Questions about 8.1 items over 8.0 and there compatibility.
technobrownie
Posts: 24
I could understand things like 3 to 8 needing a thing to convert because of there differences with vertex placement, bones, etc. However because this is "8.1" and not "9" there are some things that I would like cleared up.
The gist:
1) Will clothing/props for 8.1 work with 8.0?
2) Why make clothing/props for 8.1 over 8.0?
3) Will 8.0 items be updated for 8.1?
4) What types of 8.0 items will not work on 8.1?
5) When searching Smart Content in DAZ, is there a way to filter out/exclude 8.1 and search only 8.0?
The long:
As far as I can tell (With my smol brain), 8.1 just upgrades face expressions and textures (I glanced at the wireframe and it seems basically the same to me). So I can understand 8.1 expressions and character textures not working with 8.0. However what about clothing, props, and morphs? I already see clothing for 8.1 but is there any reason that they can't still work with 8.0? is there any benefit to doing 8.1 clothing over 8.0?
If there are 8.0 things that don't work with 8.1, can we expect an update to those items, Or will they be considered a different model?
What are the things that don't look right or can't be transferred to 8.1? Expressions are probably going to look funky but are geographed, LIE, script things going to be a problem?
I already foresee searching for 8 and getting 8.1 in there. Is there going to be a way to filter out 8.1 and 8.0 items in DAZ?
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Comments
1) yes, at least if they don't use arcane tricks in loading (for example scripts)
3) most won't need updating, some of those that do will be updated but there's no guarantee all will
4) anything that depends on surface names may have issues - some DS will be able to redirect but others may need manual adjustment on torso and the back of the ehad where the surface names have changed. Expressions have chnaged notably, and some will not work (custom morphs, however, should be fine)
...can 8.1 items be used with G3?
Well, if you're making clothing that follows the face expressions (like a mask or something on the face), you'd want to make different ones for both. If you like the new better, that's a reason. Most of the clothing/prop vendors I've spoken to plan to support both for a while.
Most notably expressions designed for 8 that use the Daz base expression controls won't work. Scripts that look specifically for Genesis 8 or the Torso material zone will also not work. Expression poses that moved the bones and did not use the Expression dials will work though in my tests. Obviously I haven't checked them all, but basically that will be the main determining factor if an expression pose will work or not. Geoshells also currently have an issue (though LIE works), but that is being looked at and work with a little fiddling.
If you have G8 in your scene and selected, in the Smart Content tab there should be a checkbox that says "Filter By Content". This will only show G8 and not G8.1 content while a G8 is selected. While a G8.1 is selected, it will show both.
Not really at this point. Unless, like I mentioned above, it's a face thing, and even then if it's autofollowing expressions it can be built on 8 and work on 8.1.
This will depend on the item and the vendor. For example, some of Zev0's scripts don't work, and he's already stated he's updating at least some of his stuff. I use geoshells a lot in my stuff that go over the area specifically that is an issue, so I've already started making updates that I plan to provide.
So yes, expressions won't work for the most part. The new ones are really delightful though. The artist that made them did a great job. Geografts will still work just fine as long as it doesn't use a script for mats/application. LIE will continue to work as it should so long as the UV it was designed for is the one it is applied to. This means that if something uses the new UV for G8.1 and you apply an LIE that was designed for the old UV, it might not look correct. Specifically if it's on the torso because this will create an odd duplicate on the neck area because of how the new UV is mapped. Scripts that look for a specific figure or the Torso material zone won't work.
I *think* I covered everything that Richard didn't and maybe got into a little more detail. Hope that helps.
As much as G8 ones can. I suspect that SickleYield and Riversoft will update their scripts to work on 8.1 items as well. But that's up to them.
I have hundreds of expressions that I love and combine, including ones I created myself. But most of these will not work on 8.1? I think I’ll definitely stick to 8.0 except experimenting with anything free. My shopping days may come to an end here but I already have enough to last a lifetime!
With expressions I found by accident that the slider expressions for Genesis 3, that I transferred with X-Transfer seemed to work really well with G8.1F.. Which is interesting as most of the Genesis 8 slider expressions did not..
Lots of scripts like Dial Control and Look At Me require updates before they will work with 8.1.
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-phenom-lingerie-for-genesis-8-females
This is the problem from out of the gates. It states it's for Genesis 8.1 when it's really for Genesis 8, it lists all the G8 shapes for compatibility in the properties but in the Compatibility section, it only lists Genesis 8.1.
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-fringe-benefits-hair-for-genesis-3-and-81-female
This lists Genesis 8 and Genesis 8.1 separately.
Considering how few items are setup properly in the first place, this is going to be very confusing for many not really knowing if something is actually compatible with their vast G8 library or not.
Have we seen the last of new characters for G8F? Will all the new ones be 8.1 and therefore not backwards compatible (skins).
I suspect not.
That's just Daz being Daz, and some people will not purchase items they might otherwise.
I can't speak for everyone, but I suspect there will be an effort to note in their product descriptions if their stuff works on both.
Does anyone know if products like Face Mojo or Facial MoCap designed specifically for Genesis 8.0 will still work with 8.1 with it's 'Enhanced Facial Control Rig'?
And from today: Z Pain and Hurt Mix and Match Expressions for G8.1F lists G6F in the "compatible figures" section, while in the "What's included & features" part - as to be expected - it talks about G8.1F.
Shopping gets trickier and trickier, says Alice...
I'd be careful with todays' Eyecatching Related items as well, since part of the eyes got an update as well. Mainly tears and eyelashes, which got seperated, but I'm also worried about other parts of the eyes and their material zones.
Thats my biggest question right now too as I use FaceMotion so much for animation. Later today, if no one has posted about it, I'm going to get the base character and see if it does. If we don't hear from anyone else, I'll post my findings here.
Thansk very much benniewoodell !! I use it every day and have not yet had the chance to test it out on 8.1 Female as yet.
As far as I know old products for the eyes still work, the surface groups are the same it's just that there is a new UV set. It would make it impossible to mix-and-match 8/8.1 products that layered on the same surface though.
Looking at Hurt and Injured and Pain and Hurt, I can't help but feel like they've already begun the process of taking all the 8.0 products and making them again as an 8.1 product. As a person who held on to my DVD player long after everybody else had upgraded to Blu-ray, I refuse to buy everything again just because they added a 0.1
That's not true. I already got Victoria 8.1 and already have this expression set on my wishlist. But they had better not make an 8.2 version.
This may not be the right place to ask this question.
What software to create personalized textures (for GF 8.1), for custom characters ?
Pretty much any program that you like. Photoshop, Gimp, Blacksmith, Substance, Mari, ZBrush... pick your poison :D
ChangelingChick
thank you very much.
I can continue to use "Substance" ...
Thank you for your reply.
Best regards. :D
Hey! So I just did a test, and I don't know about Face Mojo since I'm using FaceMotion, but they have to be similar to an extent from what I've seen on the video of Face Mojo since you need the same app on the iPhone, and the facial mocap works on 8.1. So hopefully you get the same result with Face Mojo as I did with FaceMotion.
Probably G8F needs a G8.1F UV. It’s a matter of waiting for a PA to do it.
There's no extra mat zone on G8 to support the G8.1 UV.
I don't see why this would be the case. Not every character PA's make need to take advantage of the new skin system, and as opposed to the jump from 3 to 8, most 8 characters are compatible with 8.1 out of the box.
I've used a hair on G8
Okay well I just bought a clothing object for " for genesis 8 and Michael 8.1", that is how it is stated and it does not have a spot in my library for genesis 8, only in library for 8.1, and the clothing does not fit my genesis 8 male at all.
I sent a support ticket and asked for a refund. Meanwhile Daz support wants me to try again on the genesi 8 which I did and it still does not conform. Like I said there is no option for it to go into my library for Genesis 8 male.
Not sure what will happen during this support.
Did you try it with G8.1 and it was fitting? I recently ran across some colthing items that did not fit at all, no matter what, and regardless of the figure I tried with. Especially male clothing seems to be a nightmare. Some PA's are doing an excellent job, some not even a decent one.
What happens when you try to fit it to Genesis 8 Male?