A Modest Propopsal to Address the Lack of Male Stuff
Sevrin
Posts: 6,310
in The Commons
Out in the real world, there's something called a "Pink Tax" charged on items intended for use by women. What I'd like to suggest that PAs charge a "Blue Tax", that is, offer items for male characters at a higher price than they would charge for an item made for female characters requiring equivalent effort, in order to make up for the lower sales volume.
Not Kidding!
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Comments
If you want to support male items then just buy them...?
In order to buy them, they have to be made ;). And not too much is. Also, I buy all I can, but I don't buy stuff that's not quality, and a lot of the male stuff isn't on par with the quality of female things.
I'm with you on that. Male items might sell better if the quality was there. I don't know any guys who wear pants that are glossy and shiny.
This. There is lots of subpar male clothing available for G8M, but that seems to have ceased along with the Pro Bundles that contained it. I'd really like to commission Luthbel to make some outfits, but I'd need a few other customers to join with me in order for it to be feasible.
That could be self defeating by further reducing the number of sales.
Daz could encourage male content by taking a smaller cut.
This right here is why I don't buy much stuff for guys. So many outfits I see are so smooth like simple cylinders, there's no texture to anything, it doesn't match the realism of the characters themselves. I have one set of jeans I found that I pretty much only use from the outsider outfit, one suit from G3 that I was using but now I found one off site that looks super great that I'll use, and the outfit set of polo and khakis from mal3imagery which looks fantastic, that's all I really go to in my library. Of course there's things for fantasy and sci fi that look great that I'm not talking about here, but for regular every day clothing, a lot of it I wouldn't spend anything for and has kept me from picking up some pro bundles because I can't see spending any amount for it. I'd for sure buy more if the quality was there but I also wouldn't buy anything if there was a "blue tax" (I do think it's bologna that women have to deal with that in the real world).
Okay, as a PA, I can address this and I'm not telling any secrets.
For a very long time, female stuff historicall outsold male stuff (with some exceptions - my male poses did better than their female equivalents, but I was the exception to the rule.) While most of the PAs would totally support the male figures, historically the customers would favor the female stuff - particularly the skimpy female gear. And this pretty much held true for most of the time that I've been a PA. Periodically a PA would test the waters, so you'd still get the male products showing up. However, it didn't prove to be economically viable for the PAs to continue to put out male content, when they could make twice to quadruple the amount a female set would get. (I continue to support the male figures, but, as I've said, I'm one of those on the fringe who make money with male content - not enough, mind you, but I think that's a function of how pose sets are viewed in the market, rather than a statement of anything else.) And, to be honest, this is a business for most of us. We have to consider what will sell versus what our muse might be saying. It's lovely when the two converge, but that doesn't often happen in a niche market like this.
Then within the last year, possibly two, the market has shifted. According to what we've heard from Daz, the gap between female and male set's popularity has dwindled and now they're about neck and neck. Because it's been so ingrained for so long, it'll take some time to break the conditioning, but you already are seeing more male oriented stuff in the store - much moreso than when I started as a PA ten years ago. I can speak to the fact that I know some of the older, seasoned PAs are starting to turn their eyes towards male content in the coming months. And there are far more new PAs getting into the field than ever before, so there's an influx of talent that hasn't been conditioned to think they only need to build skimp-ware in order to pay the bills. So I think you'll start to see a lot more male oriented content (apart from poses, 'cause I'm just going to keep making them) coming through the market.
And to address the comment about quality, I totally agree with you. Skimp-ware doesn't take a lot really, to churn it out, so quality isn't as obvious as it is on say, tailored outfits for the guys. Keep in mind, however, that some things in the technology fight with the PAs and we can't always produce the level of realism - don't even get me started on weight mapping and rigging a pair of pants. The crotch area is a nightmare! But things like textures...yeah, you're right. The linen slacks should not have a plastic sheen, thankyouverymuch. I don't buy anything for the female characters, either, if the texturing and the modeling are sloppy. Not to sound snobbish - I'm picky. But that's neither here nor there. You're always going to get a wide variety in skill levels in the PAs who put products together here at DAZ - and I guarantee most of them will improve in their careers. I know products I made ten years ago aren't as refined as the ones I make nowadays.
That being said, I really do think you'll find more and more support for the male figures in the coming months.
Male clothing is often lower quality than the female variety. I'm guessing that it is because men's clothes need more buttons, zippers and belts and perhaps these things don't work too well with either Marvelous Designer or dForce. I still use G3M instead of G8M (although the opposite for G8F/G3F). I have a couple of pairs of jeans and a couple of shirts and a couple more T-Shirts but often my men end up wearing the Run With It set because that set is so well made and easy to fit. I think that's why it is used in so many promo images too.
Actually, that reflects my own wardrobe fairly accurately so I'm not sure I would buy much more.
Or have no fly or waistband...lol. I've seen pants that have neither and they look like elastic waistbands - just wrong ;).
What I don't like is the male clothing that has a very obvious wrinkle to make it look like fabric. No matter what pose the figure is in, the wrinkle stays exactly the same in exactly the same place. This alone makes that piece of clothing worth zero to me.
For reference, I buy almost every single Luthbel outfit in the genres I work in. The two recent outfits by Protozoon and mal3Imagery went into my cart so fast, it would make your head spin. LOL
LOL. I think it is in keeping with department store clothing... the woman have much more to choose from on two floors, and the men's clothing is all on one floor, if that.
So suppose they make as many male items and clothing on DAZ as female items. Would that mean they would sell? I want more male clothing, hair and figures too, but trying to be realistic here.
If the market isn't there, the market isn't there.
I pass by a store that is closing, I feel sad for the people who own the store, but me going into the store to buy 3 pairs of pants isn't gonna save the store.
If the store isn't going to exist, nothing that I can do will change the direction of the store. The market isn't there.
The market for male stuff isn't the same as female stuff. (as repeated multiple times.)
I hear children can be quite tasty?
Encouraging people to buy male stuff by putting the price up?
Exactly how would this increase sales? Normal economic theory would indicate a reduction in sales from such an idea. It tends to be only extreme luxury items sold to the ultra rich where increasing price increases sales.
What is the problem with accepting that the male figure market is smaller than that for females? I have never once bought a male garment. Not going to, not interested. Males are so much less attractive than females. It appears that the only male garments I have are part of the G*M starter bundles.
If the market is too small, with insufficient quantity of quality items for you, can I encourage you to remedy the situation yourself. Modelling software is available to all, with Hexagon and Blender being free. Admittedly modelling skills are rarer, and I don't have them, but it's said practice makes perfect. It is a situation that has been going on for years, and I have seen similar posts bemoaning the lack of male clothing for years. I think all avenues except the DIY one have been exhausted by now.
Regards,
Richard.
This is really interesting and thank you for sharing it. I've had a zero-evidence hunch that Daz has broadened its userbase, if only because 3D is becoming more accessible/popular.
Thank you for this info.
This is not a post bemoaning anything. I don't buy a lot of male stuff because I don't want it. This would be to encourage the production of male stuff for the benefit of people decrying the lack thereof. If people want something as much as they say they do a few extra bucks shouldn't be an issue.
And here I was thinking that the title of the thread was a clue that you weren't being serious.
Well, to be fair, eating virtual clothing would be unusually difficult. Even for virtual people.
Much more often in the DAZ Store male products do cost more than female products. And that "Pink Tax" is often self inflected "as in" insisting on paying more when a cheap house brand is as good or better quality and could of been bought instead. Seen it too many times.
TBF my solution in the real world for the "Pink Tax" is to just buy the mens version if its cheaper
Which would suggest the solution here is just to have all your male characters crossdress :)
I render exclusively male stuff. I would gladly pay for well-made men's content. I'm not interested in dforce tube wear, or dforce as substitution for fits, female pelvises or groin clamps looking scifi suits, female fit unisex hair, barbarian warrior wear, world of Warcraft knockoff outfits corset wear,goth wear or anything from a recognizable property like Star Wars, trek or games. I have it. Don't need it.
what I am looking for is classic contemporary wear, and scifi wear, as well as military outfits. A decent underwear and sock set, men's ties, sportswear, outdoor wear,clothing, sweaters, shirts with collars, buttons and sleeves, realistic shoes. Contemporary scifi wear like characters might wear in down time. Footwear with laces or ties. Shoes with treads. Pants with flaps, button,and seams. Shoes and socks. Gun holsters. Flight suits. Puffer jackets.
hair: male hairlines. A style that could be long, tied back, up, or short. Wet hair. Sideburns. Not like the seventies ones but shorter razored ones. Men's brows and lashes.
clubwear for guys, slacke/loungewear, slippers, shirts with designs on them, shirts to hang around the waist, low rise pants,bicycle gear, shorts top and helmet.
complete suits from pants jackets suits and ties. A tie with morphs. Real collars.
Old men with 40 year old styles.
I remember what I wore 40 years ago, and none of it was glossy or shiny. You're thinking 60 year old styles.
Leather can be glossy Latex more so
especially when weilding a whip
And never goes out of style!
I stopped thinking about styles 20 years ago.