Windows 8 vs. Windows 10 for Studio, Your Experiences?
zombiewhacker
Posts: 684
For the past six years, I've been quite content with Win 8.1, but any new computer I buy in the future will obviously come with Win 10 pre-installed.
Now a lot of DAZ users on these boards have shared their bad experiences with Win 10. Really their one big issue seems to be forced updates screwing up their NVidia drivers, wreaking havoc with their customized directories, etc. Is this something I need to be concerned about when I invest in a new desktop someday?
Or would I better off buying a new PC, then downgrading to 8.1?
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Comments
If you do get W10 get Pro, it's more stable and less invasive with the updates. I personally have been using it for going on four years with no issues.
agreed
If you get W10 Pro, you can disable automatic driver updates, which will keep it from screwing up that driver: https://www.minitool.com/news/disable-automatic-driver-updates-win-10-009.html
I had more issues with W8.1 than I have had with W10.
W8.1 Nvidia drivers seem to be an afterthought, which isn't all that surprising, because W7 is actually more used. Sources like Steam's hardware survey are probably the best metric for the gaming systems out there (and thus who Nvidia are writing most of their drivers for) and the most recent reports ~3.5% of users still on W7 vs. ~1.2% on W8.1 and W8.
As such, any number of compatibilty issues can arise as a result.
It's fine. Honestly. Keep your drivers up to date and it's all fine.
...even with W7 (before it's EOL) I would go to the manufacturer's site to download driver updates. The ones I got from MS in patch Tuesday feature updates tended to cause BSODs and other instabilities, which is why I changed the update centre settings from auto updating to manual, and then just stopped installing feature updates altogether as I found them unnecessary since I use a very pared down version of the OS (even turned off the Aero UI).
In that case... whew! Thanks for the feedback.
One parting question... are there performance differences between 8.1 and 10 regarding Studio... specifically with Iray renders?
...if you are doing GPU rendering I wouldn't think it would matter save maybe for accessing and loading the scene from the drive into the GPU.
The problem you will have with Windows 8 is is you have old hardware that is no longer supported by companies like Asus & Intel. The drivers for that hardware then would be unsupported, buggy, and possible security risks. Windows 8 itself is a security risk but not too bad. I still have Windows 7 running on an 18 year old laptop.
Hint: Asus and Intel dropped driver support for a 2012 Asus Slate 1st generation i Core with Intel HD Graphics 1st generation within 2 years after I purchased brand new at a cost of $1250. I've never been burnt so bad on any purchase in my entire life. That Asus Slate (B121 or something like that) was a complete waste of money that I'm alway short of nowadays.
....Windows 8/8.1 doesn't reach extended support EOL until January 10, 2023 so it is still getting security updates.
I'm stil on W7 as well and have no issue with being able to download and install the latest driver updates for my peripherals and GPU.
MS might support it until 2023 but will the manufacturers? A lot of that depends on how many people still use it. If people are dropping off then they will not bother to keep supporting it, why would they?
Using the Steam Hardware survey, W10 stands at 91.35% of Steam users, it gained 2.76% over the last survey of just one month ago. That is a really strong gain, it is rare to see such movement in a single month unless there is a genuine movement taking place. W7 continues to out rank W8 with a 3.51% share, though that is dropping by the day. W8.1 stands at 1.16% and its share dropped by 0.24% last month. These number continue to drop as well. Though funny enough, the older Windows still easily top any Linux or Mac version. All Linux OS's COMBINED only make up 0.78% of the user base. The highest ranking Mac sits at 0.76%. IMO the real time to worry is if W8 drops to around Linux or Mac use levels, basically when it goes under 1%. At the rate it is going, that will not take very long. We'll hit that mark before 2023 easy. When it hits that point I think you will see more companies drop support for it. I believe we will probably see W8 dropped before W7, as 8 was the black sheep of the Windows family from day one. Even now, W7 has 3 times as many users as 8 on Steam in spite of being the older OS.
Obviously Steam does not speak for the entire market, but its user base is the largest out there and the Steam survey is pretty consistent and influential. And like it or not the gaming sector plays a huge role in this field as nearly all of us use a GPU designed mostly for gaming. The clock is ticking on those old operating systems.
Out of the three, W7, W8 and W10, W8 is the worst in regards to support and useability. There are even Nvidia cards that have updated drivers for W7 but not for W8.
In general the "engine" in W10 works as well as in W7, but the interface still has some quirks, which even after extensive cleaning up of the interface, makes it slower for work than W7.
Whether there are/will be problems with the OS, depends on the choice of hardware (platform and individual components) and the drivers for it/them.
I don't know why custom databases would be affected. Doing a proper transfer of your personal login account files & folders would bring over any databases kept within your account files & folders. MS has been keeping configuration information in the hidden files in your account since Win7. Admittedly though, some old applications still clung to keeping it buried in the system files. Just make sure that you have a proper backup of your system and personal files in case you have to reload files that get squashed or need to be reloaded.
Yes, Win10-Pro has more control over some aspects of your system but I don't see why it would be more stable than Win10-Home.
Ignore the paniced admonitions to avoid Win10 updates. Updates happen every month and even with Win10-Pro's capabilities can't be ignored forever without yanking a few wires or gears in the machine. Just don't get ambitious and install Win10 updates before they are actually presented to your machine for automatic update. If you manually go hunting for updates by typing "update" in the search field of the task bar you might sometimes find "Additional Updates" that are early releases for the masochistic to test on sacrificial machines. When an update has been tested and deemed ready for your machine (yes, they scan it and know it's update status) it will be downloaded and either installed automatically in an off period, or if you've set the option, will notifiy you that an update is downloaded and ready to be installed when you attempt to shutdown. Keep your machine updated unless you work in a vacuum.
Regarding driver updates; a new machine will come with drivers for all the installed devices. Whether they are "good enough" is up to you to determine. If you install different drivers they will be fine UNTIL microsoft issues one of the (usually) twice yearly major feature changes. In which case they MIGHT be replaced but I've never had a problem with my graphics card drivers, or any driver for that matter. A lot of update complaints come from people who don't keep their machine updated regularly, or who shoehorn-in ancient or experimental or ill-fitting drivers.
The monthly updates are usually benign and quick and often don't even need to be rebooted afterwards. However, the twice yearly Feature Updates are the ones that people usually bitch about because they can take a couple of hours. Usually when you simply have to have the computer immediately for some life or job threatening issue. I'm sure it's one of Murphy's Laws.
If you're going to scavenge computer organs from your old computer to transplant into your new computer, you might have problems with finding drivers. Especially with obsolete devices. If you're worried, research the Internet to see if drivers for your ancient device are available for Win10, before you buy. And no, that Studebaker engine isn't going to work properly in your Jaguar.
Moving up from Win8 to Win10 isn't as bad a culture shock as moving from WinXP to Win8 but Win10 is continually evolving. They're in the process of moving system controls from traditional locations to the "Settings" dialogs. Every twice annual Feature Update moves more of them. Point being, you may be lost for a while on where the hell they moved that control for that thing that you do, that's been in that place, since the dark ages. Usually just typing a keyword into the search field in the taskbar will give you a clue. Eventually you relearn where your banana is and which buttons to press to get it. But the process is ongoing, eventually an old Win8 user will end up buying a future version of Win10 and not even know how to get into the forest.
Will your transition be perfect and without issues? No. But Win10 is perfectly serviceable. Do not be afraid of the monster in the closet. Just search YouTube for hints on which features to turn off to avoid unwanted surveilance and excessive background operations, but take even them with a grain of salt. Most modern machines of any quality will run rings around your old Win8 system just by hardware improvements alone even if dragging a heavy sledge behind it.
I have only recently switched to Win10 from Win8.1. So far so good however Win10 seems to be Win8.1 with extra steps. It has this overlay over most settings that makes it look like a phone app. Win8.1 had it too but you could easily avoid it. In Win10 you can't anymore.
Only once have I owned a computer that came with a pre-installed version of Win7. It pretty much made the thing unusable. I did a fresh install of Win7 manually and everything worked fine. It was like night and day. I recommend getting your own Win10 kit (I think you can even download it from the microsoft website directly) and do the install yourself.
It's pretty easy to make Windows 10 look and act mostly like Windows 7.
How to Make Windows 10 Look and Act More Like Windows 7 (howtogeek.com)
Irrelevant to my point.
You can't get rid of the new app-like interface. The old interface is still there but you have to get through the new one first.
Given the terrible time I had getting Win8.1 to look and axct more like Win7, I am dubious.
I can't remember what the specific complaints were, whether the Win10 update was affecting DAZ users who kept their content stored on their D: drive instead of their C: drive, or vice versa.
Anyway, I was more concerned with the nVidia driver getting screwed up than anything else. If I'm understanding the comments here correctly, so long as I update directly from nVidia's website, the Win10 update will leave my graphic driver alone and move on.
I haven't had many stability issues with my laptop, which came with Windows 10. Usually when I hear that somebody has had a software update destroy their whole life, it seems like my computer is unaffected. It might be because I seem to get the updates later than some people. I still haven't gotten that big May 2020 update. The computer continues to say I'll get the update once it's ready for my device. But I get periodic updates.
The Geforce Experience app seems pretty good at notifying me of graphics driver updates and I presume they're coming from Nvidia rather than Microsoft, given that the Nvidia app is downloading them. The most recent annoyance is the window with all the settings has been updated to have a bar across the top with my name and profile picture, and the extra space it takes up now requires me to scroll down to get to the settings at the bottom of the window, where previously they all fit on the screen at once. And the file manager has this supposedly helpful "Quick Access" menu that is nice if it has the folder soyu want, but sucks when it doesn't, and doesn't stay the same. And the folders you know and love are below it so you have to scroll to them.
Depends on what is meant with "Looking like W7"... If talking about appearance or colors, ok. who cares... If talking about functionality - Not there yet, one example being the placement of second File Explorer window.
To echo what's been said, if you're getting all new hardware, stick with Win10 for the best support.. I vageuly remember trying to run Win7 and the support for M.2 drives as a pain.. Win10 was seemless... and for DS, you'll be fine.
Yes, I'm talking about functionality.
Used to use Windows 8.0 and now use windows 10; never liked the changes that 8.1 brought mainly because i liked the bit start menu, but that's another rant.
I wouldn't use 8 or 8.1 now, I'd get used to 10. It works well, and has shed loads of spy stuff, which can be managed.
I don't remember noticing a difference when I moved over for Studio; I have a professional version of windows 7, which does have some difference, but I've no idea if it is limited in other ways.
So what happens if you buy a Win10 computer and never hook it up to the internet?
Will it die, pepper you with reminders, or just keep working?
...for myself just stepping up from an HDD to a SATA III SSD makes a world of difference. Besides my MB only has PCIe 2.0 slots, OK for PCIe 3,0 GPUs (just that loading the scene into VRAM takes a little longer, biggie), but not sure about M.2 PCIe drives.
I don't know if activation is still possible by phone and/or email with Windows 10, if it is, then no need to connect ever.
May nag about it like a teenager though