Is the current EULA covering 3d renderings for HMD, augmented reality or holographic computing?

linvanchene

3d renderings like images and animations for Head Mounted Displays, augmented reality applications or holographic computing will be supported by software applications some of the DAZ customers work with in the near future.

What I am worried about is that when this technology arrives DAZ customers will not be able to be among the first to actually make full use of that technology because it is not covered by the current EULA.

With all the exceitment about 3d printing I am under the impression that many people on this forum may not be aware how close holographic computing technology allready is.

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Quick experiment to illustrate this:

Do you know what a HMD is without looking it up?

Hint: Instead of googling HMD you could just read the first sentence of this post again.

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Have a look at this tweet by John Carmack about HMD:

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/563531551304974336

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Oculus Rift, Microsoft HoloLens and your next generation smart phone could be exceiting new areas in which licensed 3d content could be used.

A video example:

HoloLens | Holo Lens Studio Demo | Windows 10 | Microsoft HoloLens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qym11JnFQBM

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Is anyone else interested in creating content for such applications?

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Have there allready been made any kind of announcement or statements in some forum posts by DAZ about this:

Is the current EULA covering 3d renderings for HMD, augmented reality or holographic computing?

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WendyLuvsCatz

I think it may fall under the indy and commercial gaming licenses
as 3D simulations are mentioned

WendyLuvsCatz

I do know what it is BTW there are android camera apps for it already, most use a print on a card with a dot in a square but some use global positioning too such as the Google one.
You see things superimposed on your live android camera view as you point it at the card or use the GPS apps.
Mostly commercial sites for the latter.

linvanchene

wendy♥catz said:

I think it may fall under the indy and commercial gaming licenses
as 3D simulations are mentioned

For game like holographic applications this would make sense.
The Holo Lens Studio Demo software where you actually are able to manipulte the projected holographic 3d models and edit them could fall into such a category.

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But what about animated holographic videos and holographic images that are just displayed in 3d space?

Its a bit hard to describe

- but imagine instead of sending a 2d image of your 3d scene to your friend you send a 3d image that shows the scene as 3d holographic projection.

- in one version you just look at the 3d image like looking trough a window into a world behind it

- in another version you might actually even be able to walk trough the 3d scene.

- imagine a holographic video that shows a Genesis 2 figure or a cute pet walking around in your room.

- imagine a holographic video that projects a 3d scene in front of you and you watch it like a movie.

- imagine a 3d hologram figure that has exactly the same size and look as a 3d print but is projected into 3d space.

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In all those examples you are not able to interact with the scene as you would be able to in a game.
You are just able to look at the holograms from different angles.

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In all those cases it is assumed that for the end user it is not possible to recreate or extract the original form of the 3d model like an .obj or textures from the dedicated file type holographic images or videos use.
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Those examples are more similar to 2d renderings of an image or a video that are covered by the section "Two Dimensional Works" in the current EULA.

Problem just is holographic images and videos are 3d renderings and not 2d renderings.

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Are there any statements of DAZ staff that give any kind of indication how they make a difference between holographic images and holographic videos and "Games"?

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I really try to make this as short as possible. But this are new and complicated areas that are difficult to describe in only a few words in a foreign language.

Richard Haseltine

Is actual 3D data being exchanged, or is it only two 2D streams that are combined to give a 3D look (as with 3D films)? Clearly these aren't strictly holograms, so I'm not clear on what they are.

throttlekitty

Richard Haseltine said:

Is actual 3D data being exchanged, or is it only two 2D streams that are combined to give a 3D look (as with 3D films)? Clearly these aren't strictly holograms, so I'm not clear on what they are.

The headwear has a display or projector, as well as a 3d tracker, which feeds back into a computer that does the renders to be displayed. So, no, 3d data is not sent, just images.

wiz

You always need the 3D models for these systems. You can't just do renders. You have an AR engine like Metaio or Vuforio tracking the user location and all the objects and rendering them into eye space on the fly.

You can prerender, as is done for some Oculus 360 degree movies, but in general, that looks like a stinking pile of doo.

Richard Haseltine

In which case it would need the Game Developer License, since the distributed code would include the geometry (and textures).

Ademnus

throttlekitty said:

Richard Haseltine said:

Is actual 3D data being exchanged, or is it only two 2D streams that are combined to give a 3D look (as with 3D films)? Clearly these aren't strictly holograms, so I'm not clear on what they are.

The headwear has a display or projector, as well as a 3d tracker, which feeds back into a computer that does the renders to be displayed. So, no, 3d data is not sent, just images.

Think of the headwear as no different from your monitor, in this regard. The data is on your computer, and you watch it on your monitor. If you are playing a 3d game, or viewing a 3d sim via goggles, it's all the same; the computer has 3d data it is processing and sending to the screen. That's the data you'd be exchanging when you sell your software -thus, you'd need a developer's license.

linvanchene

Thank you all for your feedback. :coolsmile:

I opened a support ticket with DAZ to ask for official feedback and consideration of the following questions:

1) Is the current EULA covering 3d renderings for HMD, augmented reality or holographic computing?

2) Are there any plans to update the EULA specifically for HMD, augmented reality or holographic computing?

3) Will DAZ 3D make any kind of distinction between
- executable Games
that require a "Game license"
- distributing 3d holographic image or video file containers to the End User of HMD, augmented reality or holographic computing applications
that will be covered by the standard Terms of Use in the EULA

I put a link to this thread in the support ticket and included a 3 page pdf document.

On page 1 the main questions of this thread are summarized.
On page 2 a detailed explanation how and why I make a distinction between games and the distribution of holographic image and video file containers was included.
On page 3 specific suggestions were added how a revised version of the EULA could make distinctions based on the type of intended and agreed USAGE and cover all FORMS of the distributed 3d model like 2d rendering, 3d prints and holographic 3d renderings.

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I will not post post the contents of page 2 and page 3 in this thread unless an official representative of DAZ indicates that they would agree with openly publishing those suggestions in order to get some feedback from the community.

linvanchene

Update:

On February 11, 2015, 16:36 I received the answer:

"If the content (mesh, texture images, etc.) are included and distributed with the final product, such as being embedded in a game, then the game developer license would be required.

If the holographic images are created via renders, no additional licensing would be required.

DAZ 3D currently has not plans to modify the Eula"

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I submitted three follow up questions:

1) Are there any plans to add tags or filters to "DAZ Original" products in the smart content and the DIM?

Customers may want to find out very quickly which products are covered by the Game license while working in DAZ Studio.
When working on a holographic image project customers may want to toggle a filter in the smart content pane so only "DAZ Original" items are displayed.

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2) Are there any plans to update the criteria under which one needs to purchase an Indy or a Commercial Game Developer license?

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3) How is the criteria "This license is good for THREE game titles or projects ONLY." going to be handled when distributing holographic content with (mesh, texture images, etc.) Included?

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In the support ticket I also listed some examples to illustrate those questions. I did not add them in this post in order not to speculate.

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Update / Edit:

Allready received the answers in the support ticket today on February 12, 2015, 10:54 .

1. There are plans to make smart content and even DAZ original content filter better in DIM. When this will go out I cannot discuss.

2. There are no plan to change the commercial or Indy game license terms, but thanks for the ideas I will let the marketing team know about them.

3. The 3 game projects would mean 3 augmented reality projects. It does not refer to the users of the augmented reality. In essence you could create three project files and share these three files with who ever you want.

Thank you for the quick replys!

I assume that after the GPU Conference in Silicon Valley march 17-20 more specific information may be available about the different applications and file types.

With the help of your answers I now feel in a more relaxed position to wait and see what will be possible.