Mask & Multipass Toolbox light rendering question
SnowSultan
Posts: 3,644
When rendering multiple light passes with this new tool, what is the recommended order and blending modes to layer the renders in Photoshop? I tried combining an Advanced Ambient light and an Advanced Spotlight, and there just doesn't seem to be a way to keep all of the shadows intact when layering.
This is an excellent tool by the way and I would highly recommend it. I used the old Mask Creator religiously in every render no matter how outdated it was, and this is even better. The current image I'm working on has 27 masks already and I'm still in the raw 'fixing' stage. Every serious Studio user needs a utility like this.
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Thank you for the recommendation I'm a bit on the fence about this but I really miss being able to render masks, could never get the old one to work for me in 4.
Is this reasonably easy to use?
So far it has seemed pretty easy to use for me. It comes with a small pdf explaining a couple things as well. It was pretty easy to figure out how to get different actors/nodes/surfaces to each render as a mask in any combination for me. It also has a tab that makes separate renders for lights easily. It seemed to do the mask and light renders pretty quickly as well.
Although I sometimes used masks in my 2d computer art, I have not traditionally used a lot of masks and post edit in my 3D art. This program has enticed me to consider doing it a lot more. I am happy with my purchase for sure.
I generally start with a pure black base layer and go from ambient light upward with the key light being on the top layer setting all the layers baring the Ambient layer to Screen and adjusting the Opacity to suit. I find using a Multipass technique like this requires a different way in lighting and thinking IMHO. I find if the lights are low in intensity to render with I can easily make that layer bright by duplicating that layer in Photoshop. Having a black base with the ambient light layer just above allows me to lower the effect of the ambient light layer by just adjusting the layer opacity. Also using the Multipass light rendering, again in my opinion, requires the usage of Masks to get a better blend of light and shadows, between fore, mid and background elements
Anyone who has a Dreamlight active membership, there is a great PDF called DL_TheMagicOfLayers in the Library.
Spydyr62 I didn't think the User Guide needed any more as DraagonStorm provided a lot of info in the script window itself. Did you find is useful?
We both decided it wouldn't be a tutorial on how to do layers as explained in the user guide. That will take a while to do and to really get the best use out of this script that tutorial will take a while to make. I don't want to make any promises but I will see what I can do on this side. It would give me an excuse to make a cool pic though. :)
Thank you for the recommendation I'm a bit on the fence about this but I really miss being able to render masks, could never get the old one to work for me in 4.
Is this reasonably easy to use?IMO I think it is. I had to learn to use it on my own without much help to see how easy it was so I could right the user guide. I like from many POV's but the main ones for me is the masking and able to select either nodes of surfaces within the script window instead of going back and forth like we had to with SMC.
Thank you, I will give that a try. I think overall, light render layering works best though when you have one light with shadows and another with no shadows or AO (then you can just use Lighten or Lighter Color). I had the same problems with ReLight, and it's not an issue with the tools. I just haven't found a way to stack two layers with shadows over each other, keep all the shadows, and also add the illumination from each.
Scorpio: yes, this is a very easy tool to use. It pops up in a window with multiple tabs for creating masks, light passes, and other tasks. You select the surfaces or objects that you want masked from a list rather than having to do it in the Surfaces panel first, which is nice when you've got smart propped items buried in a figure's hierarchy and can't find them easily. It can also render masks for animation and save masks in different formats (although you're still fine saving them as JPGs).
p.s. Mask Creator actually still works in DAZ Studio 4.7, you just have to select the surfaces you want masked by hand and use the Surfaces render option (the others no longer work). I did it for the 27 masks I'm currently using in my latest pic, but I'll be using Mask and Multipass Toolbox from now on.
Oh and I noticed today it also render masks of Instanced objects too so if you don't want the instance in the mask you will need to hide it first.
I thought the included User Guide was good. The script is fairly intuitive. I agree with you not doing a included tutorial on using the masks in whatever post editing program. Different post editing programs may handle masks a little different each. Most of them have pretty good documentation online for how to use masks for their particular program. If you have any tips or tricks for how to do cool things with it though I am sure many would be all ears. :-)
Thanks I am thinking strongly of doing a tut on what I know and learnt when working with layers to build a scene up giving total control over light and shadows and using masks in the mix and possibly AOA's volume of Fog cam.
To use masks in Photoshop:
- render mask(s) in Studio
- open Photoshop, load actual render that you want to import masks into
- create a new blank Channel (click the little blank paper icon in the Channels panel)
- load mask render, choose Select -> All and copy (ctrl-c)
- switch to your actual render, select the new blank Channel you created, and paste in place (shift-ctrl-V)
- rename Channel based on the mask so you can find it easily (like "hair", "skin", etc).
To load a selection from the mask so you can edit only that particular area, ctrl-left click on the Channel.
I made an Action to do this for me almost instantly because I use a large number of masks.
A problem with old mask creator is it changes shading rate to 1. I used to set shading rate to 0.05 because some shaders need it.
Is it also a problem with new Mask & Multipass or it works ok with low shading rate?
I would like to test directly because this tool looks too much fantastic, but my (very) evuuul goverment/bank plays with us bloking our credit card when this must be works, so I only can buy in $ in very short (and randomly) time intervals. It would be very kind is someone can answer my question while I get buy it.
excellent question gilikshe. I think DraagonStorm will have to answer that one.
If you render all your masks after your main image has been rendered (which I thought everyone does), does it matter what the shading rate is or if it gets changed? Maybe you have a different workflow though, so hopefully like Szark said, DraagonStorm can pop in and perhaps answer that.
The script does not change any of your render settings.
All of your render settings are saved when the script is started. By default Masks are rendered in OpenGL, unless you have LAMH or the Furify shaders in your scene, or have check of the box to override OpenGL, then the render type is software. After the masks are finished the Render Type is set back to what ever it was before the script was started.
The script does not change any of your render settings.
All of your render settings are saved when the script is started. By default Masks are rendered in OpenGL, unless you have LAMH or the Furify shaders in your scene, or have check of the box to override OpenGL, then the render type is software. After the masks are finished the Render Type is set back to what ever it was before the script was started.
Thanks DraagonStorm for the fast answer. Thanks also for this tool which was very needed. This seems to cover two old and no-updated tools and have other interesting uses. I am dying for buy it and test it.
I bought this product yesterday because, (a) it was on sale and I thought it would be a useful tool and (b) it gave me an opportunity to get LIE Baler (which is needed for Skin Builder) at half price too in the Avalanche sale.
However, I'm no Photoshop/Gimp expert so I'd just love to see some examples of what can be achieved using masks.
Otherwise, for multipass, I've tried other methods but found they added so much time to the render that I have avoided it since. Again, some examples of what is possible or some tutorials would be appreciated. I found one by Dreamlight but I doubt the claims of time-saving made in the video.
Marble: I don't have any before and after images handy, but masks are very important if you want to do selective color correction. One example of that would be if you wanted to darken parts of a room background; it would be very hard to manually select everything behind the characters. If you render a mask for the room, you'll then have a ready-to-use selection that lets you do any sort of editing to the room without affecting anything else.
Another simple but common use would be to adjust the skin tone of a figure in postwork rather than having to edit the texture itself before rendering. Just mask the skin and adjust the hue or saturation in your paint program to make it the exact shade you want. I do that in every picture I make.
Hope that helps a little. :)
My knowledge of Photoshop layers goes all the way back to... oh... Snow Sultan's instructional post yesterday (thank you :) ). I've only had time for a quick mess about with this fabby plug-in and (as is probably evident!) the before/after effort below only took about ten minutes to do. Turning Millennium Horse LE into a bright pink version of My Little Pony was even quicker, but he's too embarrassed to show his face :)
The limitations of my ancient computer when it comes to rendering mean that I'm particularly thrilled with the prospect of having decent hair for my figures once I've put some actual time into this, as that is where things often fall short here. This really was a quick test run - there aren't even any lights in the image beyond the standard Daz Studio light - but hopefully it gives some idea of how useful the plugin could be.
Last one, I promise. Definitely done with the posting fit now. (I've just discovered the versatility of masks - humour me :) )
Those are very good examples dclane, especially the last one! Masking is vital for any serious postwork in any program, and even if you're making a simple picture, masks gives you the ability to experiment and change your picture after the 3D work is done.
Here is another example of using the masks. The original render is on the left. I created a mask render of just G2F's skin, and used this together with one of Ron's condensation brushes to try and make G2F look like she is sweating very badily on a hot day in the study.
I know it does not look very good, it is just something I knocked up quickly, but it is a good example of using a mask to ensure Gimp only selects the skin, overwise the brush (which is very large) would paint droplets all over the clothing and the background, which is clearly not what we want.
Yes.
In the meantime, I've viewed a couple of masking tutorials on YouTube and can't believe I've never made use of this PS/Gimp tool before. I'm really looking forward to having some fun with masks - the possibilities are just starting to dawn on me.
Thanks.