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I prefer jumping to Genesis 9 .
Let Daz start the line of work again And a long-term, strategic production path built on new technology .
What would be groovy is a new 'product line of clothing' that drops whatever is holding back dForce clothing so that it fits and drapes quick and realistically everytime you change the model's pose.
and doesn't explode
i gonna be the "non" lovable opnion about the "poly count" it still and still gonna be a issue in new generation games, i really don't wat to see poly count go crazy, we already have "insane high poly outfits, props and hairs, making a a high poly character only gonna work for "still images" users" for peoples like me looking for "game" they are pretty useless and it gonna make daz losing those users, which will not be good since they are trying to "bring those peoples", peoples for animation and game which do need "less poly" than "more poly".
for me what i would like to see as improviment for g8, a option to have all "body parts texture" assembled in a single material instead of one material for each body piece, while for stuffs, like eyes, lips and mouth i can understand have they own map, things like amrs, legs and body, for me look a little too much, another improviment would be make the materials more pbr based, maybe some more jcm to improve character deforms and stuffs like that.
I care NOTHING for animation. Zero interest. Maybe they think a movie studio is going to use DAZ content to create feature films, or TV series.
The body parts texture isn't going to happen, consider having a head, torso, legs, arms all at 4k maps as it is. To keep that same resolution on a single map would kill a lot of peoples systems or exceed the max limit in some editing programs. Some tools like substance painter can help...well I haven't checked lately it was buggy and just released but you could paint and texture across the body parts seamlessly. I'm working on a reverse camera projector painter for g8 but I don't know when that will be done.
As a long time game dev myself I hear your pain on the polycount. I use decimate and LOD stuff I bring in from Daz. I still need to break open the new Unity and Unreal bridges.
The characters aren't usually the issue when decimated, it's the hair. The hair you can't decimate without making it look they need Rogaine. And hair can have as much of a polycount or even greater than the rest of the chracter. So my solution is to never use Daz hair for that purpose....well sort of. There are tricky things that I can do with some hair when converting them to NURBS and then back to a Mesh that make them look soso.
As an artist however I would LOVE to see us to be able blender G8s in HD and bring them back in, but since that is a gift only the PA's allowed to have I doubt we will get it.
The polygon count is the major reason non PA's can't make extremely detailed characters, anything you do in blender geometry wise that is HD is lost and the character flatened. This is why all the G8 characters all still pretty much exactly the same and we don't have more life like or REAL PEOPLE like options availble.
Actually they have done that, I even saw a kid's education show called Sid the Science Kid that used Toon Generations (One) in one of Sid's 'dreams' in one episode.
Actually a skin rendering update would be fantastic. Small tweaks and changes that improve muscle realism and softbody simulation and so on are welcome to me.
You are never going to please all the people all the time.
The requirements for high quality single frame renders are different from those who animate.
Perhaps it might be an argument for using different base characters for animation & stills, rather than expect one base to do both?
hmm well to be fair one of the problems is the lack of "normal maps details. at last for game and for animation you can get a lot of "details" using normal maps, or "baking the high resolution" into the normal map of low resolution
here a classic exemple
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5252246/#Comment_5252246
normal maps in daz normally are poorly explored and a lot of possible details are lost because normally those details you see only in HD, but for peoples which don't use "hd", they could still possible achieve almost the same same level by using more the normal maps power and if possible bake hd details in non hd stuffs, this is why you have some "triple A" games with ultra realistic characters and they still "low poly".
about the hair, yeah indeed hairs in general in daz are terrible, most of the hairs are "too crazy high and now with the dforce hair/fur they become pretty much useless outside daz , about the outfits normally i try to choose "carefull" which vendors and products i'm buying to make sure buying the most "low poly outfit possible" for exemple a good artist for "low poly outfits" can be ih kang, normally his outfits don't pass the 40k or 50k vertices the full outfit, another good one in general can be xtrart3d artist also his/her outfits also normally general are not that high, or tentman also is a good option, while you have in general many artists which like to "go high" you also have some few which normally don't go "high or too high.
i normally look for then to not have to use the decimator because in my experiences it only did horrible/poor job specially with too high poly count outfits it only ended breaking the outfit rigging, then i decided to be more carefull when choosing outfits and artists to focus on buying stuffs.
going back, normally most of the "normal maps" i see in daz are used only for "micro details" at best, but in general the artists prefer to just model all of the details in the most high way possible instead of trying to use more "normal maps" and retopology and others tools which can make the same work with "less polygons".
The problem G8 has is that muscles connect across divisions. For example, pectoral muscles connect at various spots, one is from Chest Upper to Right Shoulder Bend. These two are not adjacent, which would indeed make a "wonky" area as a person stated.
I don't care what they do. Just as long as they don't force out low-end users.
Customers with lower end equipment can still buy most older items that ran on older computers. They're free to keep running old versions of DS, as long as they don't need to be provided with an older version of the program, or Poser or switch to Blender. The only thing they won't get is access to features that require new hardware. In parts of Pennsylvania, horses and buggies share the road with motor vehicles, but they don't go as fast or have air conditioning.
...Genesis 8.2?
As long as it doesn't break the converter scripts and remains backwards compatible with G3 I'm fine.
Stopped with G3 as I became tired of going broke purchasing all the utilities and resource content I use for custom character development every time a new generation was released and "writing off" the previous investment every two years when on a tight budget. I Expected the two year cycle to continue with G9...G10...G∞
...+1.
Or hog resources on less than state of the art systems.
I think if Daz wants to stay relevant they need to get their gears together and on par with character creator in the next couple of years. I've gotten really picky on the models as I don't see really much of anything cool I couldn't just morph what I got already into. Skin seems to be only thing that really makes each stand out to me and even then I can make my own.
Nice techinque, I hadn't considered using normals to such a radical degree, I usually find they make stuff look wonky when overapplied BUT i'm going to give it a try. TY!
yeah normal maps are still a lot strong at last for game, they can really do a lot, really lot of details
here another exemple fo wrinkles
normal maps are simple too poor explored in daz only really few artists really try to proper use normal maps in daz this is the big issue most of the times, if you know how to really take advanrage of then and the unr4al mask system you can create easy with low poly stunning characters outfits and propers.
I'm a high end user; I wish they would make sure to cater for me.
.png textures, or tiff for preference with very good details in them - doesn't matter how good the texture resolution if the textures don't have the details anyway.
A high and lower polly figure I can chose from, with still the option to use sub d; i don't mean high as in V4 era, but more geometry in the face and possibly elsewhere.
They can give great details, but they fall down - and abysmally so - when looking at the edges of a model; that area doesn't reflect the geometry you think you're seeing inside.
"Perhaps it might be an argument for using different base characters for animation & stills, rather than expect one base to do both?"
just my thinking captainklutz
well it's only when you are doing really super closeup images or really trying to pay too much attention to details, normally the "end user" not gonna notice those stuffs unless he is really looking at it or you model is really, really bad optimized, because you have some stuffs, whcih help hidden better the edges for exemple a game like the last of us 2, or the kojima game, only if you start to use a ultra clinic x-ray vision which you can notice those stuff on the characters, otherwise they really look almost perfect, depises having much less polygons than a average daz full clothed/hair character, the thing is which if you know how to proper tweak and work with the game engine you can get almost the same quality as if you were to using a super high poly model, specially nowdays which how the engines specially unreal are evolving, the characters are becoming "more and more" complex, ofcouse they are still getting more polygons on each generarion but still not on the level of daz not even close and you can get stunning characters, ofcourse tweaking a character low poly look good or almost good as the high poly is a "extra chore" which most peoples don't want to do, because it means retopology, extra work on maps, bakingh and others technics which are more "time consuming" but if you do that you can get amazed by the final results.
well it's only when you are doing really super closeup images or really trying to pay too much attention to details, normally the "end user" not gonna notice those stuffs unless he is really looking at it or you model is really, really bad optimized, because you have some stuffs, whcih help hidden better the edges for exemple a game like the last of us 2, or the kojima game, only if you start to use a ultra clinic x-ray vision which you can notice those stuff on the characters, otherwise they really look almost perfect, depises having much less polygons than a average daz full clothed/hair character, the thing is which if you know how to proper tweak and work with the game engine you can get almost the same quality as if you were to using a super high poly model, specially nowdays which how the engines specially unreal are evolving, the characters are becoming "more and more" complex, ofcouse they are still getting more polygons on each generarion but still not on the level of daz not even close and you can get stunning characters, ofcourse tweaking a character low poly look good or almost good as the high poly is a "extra chore" which most peoples don't want to do, because it means retopology, extra work on maps, bakingh and others technics which are more "time consuming" but if you do that you can get amazed by the final results.
and to be fair i'm still believing which based on how things are evolvign, specially AV and others real time works, real time rendering will become the "default" render while the old gonna still exist but peoples wanting less "time consuming" will start to run for the fast real time render, not only for film make or game but also still standing images, because of the "time saving" and level of quality they can get over time.
So true :(
For reals? they updating a g8?
would they be interested in fixing the typo that makes loading the g8 figures crash carrara?
i could send them my findings if interested.
a couple of internal id typos need fixing. and a few verts are missing from the g8f'actor' morph group around 3 of the left toe nails
even if its not the default figure, mebbe they can add a developer version of g8s for carrara users.
Horton hears a carrara who. we are here! we are here! we are here!
I'm curious when they update is going to hit.
Right after you buy a whole bunch of stuff that will be obsolete.
...yeah I'm pretty much a "compulsive dialer" and tend to purchase morph, skin, and shaping utilities/resources. Back in the Gen4 days I spent time devloping and designing teen, preteen, and child characters from Vicky4. When Genesis came along it felt like cheating as it even had a child morph and later there the Young Teens 5 were introduced. I tend to get what base figure models I feel I'll need as there is more and more custom sculpting and that helps add to what I call my "gene pool". G8 seems to have an even greater number of unique and custom sculpted characters and for that I have the G8 to G3 character converter scripts (both genders) as well as pose converter scripts (I always modify premade poses poses but find them good starting points) and clothing conversion scripts..
Whatever the update is, it can't make G8 stuff obsolete, or else they might as well shut down. Making sure that doesn't happen is probably what's taking the most time.
remembers when they updated Vicki 4.1 to Vicki 4.2