Need help making the DS4.6 content library look like Poser for easier use
shadowhawk1
Posts: 2,200
Hey everyone,
This is an offshoot of this thread so I don't end up highjacking it. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/47328/P180
Basically, what I want to do is make the DS4.6 content library look more like the content library I use in Poser so I can understand it better and maybe change over to using DS4.6 ... if I can learn the materials and other idiosyncrasies, but the content library is my first major hurdle and then we can work from there. I do not want this to turn into a turf war over Poser verses DAZ Studios, that has been done here and at other sites way too much and I want to give this an honest shot. We all know that nothing is going to change until both companies work together to solve this, so let’s all play nice and hopefully this will hope other Poser uses as well as myself.
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When you open the Content Library pane inside DAZ Studio, you will see the first two entries are DAZ Studio Formats and Poser Formats.
Poser Formats (inside My DAZ 3D Library or My Library, whatever you use) contains all the usual suspects, Figures, Hair, Hands Pose etc. etc., just the same as inside Poser itself. In general, only the older DAZ items are in Poser Format, particularly the Figures, and you will find V4 (Generation 4) and previous generations (V3, V2) in there as well.
DAZ Studio Formats contain everything in DS format, as you would expect, Genesis, G2F and G2M and any Poses, Materials etc for them. DAZ Studio does not have a runtime folder structure for it's own native content, any DS files can really go anywhere inside the My DAZ 3D Library folder, and DS will pick them up, but there is a structure, in that Genesis figures and their morphs, are inside a folder called People (for example)
The best way to organise your content inside DS, is to use Categories, which does not move anything on the HDD, but creates entries in a database. You can then have Poser Format and DS Format in the same db, and you can keep figures, poses, materials etc. all in the same structure for ease of use.
Most if not all of my issues come from DS's convoluted (At least to me it is) folder structure that gives me the most fits. As an example when I buy an item or items from a store (will try to keep it general) I will put everything into a folder that I create for that days purchase, then I unzip everything into a runtime and then delete the unnecessary items such as readme’s, store EULA’s and templates that I don’t want taking up space. Then I open the library folder and remover all the unnecessary folders and if needed, I rename the folder to say what it is. Once I have done all that I open up my poser runtime folder and then install the Geometries and texture folders in bulk before opening my library folder and starting with the first folder I transfer over everything into its appropriate folder. For example I have a pair of boots for V4 I would open up the Characters/V4/Shoes/Boots folder and drop it in with the other boots. The same would go for boots or shoes for M4 Character/M4/Shoes/Boots.
Maybe I am seriously anal retentive or I am dealing with a case of serious Obsessive compulsive Disorder that I haven’t been diagnosed with yet. This makes things very easy for me to find something I am looking for as you can imagine, I understand if that seems like a lot of extra work for some of you but to me it makes finding something I need for a scene very easy and quick.
In DS it is anything but easy to find things, and that is the biggest part of my trouble. I can spend an hour looking for items for an image that takes me 10 to 15 minutes tops in Poser. I have seen some great things done with DS and I really want to see what everyone is saying about the Genesis and Genesis 2 characters that I have had little luck getting to work in Poser and would like to use them but because of issues with DSON I have given up trying to use them in Poser.
There are two things that should help quite a bit when looking for content.
First, there is the search option at the top of the Content Library pane, which can be set to search either by File name or Database entry, I use it a lot, and it works extremely well. Once you have found the item you want, you can either load it from the search results box, or right click on it, and select 'Show in Mapped Folder' which will take you straight to the library entry for it.
The other thing is Smart Content, and it works well too for most things. If you have Genesis selected in the Scene pane, then Smart Content will ONLY display items which can be used on Genesis, and the same applies to other figures like V4 for example.
I also use the DIM (DAZ Install Manager) to install my DAZ 3D content, and anything that has been installed using DIM is simple to find. Go to the installed tab, select the item, right click, and use the 'Show Installed Files' which supplies a clickable link to each of the itmes that were installed from the ZIP.
Finding content inside DS for most things is fairly easy, for example, Genesis. Go to DAZ Studio Formats > My DAZ 3D Library > People > Genesis, and everything for Genesis should be there under the various sub-folders (Characters, Clothing, Hair, Materials etc. etc.). The same applies to G2F and G2M.
It may take time to get used to it, but it is not as difficult as it may seem to begin with. You should also look into Categories, with means that you don't need to know exactly where anything is installed, just use your own database entry for it.
Here is a tut by AdamR on how to set up Categories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_nnPf8nCcc4
This is why I set my runtimes up the way I do, so I don't have to go searching for what I want. Sometimes I know what I am looking for but don't have a name for the outfit. One of my issues was DS running its folders horizontal instead of vertical, which someone was nice enough to show me how to set them to a vertical alignment, I am attaching an image of my poser setup if you use Poser you will see that even that is changed from its base install. I realize that I cannot make DS look and operate exactly like Poser but as I said in the other thread, if I can get it to 75% or better in a general layout and function I think I can work on the rest.
There are some that suggest making a separate runtime so as to not break the metadata and the DIM, but I don’t care about either of those. I don’t use either of them in Poser so I don’t want to fight with them now. I just want one simple runtime setup that I can use that doesn’t require learning a whole new workflow, or something that is going to make me hate doing something that I love and use as a therapeutic escape from my boring life after work.
I appreciate the link I will look at it after I get back to my little cubby hole after work.
Hey Shadowhawk. I see JimmyC has already given you a bunch of good stuff to get you going. I did screen shots of how my runtime is set up in DS, so I'm posting them here too, for you and others who come across this thread in future.
I know the goal was to have one runtime. This is what my Content looks like in DS. You can see I actually have two runtimes associated at the moment, but you don't have to do it that way. (Well really, I have four runtimes that I add when needed, and remove when I'm done with them. I keep my freebies separate so I don't use them in promos, and some testing runtimes. The bulk of everything I purchase goes into one big folder.)
You've already found this, but I'm putting it up anyway, The first thing you will most likely want to do is check the option that says View as Tree. This is a view of my DAZ Studio formats expanded. Most of them are the default categories because it is easier when installing, but I've added a few. QA here has gotten really excellent at consistency of product placement, so I haven't had to move stuff around nearly as much as I used to. Example: People/Genesis 2 Female/Clothing is where I would have put those things too. Then in the clothing folder, I add folders for the vendor because that is how I remember what I have. Others will categorize the clothing but type like everyday, sci-fi, or historical. Do what works for you.
Here is a screen grab of what my folders look like in Windows explorer. I know you only wanted to back up one thing. The folder I have labeled DAZ content, which has the Poser content folder in it, is where I keep supporting items that I don't need to access inside the program. Basically, it is stuff I use a lot, like the backgrounds, but none of it has user facing presets. Also, technically my "Poser content" folder should really be named "DAZ Studio content," because that is where the Studio only files are, but it has been that way for years and I'm leaving it. It doesn't matter what you call it as long as you associate it in the Content Directory Manager.
From the picture above, the folder I have labeled Poser Content is the one I need to add in DAZ Studio as both a DS format and a Poser format. You have to add the same folder to both so that they all work off the same textures folder and geometries as needed. You do that here in the Content Directory Manager.
Thanks DG,
I do realize that I will have both a Poser and a DS library and I can live with that but I want to keep my current runtime that is optimized for Gen4 and all of my other stuff and use the DS library set up in the same fashion for Genesis and Genesis 2. I really appreciate the assistance you both are giving and I really hope that this will help others that might want to set up DS to work more like Poser for themselves.
Sure thing!
The long and the short of it is, you can think of the folders on the same level as the "runtime" as the DS equivalent of the Poser "Libraries." If you don't care about the metadata and smart content, you can move everything around as you please. Note: one possible exception is the Shaders. Some of them have .sdl files that are needed to stay where they are to function properly. If there are other major exceptions to what you can't move, I'm sure someone will chime in and correct me.
DAZ Studio is already easier to use than Poser, having work in and used both programs regularly for a number of years, DAZ Studio is flexible and intuitive whereas poser's rigid and specific workflow is restrictive. Now I understand you like Poser more and that it is your program of choice up to this point. Wonderful. You have that right, you also have the right to grow and evolve as an artist. But you are doing yourself a dis-service not allowing the natural freedom in DAZ Studio open system to the locked categories of POSER.
So I'm reading your Jefferson quotes in the signature line:
The "wrongs" in this scenario is the falsehood that Poser is better than DAZ Studio.
The "willing to work" is the constant development and growth of an artist to learn new and better techniques. It's also the software that keeps evolving versus the one that stagnates.
The "too much government" (too much control) are the restrictive categories in Poser.
Now I also don't use smart content in DAZ Studio, I don't like it. Again love the freedom of choice. I like managing my own directory struture and placing items in my own system where i can find stuff quickly and easily. I have multiple runtimes on multiple drives and separate daz libraries depending how I need them, since I also do content creation. All I'm trying to say is, Poser is Britian, cut the ties and claim your independence.
The "wrongs" in this scenario is the falsehood that Poser is better than DAZ Studio.
The "willing to work" is the constant development and growth of an artist to learn new and better techniques. It's also the software that keeps evolving versus the one that stagnates.
The "too much government" (too much control) are the restrictive categories in Poser.
Now I also don't use smart content in DAZ Studio, I don't like it. Again love the freedom of choice. I like managing my own directory struture and placing items in my own system where i can find stuff quickly and easily. I have multiple runtimes on multiple drives and separate daz libraries depending how I need them, since I also do content creation. All I'm trying to say is, Poser is Britian, cut the ties and claim your independence.
FirstBastion,
Thanks for popping in to offer your advice in this, but I have to disagree with you on a couple of points. I find Poser to be far more intuitive and easier to use than DS. To prove my point I am including a screenshot of my DS runtime, even in its factory settings the Poser library is far easier to understand.
How is not using DIM or metadata limiting DS? All I want is the content library to make sense!
You have made several statements telling me that using Poser is wrong and that DAZ Studios is right and how much better it is over Poser but haven't made any effort to help me understand DAZ Studio so I can make my own decision.
Good screen shot. I see what you mean. I see right away a few things you can move. The folders for IG Lights and Dreamlight were probably set up from before the time QA started getting super serious about consistency. Grab those and merge them in with your Light Presets or your Lights folder. You probably already have other folders already called IG Lights and Dreamlight in one of those two places already, if you have bought something recently. (Personal note: I put my IG Lights in Lights, but QA puts them in Light Presets, so I have to move them every time. Up to you if want to "go with the flow" or put it where it makes more sense to you.)
What is in the Light folder? Anything?
Architecture and Environment, do you like them there? I put my Architecture under Props, but maybe you want to combine it all with Scenes and Scene Builder. What is in Scene Builder?
Is textures a folder you made to keep MATs?
I like your desktop wallpaper.
Basically, the only folder you really should not touch in a DS content directory is the Data folder. This will contain the equivalent of poser geometries and morphs, so if you want things to work properly don't touch it, just merge it into your existing Data folder.
Well you probably shouldn't modify the textures folder either. It will typically be supplied in a Runtime structure, just merge that to your existing Runtime directory.
Everything else can be reordered to suit your needs better, as long as you don't put them under the runtime folder: if you do they won't appear anymore in the DS content directory, and as they're not in poser format the files won't show up in the poser content directory either.
As I said, I use Poser daily, there's no right or wrong here. All I was getting at, don't limit yourself to an old paradigm, best of luck with the whatever choice you make! Whatever works best for you. I've always thought energy is best spent, creating. Peace!
FWIW, there's nothing stopping you rearranging the content in the D|S folders in exactly the same way as you do in your Poser Runtime; the only difference is that the Libraries standard set of top-level folders doesn't exist in D|S. That's exactly what I've done since way back when I was still using early versions of Poser, and the same system still works perfectly in the current D|S with all my Genesis and Genesis2 content.
The only thing to watch for is, as mentioned upthread, DAZ has really only recently started enforcing any sort of coherent system for placing types of content in folders; e.g. extra textures were sometimes put into completely separate "Materials" folders, and props that go with clothes sets were in separate "Props" folders. Environments were also a mess, with folders for Architecture/Environments, Environments/Architecture, Props/Architecture and so on. Group and combine folders just as you've been doing in the Runtime, and it'll all still work.
The major disadvantage of doing things this way is that you won't be able to use Smart Content or Categories, they depend on all content files being in the places the installer puts them, because the installer builds a database of links to where everything is. When you move the files and break the links, the database can't find anything. If you don't use this feature, though, don't worry about it.
Note that older Poser-format Platinum Club content is gradually being updated to current D|S standards, there's a thread here somewhere about it. As each item is fixed, re-installing will give you proper D|S-format files instead of separate Poser objects and D|S textures.
I've always figured that to mess with the actual folders on your hard disk would be a BAD thing. What I would suggest in this case would be to let DIM install the content where it should go and then use Categories in DS to organize things the way you want. All those little circles in your screen cap were the Poser categories for things, just create those categories in the category view and expand from there. With this system, you get to set up the view you can use AND you can let DIM update your products without major work on your part.
Gus
Since the exchange has led to some useful information we aren't pulling the "DS is better" comment and reply, but please keep this thread away from app wars. The poster wants help in getting DS to present its content in a Poser-like way, please keep to that topic rather than debating which method is "better"
Thanks for the great tips DG (Hope it is alright to call you that) I will have to merge a bunch of folders it looks like. I am glad you understand what I am trying to do and I appreciate your help. Like I have said I realize that I will have a native Studio runtime and then my linked Poser runtime, and that is acceptable I understand that expecting one runtime for this at this point is just crazy. I will have to set set up a props folder and move a bunch of things. I can see that I won't be able to use the exact folder structure I have in Poser but I can make something close that might just help me find my items quicker and easier. The textures folder you are refering to is from a freebie that I downloaded that was Studio only and I will either merge it with something else or I will use it for the base for merging files into it.
Thanks I found that on one of those free wallpaper pages when I was looking for something completely different. I can try to find it again if you want the link.
Thanks Leana that is good to know as well. So they are like the geomitries folder and texture folders in Poser ... best to leave those alone and just modify the contents of the libraries folder.
As I said, I use Poser daily, there's no right or wrong here. All I was getting at, don't limit yourself to an old paradigm, best of luck with the whatever choice you make! Whatever works best for you. I've always thought energy is best spent, creating. Peace!
I apologize for snapping at you with my last comment FirstBastion, It came out harsher than I meant for it to be, I just want to give DS a real chance and fighting the content folders in its current state is an absolute fail right now. I think if I can get DS to work for me like this and actually start using it more and more I can start to slowly add some of the features I am limiting right now. I would like to hear any ideas you might have on this issue.
Actually, you can have DS files under Runtime just fine but it requires a bit of effort and maybe some script-writing abilities. DS will show duf/ds/dsa files in Runtime as long as there's a pz2/cr2/mc6 file with the same name. I keep all the content under Runtime (even if I'm not a Poser user) because I hate jumping from DS files to Poser files and back and I don't use smart content or DIM for installing. Whenever I install something, I unpack it to a temporary directory, then move it manually. If it's genesis/ds content, I run a script that creates empty pz2/cr2 for each duf/dsa/ds that lacks it. If it's an older genesis content that uses .dsf files outside of "data", I rename it to .duf. It works fine even if I can't really recommend this method unless you know what you are doing.
Right now I am more interested in getting a folder design that is closer to Poser so that I can try and get used to some of the other differnces that exist between Poser and Studio so that later I could reinstall the content library and then learn what I feel will be the most dificult part ... the content library structure. Please keep the advice and ideas coming.
Thanks for the comment Gus, the biggest thing is that I do not have DIM installed nor do I plan on using it. Maybe later after I have learned the content library I will try it but I like the ability to downlaod my purchased files and install then myself.
Thanks Richard. I have to accept part of the blame for the outburst, instead of looking at the positive of the post I bristled at the perceived slight and responded in kind. I will try to keep from repeating that and I appreciate that you have left the thread intact.
Actually, you can have DS files under Runtime just fine but it requires a bit of effort and maybe some script-writing abilities. DS will show duf/ds/dsa files in Runtime as long as there's a pz2/cr2/mc6 file with the same name. I keep all the content under Runtime (even if I'm not a Poser user) because I hate jumping from DS files to Poser files and back and I don't use smart content or DIM for installing. Whenever I install something, I unpack it to a temporary directory, then move it manually. If it's genesis/ds content, I run a script that creates empty pz2/cr2 for each duf/dsa/ds that lacks it. If it's an older genesis content that uses .dsf files outside of "data", I rename it to .duf. It works fine even if I can't really recommend this method unless you know what you are doing.
That is a little above my level but it is good information to know. Maybe someone that is following this might be able to utilize the info you have given here. Thanks for the insight and please continue to make suggestion that might be helpfull.
The "wrongs" in this scenario is the falsehood that Poser is better than DAZ Studio.
The "willing to work" is the constant development and growth of an artist to learn new and better techniques. It's also the software that keeps evolving versus the one that stagnates.
The "too much government" (too much control) are the restrictive categories in Poser.
Now I also don't use smart content in DAZ Studio, I don't like it. Again love the freedom of choice. I like managing my own directory struture and placing items in my own system where i can find stuff quickly and easily. I have multiple runtimes on multiple drives and separate daz libraries depending how I need them, since I also do content creation. All I'm trying to say is, Poser is Britian, cut the ties and claim your independence.
I'm British. :) And I now live in Canada, the first country that actually made me bow to the Crown. So much for independence. LOL.
I don't really know much about Poser's workflow as a content creator, so I won't dispute what you're saying. I've heard others, Poser users, say it. So it's likely true. LIke most customers here (I assume), I don't create content, however, so that's not an issue for me. And Poser's file structure is actually quite a lot more flexible these days. You can put any file anywhere, except textures and geometries and python scripts -- and you can, if you like, put those in the same folder with the PP2 or CR2 they refer to. Textures can actually go anywhere on your machine -- if you make your own material files. It wasn't always this way, but recent iterations are more flexible.
That said, the choice to use a particular software is often a matter of preference, and we get locked into old habits. It took me forever to work out how to use Gimp (despite its obvious similarities to Photoshop), and there are still things I'd change to suit my decade long habits. When you're accustomed to doing things FAST -- on autopilot -- your workflow can come to a stop if a single keystroke sequence is changed and you're suddenly forced to think about what you're doing or search for the correct input.
In any case, using both softwares is, IMO, the best of both worlds. So it's to our advantage to use both if we want to maximize our flexibility. But not everyone can get good results with both (I can't) -- and it does take some effort to figure out why.
Now, on to runtime organization...
I choose to have dozen of runtimes, organized by theme, because I have 400 gigs of content that I want to be able to find easily -- in Windows Explorer.
However, there's no reason you can't have one single directory in which all your Poser, Daz, and Poser CF's live. For Poser files (if you have Poser 9+), if you leave textures and geometries where they are and copy python scripts to the main runtime in Program Files, you can move all the other folders or rename them however you like (Put all props in Props, even CR2s; all hair in Hair, even CR2s, all people in FIgures, even PP2s, etc, etc -- I believe you can even just put all files associated with a CR2 or PP2 together, such as poses, materials, props, figures, but I am not certain of that since I don't do it). I do this to make finding files -- on my HDD -- easier. In addition, you can use the "favorites" feature in the Poser library to create shortcuts to files, and you can organize the favorites however you like, with as simple or as complicated a structure as you want. No meta-data needed.
I also find it useful to convert a great many CR2s -- rigged figures -- into props because many don't need to be figures and I like to be able to split parts of figures into pieces and delete some geometry from my scene, rather than just making it invisible -- because I make MASSIVE scenes these days. In Poser, this is simple and requires a couple of mouse clicks. I have no idea how to do this in DS, unfortunately.
For Daz files, you must leave the files in the data folders and runtime>textures alone. But, from what I understand, you can rename and move the other folders however you like. I do this as well.
Neither DS nor Poser has a problem with my file structure, and since I use the same basic concept with both types of files, I can find items with some speed, both in the software as I use it, or on my HDD when I need to inspect the actual files.
Edit: PS, FirstBastion -- I LOVE your work and have a great many of your sets. I recommend them whenever I can. I wish your recent offerings came with Poser CF's, but I do understand that it's not worth the effort to make them, and you seem philosophically inclined to promote DS as software. Totally cool with me. There are still a few things, (I think!!) that are in your store that I can use in Poser that I don't already own (then again, maybe I have them ALL), so I'm not done buying your stuff yet. :) In any case, your products make it into just about every single render of mine. So I remain a fan.