rather hard jagged edge it creates currently

    Damn, this is good; almost makes me want to get Dog 8; I'm a Cat person really.

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 5,961
    barbult said:
    RawArt said:
    barbult said:
    skinklizzard said:

    dforce hair appears to default to 1 (at least from the sample mohawk) and strand based to 3,

    Interesting. Since I am not a PA, I can only create Strand-Based hair, and that is what always defaults to 3 for me.

    has nothing to do with being a PA....that is a strand based factor

    I don't understand. Why does Strand-Based hair that I create always default to tesselation of 3, but dForce hair (which can only be created by PAs) default to tesselation of 1? Or was skinklizzard's post incorrect about that?

    Sorry, I didnt mean to confuse the issue. The point was that strand hair and dforce hair are the same thing. The only difference is that there are dforce modifiers attached to the strand hair.  As such the tesselation aspect of the hair should be the same.  I just know that the lower tesselations have been known to show odd dark patches in the furs that I made. This was apparently due to which way the strands were faceing when rendered. With a tesselation of 3.0 then the hair becomes and actual tube and will render properly from any angle.

     

  • skinklizzardskinklizzard Posts: 218
    RawArt said:

    Sorry, I didnt mean to confuse the issue. The point was that strand hair and dforce hair are the same thing. The only difference is that there are dforce modifiers attached to the strand hair.  As such the tesselation aspect of the hair should be the same.  I just know that the lower tesselations have been known to show odd dark patches in the furs that I made. This was apparently due to which way the strands were faceing when rendered. With a tesselation of 3.0 then the hair becomes and actual tube and will render properly from any angle.

    Ah ok that makes sense. I havent tried seeing how the ribbons render in different light situations and poses yet so I hadn't noticed, but yea if any of the hairs are curled or styled so that both sides are visible I'd assume one side would be darker because of normal orientations. This is good to know, future fur/hair I will have to try optimise other settings so that I can use a tesselation of 3 without my PC crying.

  • RawArtRawArt Posts: 5,961

    (only took me 5 characters to figure that out LOL)

     

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,933
    Mattymanx said:

    Once the strand based hair is converted to dForce hair, it can no longer be edited in the strand based hair editor.  This is true for everyone, PAs included.

    Really?!

    That's... inconvenient.

  • PsyckosamaPsyckosama Posts: 495
    Mustakettu85 said:
    Mattymanx said:

    Once the strand based hair is converted to dForce hair, it can no longer be edited in the strand based hair editor.  This is true for everyone, PAs included.

    Really?!

    That's... inconvenient.

    If we could still edit it, then it would hardly be a PA only feature and people could still make thier own hairs rather than shelling out for them individually.

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