dForce Hair (as well as strand based hair and the strand based hair editor) in public beta

DanaTA

Leonides02 said:

skinklizzard said:

algovincian said:

Has anybody rendered any energenic animations of this new strand-based dForce hair? I'm thinking something along these lines:

These tests were done in December of 2017, and the big fat hairs were meant to be like guide hairs to get some motion going (no real further development has been done).

- Greg

I rendered out a test of the femme fatale hair for you here

Thanks, Skink. The hair seems very "floaty," like she's dancing on the moon.

Or under water.

Dana

skinklizzard

Yea I think the floatyness is probably due to the global simulation settings I used as it wasn't as floaty in previous tests.

It's become a habit of mine to reduce the maximum allowed velocity (along with increasing subframes it helps to prevent cloth explosions when the cloth gets trapped between parts of the figure) but its evidently not a good idea when doing high dynamic animations/poses

but I can't remember what settings I used exactly and I made the mistake of rendering before saving the scene (it crashed on saving the video, had to go find the images from the temp folder)

L'Adair

I've continued to work on the short hair for G8M. There are now five copies of strand-based hair:

1. The original I used to style the hair. Full head, but with a new hair density map, with a hard edge.
2. Copy of 1, the original, with much lower density.
3. Copy of 1, with a new density map concentrating on the hairline, part, and sideburns.
4. Copy of 3, with lower density and messier.
5. Copy of 2, with even lower density, slightly longer and slightly further from the scalp.

With the additional hair at the hairline and part, the scalp from Retro Hair became too much, so I hid skull cap.

Here is a close up of the hair:

I also rendered it on several figures. If you're interested, you can see the comparison image in my WIPs thread here.

barbult

L'Adair said:

I've continued to work on the short hair for G8M. There are now five copies of strand-based hair:

1. The original I used to style the hair. Full head, but with a new hair density map, with a hard edge.
2. Copy of 1, the original, with much lower density.
3. Copy of 1, with a new density map concentrating on the hairline, part, and sideburns.
4. Copy of 3, with lower density and messier.
5. Copy of 2, with even lower density, slightly longer and slightly further from the scalp.

With the additional hair at the hairline and part, the scalp from Retro Hair became too much, so I hid skull cap.

Here is a close up of the hair:

I also rendered it on several figures. If you're interested, you can see the comparison image in my WIPs thread here.

Great progress!

algovincian

skinklizzard said:

algovincian said:

Has anybody rendered any energenic animations of this new strand-based dForce hair? I'm thinking something along these lines:

These tests were done in December of 2017, and the big fat hairs were meant to be like guide hairs to get some motion going (no real further development has been done).

- Greg

I rendered out a test of the femme fatale hair for you here

That does look spot on for an underwater sim!

- Greg

skinklizzard

I tried the hair again on a different animation and didn't limit the velocity this time, only setting changed from default was the frame per second multiplier set to 1 instead of 2.

Leonides02

skinklizzard said:

I tried the hair again on a different animation and didn't limit the velocity this time, only setting changed from default was the frame per second multiplier set to 1 instead of 2.

Still a little floaty but much better!

Mostly this just makes me sadder about not having more dForce hairs available to buy. 

nonesuch00

L'Adair said:

I've continued to work on the short hair for G8M. There are now five copies of strand-based hair:

1. The original I used to style the hair. Full head, but with a new hair density map, with a hard edge.
2. Copy of 1, the original, with much lower density.
3. Copy of 1, with a new density map concentrating on the hairline, part, and sideburns.
4. Copy of 3, with lower density and messier.
5. Copy of 2, with even lower density, slightly longer and slightly further from the scalp.

With the additional hair at the hairline and part, the scalp from Retro Hair became too much, so I hid skull cap.

Here is a close up of the hair:

I also rendered it on several figures. If you're interested, you can see the comparison image in my WIPs thread here.

Yes, lots of hard work & looks good but the dark roots are making the hair look like it's floating

PhilW

 

Mustakettu85 said:

PhilW said:

dForce Hair is very flexible, you can change the number/density of hairs, the thickness of each hair, the length (shortening it anyway), all under user control.

This is awesome :)

But what about options such as forehead height or hairline shape? I guess what I'd like to know is whether your dForce hair models are made on a skullcap (which can then be morphed at will to achieve those hairline variants) or whether they are generated directly on G8F. Well, I suspect that even in the latter case it might be possible to modify by introducing specific G8F morphs, of course... But will we be able then to use the model on G8M? If it's cap-based, then it can be parented to just about any figure. If it's not... Is it correct to assume that it's locked to the mesh it was generated on?

OK so I just got back after a couple of weeks holiday so apologies for not responding to any questions for a while - I'm going to trawl through this thread and resond, apologies if this repeats solutions that other people may have posted.

Both of my hairs are grown on caps so you have a couple of options to control where the hair grows - you could do your own morphs for the cap, but perhaps easier is you can make your own density maps for where the hair grows. If you add growth areas where there are no guide hairs then the results may be unpredictable but you could certainly pull the hairline back a bit for example.

WendyLuvsCatz

PhilW said:

 

Mustakettu85 said:

PhilW said:

dForce Hair is very flexible, you can change the number/density of hairs, the thickness of each hair, the length (shortening it anyway), all under user control.

This is awesome :)

But what about options such as forehead height or hairline shape? I guess what I'd like to know is whether your dForce hair models are made on a skullcap (which can then be morphed at will to achieve those hairline variants) or whether they are generated directly on G8F. Well, I suspect that even in the latter case it might be possible to modify by introducing specific G8F morphs, of course... But will we be able then to use the model on G8M? If it's cap-based, then it can be parented to just about any figure. If it's not... Is it correct to assume that it's locked to the mesh it was generated on?

OK so I just got back after a couple of weeks holiday so apologies for not responding to any questions for a while - I'm going to trawl through this thread and resond, apologies if this repeats solutions that other people may have posted.

Both of my hairs are grown on caps so you have a couple of options to control where the hair grows - you could do your own morphs for the cap, but perhaps easier is you can make your own density maps for where the hair grows. If you add growth areas where there are no guide hairs then the results may be unpredictable but you could certainly pull the hairline back a bit for example.

oh I was unaware of this or I would have grabbed one sooner 

my fault for not reading description, just saw G8F and G3F and decided to wait 

I will wait to see if those temporary PC+ things with a new release get better during the day though 

PhilW

escrandall said:

PhilW said:

I managed to squeeze in a "just for fun" render of Bridget with Longdrape Hair using the Dark Roots material and one of the Shorten options, Casual Springtime dForce outfit. Just a little postwork editing for levels etc. I hope you like it.

thanks! It was an insta-buy for me.    I haven't had much time to play (work called.  It looks great for when the torso is upright, but is there any way to keep the back part of the hair from slipping forward when she's bent over - like picking something up?  

You could add something like the face shield that I use for controlling the hair around the face - lay it across the shoulders to stop the hair draping forwards. Because it is dynamic, you never have complete control about how and where it hangs (which is part of the fun!) but using invisible collision objects can increase your level of control to get the results you want.

PhilW

nonesuch00 said:

DAZ bought their strand hair from a 3rd party as well.

Given my experience with clothing dForce products and hw glacially slow it simulates, when it doesn't 'explode' or 'crash' DS outright, I won't be buying any dForce hair either. 

dForce clothing and hair are different under the hood. dForce Hair is generally fast to drape and I haven't seen any issues with "exploding" and each hair is separate. I recommend giving it a try!

PhilW

thd777 said:

barbult said:

I haven't seen any user images using the dForce hair products in the store. Have I missed them? Is anybody having success with them?

@barbult I have both long hairs and the ponytail and used them several images, but I only post very few of my images, most are just for myself as illustrations for characters and events in stories I work on. Here is an example of a G8F based character wearing dForce clothing and the Femme Fatale hair.  I found that the long hairs work exceptionally well. They drape fast in single frame or animation and with all the options and the face shield that is included it is easy to achieve what I want. The pony tail I find that one less convincing. The way it is set up does not lead to very natural draping when the head angle is more extreme. It works well for simple portrait type shots and I am still happy with it.

Ciao

TD

Love this - I think that using both dynamic hair and clothing can give that extra level of realism.

PhilW

Redz said:

A couple of test renders with PhilW's lovely Femme Fatale Hair. I found the simulation time fast but pretty slow to render.

Love these images!

PhilW

skinklizzard said:

so with a bit of timeline shenanigins and moving around of primitives I have achieved my first attempt at making the dforce femme fatale hair into a ponytail.

The down side is that I don't think its possible to tell a dforce sim to start from a previous simulations end state, so any posing etc will have to come afterwards in the timeline and I'll need to sim the whole thing each time.

The band/scrunchie or whatever its called is not attached to anything at the moment but I'll probably just parent it to the head for posing for now, later I will try adding dforce to it and see how many times I can get it to explode.

That's very clever! 

Mustakettu85

PhilW said:

 

Mustakettu85 said:

PhilW said:

dForce Hair is very flexible, you can change the number/density of hairs, the thickness of each hair, the length (shortening it anyway), all under user control.

This is awesome :)

But what about options such as forehead height or hairline shape? I guess what I'd like to know is whether your dForce hair models are made on a skullcap (which can then be morphed at will to achieve those hairline variants) or whether they are generated directly on G8F. Well, I suspect that even in the latter case it might be possible to modify by introducing specific G8F morphs, of course... But will we be able then to use the model on G8M? If it's cap-based, then it can be parented to just about any figure. If it's not... Is it correct to assume that it's locked to the mesh it was generated on?

OK so I just got back after a couple of weeks holiday so apologies for not responding to any questions for a while - I'm going to trawl through this thread and resond, apologies if this repeats solutions that other people may have posted.

Both of my hairs are grown on caps so you have a couple of options to control where the hair grows - you could do your own morphs for the cap, but perhaps easier is you can make your own density maps for where the hair grows. If you add growth areas where there are no guide hairs then the results may be unpredictable but you could certainly pull the hairline back a bit for example.

Thanks a lot for answering! I was thinking more of pulling the hairline forward and/or adding a hint of a widow peak. Morphing the cap should work, I think. 

PhilW

Mustakettu85 said:

PhilW said:

 

Mustakettu85 said:

PhilW said:

dForce Hair is very flexible, you can change the number/density of hairs, the thickness of each hair, the length (shortening it anyway), all under user control.

This is awesome :)

But what about options such as forehead height or hairline shape? I guess what I'd like to know is whether your dForce hair models are made on a skullcap (which can then be morphed at will to achieve those hairline variants) or whether they are generated directly on G8F. Well, I suspect that even in the latter case it might be possible to modify by introducing specific G8F morphs, of course... But will we be able then to use the model on G8M? If it's cap-based, then it can be parented to just about any figure. If it's not... Is it correct to assume that it's locked to the mesh it was generated on?

OK so I just got back after a couple of weeks holiday so apologies for not responding to any questions for a while - I'm going to trawl through this thread and resond, apologies if this repeats solutions that other people may have posted.

Both of my hairs are grown on caps so you have a couple of options to control where the hair grows - you could do your own morphs for the cap, but perhaps easier is you can make your own density maps for where the hair grows. If you add growth areas where there are no guide hairs then the results may be unpredictable but you could certainly pull the hairline back a bit for example.

Thanks a lot for answering! I was thinking more of pulling the hairline forward and/or adding a hint of a widow peak. Morphing the cap should work, I think. 

Yes it should, but editing the density map should also work provided you don't go too mad with it.

nonesuch00

PhilW said:

nonesuch00 said:

DAZ bought their strand hair from a 3rd party as well.

Given my experience with clothing dForce products and hw glacially slow it simulates, when it doesn't 'explode' or 'crash' DS outright, I won't be buying any dForce hair either. 

dForce clothing and hair are different under the hood. dForce Hair is generally fast to drape and I haven't seen any issues with "exploding" and each hair is separate. I recommend giving it a try!

In that case, I will try. At least the straight long haired one in your posts seems most generally useful.

Leonides02

Okay, so I have to admit I was wrong.

Last week, I complained (loudly) about the lack of dForce on the SBH and how it was therefore useless. Of course, I'd barely played with the tool at that point. That was silly.

What I didn't realize is the SBH tools are A) quite powerful and intuitive and B) have built in collision detection (not perfect, but pretty good)! This makes draping the hairstyle actually fairly easy, fun, and less frustrating than I assumed. It also renders great with the new hair shader. 

The only issue I'm dealing with is the hair geomtry for a medium-length hair is coming in at 2 GB if I set the tessellation at 3.

Also... What is the tesselation? LOL. It seems to make the hair thicker?

 

Mattymanx

Leonides02 said:

Okay, so I have to admit I was wrong.

Last week, I complained (loudly) about the lack of dForce on the SBH and how it was therefore useless. Of course, I'd barely played with the tool at that point. That was silly.

What I didn't realize is the SBH tools are A) quite powerful and intuitive and B) have built in collision detection (not perfect, but pretty good)! This makes draping the hairstyle actually fairly easy, fun, and less frustrating than I assumed. It also renders great with the new hair shader. 

The only issue I'm dealing with is the hair geomtry for a medium-length hair is coming in at 2 GB if I set the tessellation at 3.

Also... What is the tesselation? LOL. It seems to make the hair thicker?

 

There is a TON of useful features in the surface tab for the hair.  Start there but start with tools that are from the editor before you mess with other things.  In the surface tab, you can change the seed amount of the hair to reduce it.  I found setting it to half of what they load up with was enough.

Eboshijaana

Mattymanx said:

Leonides02 said:

Okay, so I have to admit I was wrong.

Last week, I complained (loudly) about the lack of dForce on the SBH and how it was therefore useless. Of course, I'd barely played with the tool at that point. That was silly.

What I didn't realize is the SBH tools are A) quite powerful and intuitive and B) have built in collision detection (not perfect, but pretty good)! This makes draping the hairstyle actually fairly easy, fun, and less frustrating than I assumed. It also renders great with the new hair shader. 

The only issue I'm dealing with is the hair geomtry for a medium-length hair is coming in at 2 GB if I set the tessellation at 3.

Also... What is the tesselation? LOL. It seems to make the hair thicker?

 

There is a TON of useful features in the surface tab for the hair.  Start there but start with tools that are from the editor before you mess with other things.  In the surface tab, you can change the seed amount of the hair to reduce it.  I found setting it to half of what they load up with was enough.

Where can you change the seed amount in the surface tab?

skinklizzard

Leonides02 said:

Okay, so I have to admit I was wrong.

Last week, I complained (loudly) about the lack of dForce on the SBH and how it was therefore useless. Of course, I'd barely played with the tool at that point. That was silly.

What I didn't realize is the SBH tools are A) quite powerful and intuitive and B) have built in collision detection (not perfect, but pretty good)! This makes draping the hairstyle actually fairly easy, fun, and less frustrating than I assumed. It also renders great with the new hair shader. 

The only issue I'm dealing with is the hair geomtry for a medium-length hair is coming in at 2 GB if I set the tessellation at 3.

Also... What is the tesselation? LOL. It seems to make the hair thicker?

 

 

Tessellation is basically how many sides the hair will have when it is converted from curves to geometry for rendering, tessellation of 2 makes each hair strand a ribbon, 3 makes each strand a triangular tube etc.

so higher tessellation makes for more geometry, so does a lower interpolation segment length.

Gone

Made a simple short hair on a G1 hair cap and applied it to a variety of generations.

For M4, the cap was parented and scaled to 103%. The rest were autofitted. M4 and G8M are base while the rest have some morphs dialed in. No tweaking was done to the hair it was just applied to the character as is.

Rendered in 3delight.

Diomede

@PhilW - thanks for checking the forums and answering questions.  Most excellent.  I admit that I have not installed the latest Daz beta so please take certain ignorance on my part into account. A key issue for me is how much control I will have with dforce strand based hair.  Based on your answers to questions here, even though I would not have complete control of DForce hair as a non-PA, if I buy a DForce strand based hair from a Daz PA and install the beta, I would still be able to make some adjustments. OK, how much?  Is it possible to give me an idea of how much customization is possible if I buy a PA dynamic strand based hair, how much subsequent control does a user have over length, density, style, etc. with a pre-bought dynamic strand based hair?

nonesuch00

Gone said:

Made a simple short hair on a G1 hair cap and applied it to a variety of generations.

For M4, the cap was parented and scaled to 103%. The rest were autofitted. M4 and G8M are base while the rest have some morphs dialed in. No tweaking was done to the hair it was just applied to the character as is.

Rendered in 3delight.

nice job

Leonides02

Gone said:

Made a simple short hair on a G1 hair cap and applied it to a variety of generations.

For M4, the cap was parented and scaled to 103%. The rest were autofitted. M4 and G8M are base while the rest have some morphs dialed in. No tweaking was done to the hair it was just applied to the character as is.

Rendered in 3delight.

That looks fantastic.

Leonides02

skinklizzard said:

Leonides02 said:

Okay, so I have to admit I was wrong.

Last week, I complained (loudly) about the lack of dForce on the SBH and how it was therefore useless. Of course, I'd barely played with the tool at that point. That was silly.

What I didn't realize is the SBH tools are A) quite powerful and intuitive and B) have built in collision detection (not perfect, but pretty good)! This makes draping the hairstyle actually fairly easy, fun, and less frustrating than I assumed. It also renders great with the new hair shader. 

The only issue I'm dealing with is the hair geomtry for a medium-length hair is coming in at 2 GB if I set the tessellation at 3.

Also... What is the tesselation? LOL. It seems to make the hair thicker?

 

 

Tessellation is basically how many sides the hair will have when it is converted from curves to geometry for rendering, tessellation of 2 makes each hair strand a ribbon, 3 makes each strand a triangular tube etc.

so higher tessellation makes for more geometry, so does a lower interpolation segment length.

Thanks for the answer. Very helpful. 

MelanieL

Gone said:

Made a simple short hair on a G1 hair cap and applied it to a variety of generations.

For M4, the cap was parented and scaled to 103%. The rest were autofitted. M4 and G8M are base while the rest have some morphs dialed in. No tweaking was done to the hair it was just applied to the character as is.

Rendered in 3delight.

That looks really good - the hairline and parting seem very natural. (Of course you were always a dab hand with Garibaldi, as I recall, so perhaps you have a head start)

Gone

Thanks for the comments guys. :)

Yeah, the creation/styling process is virtually the same so it was an easy transition.

Leonides02

Gone said:

Thanks for the comments guys. :)

Yeah, the creation/styling process is virtually the same so it was an easy transition.

Any tips? :)