Update to Genesis 8 Figure Teased - Daz Blog
Sevrin
Posts: 6,310
So I saw this tweet from Daz3D about this recent blog post, an interview with Daz's art director Corey Belina. In there, there was this
We can’t wait. Related: what cool functionality, and capabilities can we look forward to from Daz and Daz Studio?
So far I’ve mostly been working on expanding Daz 3D’s ever growing animation library, tightening up Daz Bridges, and bringing amazing new characters to Daz. A decent-sized update to our Genesis 8 character may be in the works… I’d tell you more, but it’s too early to get fired for breaching an NDA.
So that's interesting. And it makes sense. Genesis 9 will carry the burden of some very high expectations, and won't necessarily be welcomed by a lot of people, but an update to the Genesis 8 base figure could be a very cool thing. The devil is in the details, of course, and none are provided. And "decent-sized" suggests that we shouldn't get our hopes up all that much. Right now, those who know, and that likely includes select PAs, aren't telling.
Enhanced skin shaders? Improved eyeball geometry? DForce hair improvements? Those are a few things off the top of my head that wouldn't break compatibility with existing libraries of assets...
I guess we'll see?
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Comments
If this means we'll get improved figures without breaking what we already have, I'm very excited!
We'll see.
Carrara and Poser compatibility
(yes I am a dreamer)
I read that last night, and I was going to comment on the blog, but they now require the use of an outside (Google, Facebook, etc.) sign-in in order to comment. Hopefully, twisty biceps fix and wonky lats fix are on the G8 update list.
It wasn't clear how responsible Mr. Belina is for the direction of Juan Carlos 8, Millawa 8, Freja 8, and Kjaer 8, but I'm very pleased with those characters (aside from Kjaer's head morph being a bit game/generic), and if we're going to get more characters along that level, I'm excited.
What I am paying most attention to right now is whether we are going to need to upgrade to DS4.14 in order to use it.
If it's backwards compatible to DS4.12, then fine. If not, I will wait here for you.
I'm a Mac user, and have dug in with Mojave for as long as this particular computer holds out. There are too many incomaptible changes in progress to the underlying tech for me to go leaping whenever anyone says frog.
Perhaps we're finally getting the unflatable functionality for the core figures.
Or a backwards-compatible Spuggles morph.
Or they've managed to reduce the polycount to Lara Croft original resolution
(don't mind me - just being silly in the lead-up to Christmas - finished my first term of teaching at a secondary school and the kids have been a bad influence on me, lol)
Please make better hair.
I know, I know... But I truly believe that is where we fall short. G8 is amazing in many ways and approaches photorealism.
Except for the damn hair!
I'm a huge fan of Belina's impact so far.
I feel the same. dForce hair is a step in the right direction, but for many purposes, high-quality transmapped hair, with or without dForce enhancement, still renders better.
In that case you need to make a choice: better hair, or faster renders.
Transmapped hair can look great, but outside of poses the morphs work well for - it is abismal.
Dforce hair, particularly strand based, looks great and with some care really great.
Generally, I prefer Blender's rendering of hair - not transmapped.
I choose better hair over faster renders.
Well there was this line in the change log
Source maintenance
Update to NVIDIA Iray 2020.1.2 (334300.5582)
Added pbr_skin.mdl shader
DAZ Studio : Incremented build number to 4.14.1.12
Richard Haseltine
wrote It doesn't yet have user-facing files, so there's not much you can do with it I'm afraid.
when asked about the inclusion to the latest beta
So something is in the works Wondering now if the skin shader for mdl and filiment as well might just be rolled out with an update to Genesis 8
I think better eye geometry and hair with an updated skin shader which is very lacking since the main content provided by daz are humaniod figures is be top of my wish list and just might be answered.
not one for animation but think a lot of tinkering under the hood is required inrespect of dforce and strand based hair.
Has Corey Belina been brought in to push Daz content to the next level which would perhaps appeal to indy and larger studios and freelance artists alike ?
As long as they update products that any changes break. Frustrating to have bought products that get broken and never updated.
Agree on the better hair comments!
To me, Daz seems to be in a weird place - the mesh is too low res now for stills work, but OK for animation. You can create broad shaping morphs and that's it. Yet most use Daz for stills. Think about it - the figures from 20 years ago have higher poly counts, and the hardware we have now is mind-blowingly more powerful.
There's the obvious vastly different goals - animation, where you're generally aiming for speed, and stills, where you're generally aiming for detail.
Maybe Gen 9 we can get much higher poly counts, and a built in decimator for the animation?
For strand based hair, I think the SBH editor does not offer enough controls for hair modelers to create good hair models, compared to other guide based hair generation systems. Given its restrictions I think the PAs have done excellent work. I haven't touched rendering in DAZ for a long time now so I don't know whether the SBH editor has received some major update. At its release it's difficult and especially time-consuming to create SBH in DAZ.
Oh course it's entirely possible to import hair generated in other apps to be rendered in DAZ. Yes, this is a lot of polygons ... I have done this before, and DAZ handles it way better than I assumed it would. Render times is not longer than either comparable native SBH, but it slows the scene considerably given how much geometry it is. I don't think this is suitable for the DAZ store so it's entirely understandable why those hairs are not sold in the DAZ store.
Agree!!! But all that could be solved if DAZ would free the technology to create HD morphs so that all users and not only PAs can work on HD resolution. And no, using displacement maps is not the same for many reasons.
I'd rather a full-fledged Gen9. No one has to upgrade and those of us that want to would get a brand new figure.
That said, I'm still interested in the potential here.
For me, the hair is okay. It is the clothing that looks really horrible, especially the male clothing. We are still dealing with much the same structural issues which debuted with genesis. Stretchy buckles, weird straps, no seams, clothing lacks detail etc.
things seem to be headed the other way
more PA only features to make a basic mesh useable is more likely
That's like saying there's no need for next gen consoles because what would they bring? More triangles?
The answer is simple - better technology allows for greater possibilities.
I don't see how G8 updates (or G9) would lead to better hair, since all hair is separate from the base figures.
Better muscle deformation for posing would be great, though...
Better facial expressions are always welcome, too.
Read what marth_e wrote... more polygons is needed because the base mesh resolution is far too low to do anything with other than basic shape changes. Yes, there's displacement maps but it's a huge PITA compared to using a bridge like Daz GoZ to Zbrush, sculpt changes, then bam GoZ back to Daz. For example, there's lots of interest out there for Trek and Star Wars stuff, but since it's IP it can't be sold commercially. Want to do some forehead ridges for a Klingon? Not with the base mesh you're not.
Keeping the polygons low makes sense with the computer hardware we had years ago, but look at the hardware available to regular consumers now. The Unreal Engine 5 demo is amazing, AND running on a console.
Are you sure you're taking into account all of the implications of a denser base mesh? There are reasons that HD add-ons exist (as opposed to just making a denser base mesh). DAZ doesn't take this approach simply to annoy people - give them a little credit.
You have to consider the amount of data for each character "morph" for a figure. This isn't just the basic figure shape, but all of the JCMs, etc. as well. There are already major issues with load times for base figures if you have a lot of morphs, not to mention lag during posing, etc. There would be other un-intended consequences, too - like the time it takes the smoothing modifier to calculate or dForce simulations to run, the system resources required for everything, etc.
- Greg
That may be true if you don't have enough horsepower, but since we'll never be able to morph in HD that's our only alternative.
With Nvidia 3000 series cards on the market, 2000 series should see a serious price drop when they become more widely available. And I'm still working on a 1000 series... not enough horsepower shouldn't be an excuse for long, if now even.
Also watch the video - decimation is all done inside the engine. That's the beauty of it. You work in your high detail versions, then there's no need for multiple versions of the same mesh and possibly textures optimizing for hardware or viewing distance.
I have seen the video a long time ago, but the issues I'm talking about come way before anything is ever rendered. That's the part you may be missing. Not everything lends itself to parallel processing that can be accelerated by a GPU. As a matter of fact, many operations in DS don't even utilize multiple CPU cores.
You could see for yourself by using the Transfer Utility to create a higher resolution G8 base. You'll quickly find out what working with such a figure is like firsthand.
- Greg
I'm intrigued as you said the Transfer Utility, I thought that only transferred rigging for clothing items... is there a trick to create a figure?
For kicks I tried it, ran just fine didn't seem any slower bending the noodles. Granted I have a Threadripper, but it's first gen and all the extra cores aren't really doing anything for me in Daz.
What would offer Gen9 than the actual Gen8 couldn't?
more polygons?, are not having enough with SubD level 5?
8K normative textures?, can your PC handle such sizes? or gonna use the infamous V3D Optimizer in secrecy? [like many of us but we don't want to tell you]
better rigging? irrelevant because will be PA products for fix bending issues like all the past generations...but if you will add child bones for areola and nipples maybe...nah!
A new Caucasian face?, what can be done actually with G8 and the gazillion of morphs available right now.
Compatibility? is necessary?, Genesis2 is starving because nobody likes he/she, is the same path to Gen8 when Gen9 releases perhaps?
A need for sell more bundles? very probably, new year, new figure, and probably the only reason to remain intact in this business is the novelty of products.
New Gen9 line up?, of course, Michael9, Victoria9, Aiko9, and the rest of official figures that even never got a Gen2 or Gen3.
my toughts...going to buy?, of course you will, and you will rant about "I can't do this, my gen9 presents this issue, Gen9 Zbrush Level can't run on my GT650, shame daz! and blablabla"
I suppose the best thing would be to enhance Gen8, not to generate a Gen9. Perhaps a more natural bending, a way to stop body parts protuding while posing. But I guess that is mainly Studio enhancements, e.g. collision detection when posing a figure, or placing an object. As long as you have to hammer ALL textures of a scene into the VRAM of your GPU to make Iray work, higher resolutiion textures are not really a good idea.