dForce wardrobe exploding...is really dforce or not?
Zilvergrafix
Posts: 1,385
Judge yourself, when I buy this wardrobes I have hight expectations of not find explosions like clothing being dforced intentionally, thanks god I can fix with many years of experiencie on my pocket but...what about a hobbyst who paid for this asset and no experience how make a fix, and...he/she needs to be savvy to make a fix with a paid product? is a requisit?, can I pay with Gills instead dollars too?
the product says DFORCE, and that is I want to expect of ALL the items not only the coat, if that case just sell the coat as a dforce only uh?
What is your excuse now?
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Did you follow the instructions provided? I don't own the product, but they're linked from the readme page.
http://docs.daz3d.com/lib/exe/fetch.php/public/read_me/index/79091/evoutfitinstructionsf.pdf
Yes, I did the timeline simulation and even Starting from zero pose, nothing, I made a video with the simulation running too, looks like is more a conforming cloth than a dforce cloth, I've used the upper coat alone and doing exactly as mentioned on the pdf but nothing, modifying the surface parameters one by one, turning off self collide, nothing.
From those pictures it seems that You did not start from the zero pose, but with arms down and probably a bit too close to the body so that they touched the dress near the hips, got "glued" to it, tried to move it with them and made it then go "kabowww"
Parts of the body making the dForce clothes touch each other in naughty ways are the many reason for dForce explosions...
I restart the simulation from Zero pose at 01:32, and the issues appeared again.
Make sure clothes or arms/legs/fingers are not touching the outfit if they are going to move apart later or sticking into the outfit.
Depending on the pose used, I have found older poses, especially pre-dForce ones, have body parts moving through other body parts and causing explosions. When I get an explosion, I back up the timeline to where it starts, move back a notch, and look where the body is. If one is just at the point of moving or touching another part of the body or the outfit, I use PowerPose to gently move it. I then clear simulated data (not on DS so not sure of exact term) and then restart the timeline simulation. I will keep an eye on the simulation from that point on. Sometimes I have to fix the pose 7 - 10 times. It all depends on how much my aggravation factor will tolerate.
If I am working with layered clothing, I will remove the upper layers, and run the simulations in turns, and freeze each simulation as it is successful.
But there have been times I have totally given up on that pose, and found a newer one or one by another artist.
And there have been times I have consigned the outfit to the trash heap of forgotten products. If it can be used without dForce I might use it, but it is permanently stained with bad memories.
In a case like this, when an item works as a conforming garment, and is not particularly flowing, you have to ask yourself how much benefit can be gained from using dForce at all. Personally, I might have tried letting it settle without even memorized bones, just for the sleeves before giving up on dForce.
Also, what are the chances that someone at Daz QC actually sat there waiting for it to simulate, even in A-pose, before approving it for the store?
First of all - Happy New Year!
I have proceeded according to the instructions (thanks for the link) and the clothes have not exploded during the simulation.
Simulation Time was 5 minutes 41 seconds and only adding the keyframes took ages.
There is some pokethrough with the right thumb, but it should be easy to fix, I hope.
probably I need a gnome body for use it accordingly
It works also on Ensley - https://www.daz3d.com/ensley-hd--expressions-hd-for-genesis-8-female
with https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-evergreens-outfit-for-genesis-8-females and https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-evergreens-female-outfit-textures
Is that a tail of the coat getting hooked on the folded over top of the boot?
I'm returning this product, I followed the instructions but still not working, I made a video about this and will be presented on Jan 8th (sorry for the autopromotion)
and #Topsy8IsNotGuiltyBecauseTheFaultIsNotYours
I asked a friend that has this outfit to try it out and he had no issues getting the dforce to work. Odd how it works for some, but not the OP.
and I'm lucky, the first dforce wardrobe malfunctioning since dforce was created in DS, considering the TON of dforce products on my Runtime and 100% functional...
Below is Ensley again from 2 different angles.
I have started from empty scene, and put Ensley, clothes and 2 meter plane with 8 subdivisions.
The tricky part for me, was to reuse the scene already simulated with some other character and deleted it afterwards.
I have just started from scratch and the adding keyframe worked, although very slow.
I am using Daz Studio 4.14 Beta for these simulations.
thanks for share your process.
In Simulation Settings:
- Increase "Pose Transition Time"
- Set "Collision Iterations (Per Subframe)" to 2 or 1.
This helps for me sometimes.
Btw, I hope dForce will be rewritten one day in Daz|Studio. Why? Because it explodes. Did you ever seen explosions in Marvelous Designer or Poser? Analyze this. ;)
Oh, going to try that, thanks for your tip.
Yes I have MD, the price still hurts and I have an old version (Steam License, yep, Steam!) but it works nicely
Somebody can say: "Dude, Daz|Studio is a free program. What do you want from free program?"
Well, I can answer with one word only... This word is "Blender".
Analyze this. :))
Marvelous Designer isn't a fair comparison, since cloth sims are basically what the entire program was designed for.
Cordig, ZBrush then? ;)
The main words in my message were "I hope dForce will be rewritten one day".
Because it really bad. First of all, because of explosions, and second, because of useless settings. I can say even more: absurd, senseless and silly.
Every time I'm looking at these mellifluous settings
Visible in Simulation
Friction
Collision Layer
Self Collide
Collision Offset
Dynamics Strength
Bend Stiffness
Buckling Stiffness
Buckling Ratio
Density
Contraction-Expansion Ratio
Damping
Stretch Damping
Shear Damping
Bend Damping
Velocity Smoothing
Velocity Smoothing Iterations
I asking myself: "What should I do with that bull****? How to do leather here? Are developers were drunk or high when they writing this plugin?"
I spent many hours to understand these settings with no success. Because most of them are senseless and makes almost zero effect on simulation, and cloth looks like a silk in 98% simulations.
So, now I understand only "Visible in Simulation", "Collision Layer", "Self Collide", "Collision Offset", "Dynamics Strength". Every other setting is a "higher mathematics" for me.
Even you are lucky enough and made "leather" set for one clothing, it will not work the same on another clothing becouse dForce is MESH SENSITIVE : it works differently with different surface sizes. (you can made clothing in MD with 5,10 or 15 mesh size and check my words). That's why you will not find in store product named "dForce settings for different cloth" (leather, silk, linen etc.) or something like this.
So, I really hope that DAZ3D will pay attention to this crapy plugin and remade it one day. And will take Marvelouse Designer as example for the settings.
p.s.: that's my opinion and I hope It didn't burn your World :))
Wrong, there is, and I have this
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-master-cloth-simulation-presets
but yes, does not fix nothing and I used to fix this gnome dforce dress and is useless too.
btw I did the video ranting about this, following all the instructions on the PDF, please take a look.
First, I don't use dForce -- I have better solutions at my disposal, so I have never bothered to even try it. If they would have started out with user interaction as I have available elsewhere, I might have given it a go. If they add it in the future, I might try it, but for now, I don't have the time to waste on another limited cloth sim.
@ Victor_B :
Just like any discipline, you have to learn 'how' to drive your machine. I'm sure anyone outside of PHP coding wouldn't have the faintest idea of any code postings from you, or you describing the work with nomenclature.
I don't even use dForce, and yet I know exactly what every one of the posted nomenclature in your posts are for, and what the should do. I learned to drive the machine years ago, and learned all the stick-shift controls, because as of yet, no one has created an auto-matic...
But, why I really logged in to respond to this thread, because I have been studying and using cloth sims for well over a decade :
Poser Explosion :
Poser Non-Explosion -- The completed drape (sans previous explosion) -- The hand coming down to rest on the cloth was the culprit in this situation. Apologies for the dark screen -- Pre-render that is at sunset :
Marvelous Designer Explosion :
Marvelous Designer Non-Explosion -- Single arm cloth drape before I added the second set of cloth flowers -- Initial re-sim with both sleeves, and KA-BOOOOMMM that you see above :
* Even with experiencing explosions in MD2 during my beta testing (pre-MD2 going live for Trials, and then purchasing) and Trial, I still purchased it, because it is a great program -- Even my decade old first generation MD2.
Maybe now, with the later versions, most might not encounter explosions on a regular basis -- I don't know, I only own the first version, but I can still explode it now and again, and definitely can still explode Poser's cloth sim, even up to PoserPro11.
Don't know about Poser12 -- Haven't tried it, nor ever plan to. They lost me when they locked PP11 to online schema (now, I just use my PP2014 instead), just like MD2 did, which is why I never purchased or will ever purchase again. I am already building my own solution...
So, animation doesn't help you? Sorry, man, I have no time to see the Simulation process. Even with music.
This clothing has many layers, but I think that only green coat should have dForce, everything other should works well as conforming clothing. So, set "Dynamic Strength" to zero for everything, except green coat. And set "Collision Iterations (Per Subframe)" for coat to 2 or 1. And cross your fingers, of course. ;)
..and me too!, I have PAID LICENSES of Marvelous Designer, 3DSMax, Modo, Keyshot, Zbrush, Maya, Photoshop and Autocad, and not mention Architectural software as Lumion for example.
this is not the case in "how many solutions do we have for replace and not use dforce", I use it because I paid for products that are functional with dforce! as simple as that!, of course there is other and better solutions but me, as a CONSUMER of Daz products, yes the program is free BUT the products are NOT, I demand quality asurance of a workable and functional product, a product not being free, a product that costs $24.95 and asides the cost I needed to study a PDF to make it works and even reading all the steps is not working, as a Daz consumer I have my right to post my unconformity with a product not being gifted to me, If someone gave me that product as free well I wouldn't have any right to demand functionality.
regardless of that I asked for a refund because even knowing how to make it work in MD or Maya, not my desire to fix and wasting time to do that for a paid product, period.
it seems that only the coat is dynamic because when I delete the coat and tried to simulate the other clothes was dforce telling me "there is non dforce to simulate" so is very probably only the coat or the hat are the only dforced ones, and I can't confirm that because I've uninstalled the product.
Sorry, Zilvergraphix, I believe there might be a little misunderstanding...
I was just qualifying with my first sentence that even though I use cloth simulation, that I did not use dForce, so I would be of no help here.
I agree with you, and I was not suggesting using anything else -- That's why I did not go on to list all the sims I use.
My post was in response to Victor_B ( and why I added the @ Victor_B ), and his statement : "Did you ever seen explosions in Marvelous Designer or Poser? Analyze this. ;)"
Hence, why I showed the explosions in both of those software.
My point was, and I am in agreeance with you that the product you paid for should work as advertised for you (regardless if it works for someone else who just says it works for me, so the product works), that all simulation software can have issues, not just dForce.
I'm glad you will be getting your money back with this one, but am saddened that it did not work out for you.
Keep using dForce, and keep having fun creating your awesome images (been a fan for years).
I hope to use dForce some day, but I am waiting for a very specific addition to help with my work-flows.
No problem, and you are free to post your opinion like anybody else.