Hesitating about Keiko
Hera
Posts: 1,958
Regardless of Keiko looking pretty and have some nice items, I have no use for her without a male counterpart. So can anyone plese inform me when he's due? If he'll be around in february or if I'd have to wait a year for him.
(I'm still sitting with Giselle and waiting for her male counterpart so naturally I need an answer to this one)
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There is no guarantee that she will have a male counterpart. I took a chance on Aiko 6 this time and hope there will be a Hiro 6 and his style will match unlike A5 and H5. This has been a sore spot with me since Genesis, DAZ needs to make a commitment that uniquely styled figures/morphs characters have a male and female and they need to knock off all the figures/morphs characters that can be created from the body and head morph pack.
Agreed, since there is that gender split in Gen2F and Gen2M, swapping genders is more difficult than it was with Genesis. To match H5, I could always add some female shapes to the gene pool, now it requires GenX2. Not everyone has it.
Moreover, new major shapes mean more assets like clothes and hairstyles of a particular genre. After some time passes after a release, we get a dry season of quite typical content (mostly female, mostly dresses, modern wear and skimpwear). On the other hand, if you have to compile two bundles for, say, F5, you get more comical fantasy items and Arnold-influenced sets that otherwise would be not as likely to be created.
I always buy the female figure first, but I really like doing girl+guy pieces, so it's nice whenever there are counterpart figures available. I think DAZ may be missing on some marketing synergies by delaying the arrival of the men (e.g. Michael 6's gestation period was way too long), or by not having them at all.
I also would suggest that A6+H6 and V6+M6 etc, should have been made into bundles at every grade from "Starter" through "Pro".
Totally seconded. Who knows why do they stick to the harem scheme this generation?
Totally seconded. Who knows why do they stick to the harem scheme this generation?
LOL Great way to put it!
LOL Great way to put it!
I'm glad you like it :).
But it's not just a joke... We actually see a ration when one man is pitted against more than two women. Heck, two of those males aren't even human! :lol: Just look:
Michael 6
Gianni 6
Jayden 6
Lee 6
Brodie 6
Minotaur 6
Reptilian 6
versus
Victoria 6
Olympia 6
Josie 6
Mei Lin 6
Belle 6
Aiko 6
Stephanie 6
Keiko 6
Gia 6
Lilith 6
Giselle 6
Girl 6
Did I miss anyone?
I read threads like this and i feel like the only DS user that ever uses any of the morphs to make any characters. Of the list above, I only have V6 because she was a gift and Giselle since i had a commission client that wanted something closer to that look that i couldn't get with morphs or custom morphs. Even if I did have more addon characters from the list above, I would probably never use any of them 100%, I would have to dial in other parts of other figures and custom morphs.
I showed a friend a test render of a character the other day that was pure GF2 and her morphs and was asked immediately, "is that Olympia?". I was a little upset thinking that what i had put together wasn't unique enough, but I was also kinda happy with knowing I could come that close by myself. Then again, my friend is a plug and play content user with no concept of modeling or how mesh works to create 3d objects.
Oh well, the bright side to new addon characters are the new outfits and accessories, so keep'em coming!.
If anything, I would rather see more figures that are based on a digital clone of a famous person more than a specific look, but that would probably cost much more and have some legal ramifications attached to it. That being said, even though i rarely render or buy male figures, i would purchase a Brad Pitt character, or Chris Hemsworth, or Chris Evens if the likeness/complete package was spot on.
I dunno, even though Gen 2 men females have split, it still seems that Gen 2 guys are getting the bad end of the deal.
I was told the gender split would make clothing design easier, but instead it just means less product for men, since morphs and such aren't as easily interchangeable. Hence you buy morphs for each gender now.
I also strongly suspect the men of gen 2 have female breast geometry now, which is why gen 2 guys often looks a bit chesty.
Minotaur 6 and Reptilian 6 doesn't count more than horse6!
(Or dog and cat 6 if we'll ever have those)
And while you may use both Gia and Lilith together with Gianni or Aiko and MeiLin together with Lee, Giselle is kinda special and need a boy of her kind. Someone slender, elfine and ethereal in the same way. The same goes for Keiko, thus I pass on her, yet I might get her when her male counterpart finally shows up. In November or smth.
What I want is actually:
* David 6
* Gilbert 6 (to go with Giselle)
* Orion 6 (to go with Olympia)
* Freak 6 (who could be pitched with Gia as well, but I seriously think that Gianni has replaced Freak)
DAZ's human figures have been uni-mesh since Victoria and Michael 3 (and possibly before, I never used gen 1 or 2) with the female shape being the base. G2M is based off G2F's mesh with weight mapping optimized for the male shape and a bit of edge slide sliding on the mesh so it should hold its male shape better when morphing and posing. I don't see DAZ going to separate male and female meshes with out some major tech development that would justify the change and creation of G3F and G3M.
What? Genesis 3??? Did I hibernate?!
I've also hesitated, but not any longer ...
Actually I believe the unimesh shape didn't have any gender and the both the male and female were made from that base, not the male being made from the female. If one gender was made from the other, it would have been to make a female from the male, as it's much easier to make a female (or kids) from the male than the other way around.
Actually the first unimesh were Micheal and the original Stephanie. Stephanie was created from Mike's mesh. It was a weird combination of Vicki's body morph with Mike's UV mapping.
If you're willing to do some poking around in the file system and a bit of find-and-replace in the files, it isn't hard to transfer morphs between the Genesis 2 figures. Here's G2M with 85% Keiko head and 50% Keiko body (past that, the chest shape starts to collapse).
I'm not buying Keiko, I'm a little miffed that there is no male counterpart for Aiko 6. I LOVE her and want to use her for some stories, but not male, no story use. I have been resorting to using Hitomi and Hiro 5 for the cutesy look, and A4/H4 morphs for other genres.
I do want Keiko, she is so cute! But without a male counterpart, she is pretty useless to me. I have OOT's Dolly, I bought her as soon as I can because I love the Fairytale dolls that she is based off of. I will buy a male counterpart if OOT ever decide to make one. I have both the fiends forever morphs. I tried using the boy, but his face is a bit too harsh with her.
I can understand why there are more females than males, the problem is style/genre.
I prefer not to think of things in such black and white terms. The real benefit to Keiko being a Genesis figure is the ability to mix and match morphs. On the other Keiko thread there were already some very creative people expanding on my concept of turning Keiko into a male figure, and some with greater degrees of success than my own contribution.
No matter what the figure you're given, there's a way to change the gender if you've got a bit of know how and a little cunning.
I agree with HeraldOfFire, I can never really understand why people need these exact "pairs" given the flexibility we already have. A number of people have commented on Keiko's resemblence to A3. In this case it is a simple matter of exporting the H3 shape over to G2M (Gen X2 helps here, but there are other ways to do it) and you have at least a good start for the male equivalent. I know Keiko has unusually long/thin arms and legs, but there are other morphs around to help reproduce this affect.
I am not saying that a direct male equivalent released by DAZ is not desirable, it is, as the more options the better, but there are other solutions if this is not available.
Bottom line, someone somewhere would look at us and say, "why wait for Aiki or Keiko, why not build your own characters, clothes, environments and props" while someone else is saying, "why use DAZ Studio or Poser, why not write your own software" , etc. it's all a matter of degree.
Hope that helps you understand. ;-)
--Walt Sterdan
Hi Walt, indeed I agree with all your points, there is a lot of people that neither can, nor want to use some of the more advanced features to create alternate looks. The load, pose and render crowd, which may indeed be the majority of users, will want an out of the box solution.
I guess mine, and HeraldOfFire's point, was that morphing characters using Genesis/Genesis 2 should not be as advanced an issue to most people compared to the much more tricky problems of modeling, texturing etc your own characters or props.
The point about time and additional assets is very wise.
I guess mine, and HeraldOfFire's point, was that morphing characters using Genesis/Genesis 2 should not be as advanced an issue to most people compared to the much more tricky problems of modeling, texturing etc your own characters or props.
Totally agreed. I love morphing, but making suitable clothes and hairstyles takes more time.
In the example I linked to it literally took no longer than a couple of seconds. Just dial up Keiko and G2M and instant masculinity, so time really isn't such an issue and nor is experience since it's accessible to even the most basic user by default. That's really why I suggested it.
Again, I can understand why people may want a dedicated figure, but these days that has very little impact overall. Chances are most people are already spinning the dials to create custom figures rather than using purely presets, simply because they want the style to be shared across multiple characters without them looking like clones. Genesis just gives you the tools to take it that extra step.
In the example I linked to it literally took no longer than a couple of seconds. Just dial up Keiko and G2M and instant masculinity, so time really isn't such an issue and nor is experience since it's accessible to even the most basic user by default. That's really why I suggested it.
Again, I can understand why people may want a dedicated figure, but these days that has very little impact overall. Chances are most people are already spinning the dials to create custom figures rather than using purely presets, simply because they want the style to be shared across multiple characters without them looking like clones. Genesis just gives you the tools to take it that extra step.
I don't disagree, Havos had stated that "I can never really understand why people need these exact “pairs” given the flexibility we already have." and I was explaining why some people do like matched pairs of stylized figures. We didn't really need Lee, for example, but with Lee came some great hairstyles, morphs, textures and clothing that we didn't have, couldn't convert from other generations and couldn't convert from any of the females. If a "twin" for Aiko or Keiko arrives, no doubt they'll come with a boatload of stuff, some of which is similar to other items, but there'll be some new stuff that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
I still convert some clothing from Mike2 and Vicki2 (and most DAZ figures in-between), and I autofit constantly, but there's still some items that don't convert well and I'd gladly rebuy them for new figures.
I totally agree that we have a wealth of flexibility, but that's not going to stop me from buying counterpart figures and some of the new items that come with them. Despite your success with making a male counterpart for Keiko (again, absolutely brilliant) I'm pretty sure you'll still buy a male version should he arrive. ;-)
-- Walt Sterdan
I agree also, don't understand the "need" for a mate for any figure, especially with all the options available, more than any other time that I can think of.
if it is indeed mainly because users just want the plug and play content option, i find that sad since the main purpose of using apps like DS is to be creative. I find the further away I can make a scene from what the plug and play option was, the happier i will be with the final results since it will be closer to "my' work and expression than that of the original content creator. I dare say we are spoiled beyond belief with the options and quality we have today and the way it all works together, especially compared to how it was when V3 was released.
I thought about it but until I see the male, I'm not buying keiko :( It just isn't worth it.
Because by that argument, we shouldn't buy keiko because there's A3. If we're to buy the new generation figures as they come out, we have to have a complete toolbox with which to utlize them. Otherwise, we may as well use H3 and A3 and save money.
Because by that argument, we shouldn't buy keiko because there's A3. If we're to buy the new generation figures as they come out, we have to have a complete toolbox with which to utlize them. Otherwise, we may as well use H3 and A3 and save money.
I did not wish to make it sound like I thought that. Keiko 6 is a much newer generation than A3, and superior in many ways, I am not critizing anyone that purchased it. I was merely pointing out that options did exist to at least get close to a Keiko male mate (preferably in G2M for better bending, textures etc), and could serve this purpose until a male equivalent arrives (which may be never of course!). Not ideal I know, but may be a good enough compromise for some, though as we have heard, clearly not all.
If that's so, then DAZ should be cranking out male figures over females, especially given all the talk we have here about "flexibility options" (which I still find to be ironic given by the necessity of the gender-split).
If that's so, then DAZ should be cranking out male figures over females, especially given all the talk we have here about "flexibility options" (which I still find to be ironic given by the necessity of the gender-split).
The figures were created from the same base, but I'm guessing the girls drive the sales. That's why there's so many. Probably wouldn't make much sense to crank out guys if it's' not going to generate sales to cover the effort. At least the tech has improved from the pre-Genesis days where you can use the gene pool to make a good enough match for those missing characters. There enough resources available to make what you need and use GenX (or the transfer tool) to move what you need over from the other gender.