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Well, it was 40 years ago when I stopped thinking about styles 20 years ago.
Amen! I still have a closet and suitcases full of leather. Pants, shirts, motorcycle jackets & jumpsuits, hats, gloves, vests.
Also harnesses, armbands, wristbands, & collars.
The trouble is, they have all apparently shrunk considerably. Especially around the waist.
Except for the armbands. They have apparenty gotten larger. and could now be used as collars
And yet, it all still comes out of the closet every year and gets cleaned and polished. The whips too.
But they have to be impractical and have bizarre cutouts to equal the female clothing.
Oh, the impractical outfits with bizarre cutouts are already happening, just not at DAZ. There are several PAs who are now making the male equivalent of skimpwear at some of the other stores and some of them seem to be doing quite well. The problem at DAZ, I suspect, is that there are three prominent problems that have to be specifically addressed when it comes to making that type of male garments... all located just below the beltline... that make crafting realistic versions of things like speedos, briefs and tights far more difficult to make due to their... um... constantly shifting nature... and DAZ has historically seemed to have little interest in products that focused on that area. Sickleyield actually made a product a few years back called the Pants Masculinizer that was a good start at getting a grip on the basic problem, but unfortunately DAZ declined to handle it and it went instead to her (no longer active) Renderosity Store instead. Maybe the time is right for a G8 version?
The lack of promotion of male items doesn't help. I'm pretty sure there won't be an male equivalent of the recent "Genesis 8 Female Clothing Mega Sale". Not to mention the number of products for males, where the main promo image shows only a female character.
There were quite a bit of metallics, shiny leathers and vinyls in the 80s... or have you forgotten Hammer pants, NuWave and all the Michael Mackson/Punk and Break dancer wannabes? Like Puffer vests, I think a lot of us just choose not to remember it until we see Marty McFly yet again. Granted, there was a LOT more on the female side and the majority of the male stuff was clubwear as most employers still had fairly restrictive dress codes, but the 80s were really the last gasp of radical fashion statements. By the end of the decade things had narrowed down to stuff that still looks current, but it was definitely there, in quantity, during the the early and middle parts.
A few things come to mind...
- Better quality, as others have said.
- Competitive pricing. Quality male clothing seems to be higher priced, very often scaring off potential buyers. Then, the powers that be say, "Look, no one buys male clothing, I guess we shouldn't make any. Back to the girlish skimpwear!" The idea that no one wants good male clothing becomes a self-fulfilling propechy.
- Adaptability and versatility. Offer more than just one or two textures, or even better, make an outfit more modular, like a men's dress shirt with differne collar styles, cuffs, etc. In other words allow the end user the ability to customize it just a bit to make it more unique. I can't tell you how many graphic comics I've read where the male characters are all wearing the same outfits. The author/artist has done his best to add different colors and such in an attempt to make them seem unique and different, but there's only so much that can occur to set them apart.
- Actually make the clothing more "real world." This goes for female clothing, too. Fantasy has its place, but usable and realistic clothing like my peers wear to work is rarely seen. Seriously, I go to work in a nice pair of dress shoes, nice upscale cargo pants or goodlooking clean jeans, a button down shirt and a funny Peanuts or Dr. Suess tie, something like that. It isn't too highbrow, but its enough to be professional and comfortable all at the same time. We need more things like this.
Well, that "girls only" starts to backfire... I have so many different girls, I have no need in any new ones. Same applies to clothing. Some more interesting clothing you do not find on DAZ anyway - too...revealing.
Quite a lot of casual or business everyday mens clothing is just low quality. I have not found e.g a suit that remotely looks like a real suit. I admit that modelling pants is more complex than skirts, but if pants can be done for females, then why is it so hard to do the same for males?
There is a famous quote about good/fast/cheap, you can often have two of the three. Men's clothing is as niche in the 3D world as the real world. It is very common to have tightly form fitting clothing for women in both the real world and the 3d world so, from the start, it will always be easier and cheaper to make women's clothing. Next, the volume of women's clothing that is purchased is vastly different; there is the rare woman who has two pairs of shoes, one blouse, one pair of jeans but that that describes a narge number of men. You are unlikely to ever get cheaper prices because people are buying men's 3d clothing in bulk. Finally, the complicated modelling required for men's clothes require more time/higher cost, lower sales/higher risk. and one still has to deal with the divide of those who make modeled wrinkles and dforce. These creators don't have the "well, I can always make another bikini, fantasy thong armor, sexy set" to create the products we want. What exactly are we offrering to give them an incentive to make the products we want? It isn't Daz's job to subsidize uneconomical models and the can't do it without raising prices elsewhere. What i do see here is any idea of what we will do to make male clothes more economical.
Nah, increasing prices on products that already don't sell that well is absolutely not going to help.
One thing that might help, I think, would be advancements in dForce. Currently basically everything falls like silk satin. If we could simulate stiffer and thicker fabrics it might be easier to make menswear that looks more convincing.
I suppose the "niche" thing is kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. The store does not offer too many male clothing items. And if so, they are rather low quality. Of course, no one will realistically buy that. And then "nobody buys male clothing". Yes, of course, because is low quality or crap...
On the other hand, we get offered about 10 to 15 new female characters per average week. I have them in abundance, and they start to look familiar. Very familiar. You can spot the PA in an instance... And, since female clothing seems to sell automatically, the quality also goes down. Not with all PAs. Some still maintain a high level of quality. Some run for the quick dollar. I do keep lists of PA's... some managed to jump to my blacklist. Some are on my "platinum" list, because they do not only produce quality stuff, but also are collecting feedback and responding to criticism.
About the "niche" term, inthe US, the women's clothing market is roughly 6 times the size of the male clothing market and 3 times the size of the children's clothing market. I think even if one opened up more men's clothing stores, one could not bridge this gap. People in the store occasionally buy expensive sets of women's clothes, and even more rarely, expensive men's clothes. If it is merely a self fulfilling prophecy, then they should be buying them st the same rate. Likewise, pose sales which are some of the most inexpensive products in the store (and have pretty much the same quality male vs female) still trend to higher female sales. So, no.
Well, it is a circle.
The lack of quality male stuff on offer results in some people focusing on using female stuff for their renders, signalling a lack of interest in male stuff, resulting in a lack of quality male stuff on offer.
I know this from my own experience. I actually decided to create a world where men are a significant minority in the population. Not that I wanted to, but it was the only logical solution.
Speaking of self-fulfilling prophecies, I wonder how many people don't buy men's clothing 'because they are low quality.'
"Speaking of self-fulfilling prophecies, I wonder how many people don't buy men's clothing 'because they are low quality.'" Well, an example I think illustrates that there is more than self fulfilling prophecies going on is a store like Alexander McQueen. This is a very high end store with $3000 shirts. The craftmenship of both the men's clothes and the women's clothes (partial handsewn in Europe) is as good as you can get but they still sell roughly 5 x women clothes. Ah, you say, but men don't have the financial resources to spend big money on clothes especially while there are sports cars and stadium skyboxes to pay for. Err, no. Men are not in the public eye like women? Nope, they are and do buy expensive clothes but in less volume.
*raises hand*
I'm always on the lookout for stuff, but I'm not going to use something that will turn into a stretched and deformed mess as soon as the character is posed out of a straight A position. That has to be one of my biggest gripes on the (sadly) vast majority of clothing out there for the boys (and girls). There are some top-shelf exceptions, but those exceptions seem to be increasingly more rare.
Another beef is a disturbing lack of detail, as others have said. Two round tubes does not a pair of pants make. Shirt sleeves are another problem area...at the shoulder and at the cuff.
If only we could get Protozoon to make a really nice looking suit. We have a spectacular looking tux now ;)
Laurie
The difference with 3D men being that we don't have to fit just one, but sometimes many in a scene. When you only have a few things, it gets difficult to make them all look like they're wearing something different, as someone has already mentioned. I have no problem buying more than one version of jeans, or sneakers, or shirts or tees - even suits.
Luckily for me, I rarely ever find the need for clothing. But I do notice the lack of good realistic male garments.
I had to turn down a story illustration gig a couple of months ago, because I could not find a realistic butler tuxedo. Sure there are a couple of them for older generations, but I already knew that it world not fit G8M very well.
As far as "taxing" goes....raising the price on anything is absolutely not going to encourage me to buy it. LOL
But I do find some pants with textures that remind me of 1970s double knit fabric. (Trust me, I was there! hahaha)
Have you seen this wip? https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/6331151/#Comment_6331151 ;
edit: LOL. I just saw that you posted in that thread.
I just saw it after I posted the above. LOL
Laurie
It's like pounding a nail in with your forehead this topic lol. Vendors just say male clothes don't sell well, customers point out that the male clothing on offer is like 1994 poser quality, so of course it don't sell well. Round and round. I chose to stop buying vitrual clothes altogether for a period of time, and save for marvelous designer instead to solve the problem myself lol.
Luckily we have some quality flat heeled shoes for females that can be autofitted just ok for males. I would be quite happy to see more unisex compatible models for Male and female, and the shoes can be branded female and autofitted fpr males because flat shoes usually autofit well. But I guess ... high heeled shoes just sell a lot better, and generally I'm under the impression footwear is not a department that most users seem to be interested in. A lot, if not most renders of DAZ females I see don't feature shoes.
I think there's more to it than just a vendor's return on investment. These people who create content are also artists, and artists have their own inspirations. I would be surprised if there are artists making content they don't like making purely because it sells. I think you aren't going to create something of quality if isn't something you find inspriational and enjoy making it.
Well, obviously. Otherwise there would be even less content for male characters.
Artists: Starving is overrated.
There's quite a bit off stuff in the store that's uninspired and joyless. And then there's amazing stuff anyone would be proud to have made.
Nothing is "out of context". I quoted the post in its entirety.
i waiting for a sephiroth
Sephiroth vs. Genesis vs. Angeal (Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII) 4K
those Final Fantasy Bois can wear most of the DAZ female clothes, heels and hair crossfitted