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ERC questions...

RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 3,037
edited December 1969 in Daz Studio Discussion

Ok...I have some questions for the morphing experts out there.

How do I remove ERCs? Is there a way to do it when making the morph? How do I know if I need them in a morph?

Do I need to turn on auto-follow on my morphs? What happens if I do? What happens if I don't?

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841
    edited December 1969

    I'm not sure what you mean about removing ERC links - some more details please.

    Auto-follow on tells DS to create a morph in conformed figures when the morph in the base figure is dialled up (if there isn't one already). Leaving it off will prevent DS from creating an automatic morph. You'd probably want to turn it off for something that shouldn't be mimicked by clothes or hair - eyelash morphs, for example.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 3,037
    edited December 1969

    On the ERC’s, I think part of the Auto-Adjust to Shape portion of my tutorial OR the ERC Freeze portion has added ERC’s to some morphs I am making. Remember I am no expert on this by any means and my tutorial (below in my sig) was written by listening to experts and reciting what they said so I don’t really know WHY I do the ERC freeze, I know that I was told to do so and never questioned it. What exactly am I telling DAZ to do with my morph when I auto-adjust to shape (I think that is self-explanatory but please add detail where you see fit) and what is done when I do an ERC freeze?

    Anywho, apparently my morph have ERC’s in them which I did not necessarily WANT but are in their from my tutorial process. I need to know if they are needed, why that is, and if not, if there a way to remove them?

    Ok, so for Auto-follow a morph that affects proportion or major body shape, auto-follow needs to be on. For minor tweaks like a for a nose, then it does not. And if we have an eyelash morph and a hair prop falls across the face, then the auto-follow might make the hair “ripple” in that area like I have seen on a few morphs in the past, is that correct?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841
    edited December 1969

    When a morph reshapes the body to the point that the rigging doesn't work the Adjust Rigging to Shape moves the centres, the points about which the joints turn, so that they are once more inside the mesh at about the equivalent point - though in some cases that may need a bit of manual adjustment. The ERC Feeze is to link the moved joints to the morph, so that when it is off the joints are in the normal position and when it is at 100% they are moved to the modified position (and when it's at half strength they are moved half-way). You need an adjustment and ERC Freeze only if the shape has changed sufficiently that the default rigging does not work, and the freeze should link only the change joint centres as controlled properties of the morph slider. If you have unwanted ERC links you can find and delete them in the Property Editor.

    Yes, that right - the hair problems have often been down to eyelash or ear morphs. Eyelashes shouldn't be set to Auto Follow, ears are harder to judge.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 3,037
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    When a morph reshapes the body to the point that the rigging doesn't work the Adjust Rigging to Shape moves the centres, the points about which the joints turn, so that they are once more inside the mesh at about the equivalent point - though in some cases that may need a bit of manual adjustment. The ERC Feeze is to link the moved joints to the morph, so that when it is off the joints are in the normal position and when it is at 100% they are moved to the modified position (and when it's at half strength they are moved half-way). You need an adjustment and ERC Freeze only if the shape has changed sufficiently that the default rigging does not work, and the freeze should link only the change joint centres as controlled properties of the morph slider. If you have unwanted ERC links you can find and delete them in the Property Editor.

    But how do I know if I NEED them? Are ERC's injected by necessity only in the ERC Freeze or are extraneous ones put in? How do I know if I need them? Is there a good rule of thumb to follow


    Yes, that right - the hair problems have often been down to eyelash or ear morphs. Eyelashes shouldn't be set to Auto Follow, ears are harder to judge.

    Cool, so as a rule of thumb, if your morph requires Aut0-Adjust Rigging to Shape and ERC Freeze, then you will most likely need to use Auto-Follow ON. If it is a minor tweak with no real change in the figure a whole and ESPECIALLY ear and lashes and head morphs, it is better to leave it off? In General, that is.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841
    edited December 1969

    RKane_1 said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    When a morph reshapes the body to the point that the rigging doesn't work the Adjust Rigging to Shape moves the centres, the points about which the joints turn, so that they are once more inside the mesh at about the equivalent point - though in some cases that may need a bit of manual adjustment. The ERC Feeze is to link the moved joints to the morph, so that when it is off the joints are in the normal position and when it is at 100% they are moved to the modified position (and when it's at half strength they are moved half-way). You need an adjustment and ERC Freeze only if the shape has changed sufficiently that the default rigging does not work, and the freeze should link only the change joint centres as controlled properties of the morph slider. If you have unwanted ERC links you can find and delete them in the Property Editor.

    But how do I know if I NEED them? Are ERC's injected by necessity only in the ERC Freeze or are extraneous ones put in? How do I know if I need them? Is there a good rule of thumb to follow

    ERC doesn't create itself - it requires either ERC freeze, linking selected non-zero properties to a selected master property or creating a link via the Property Editor. You need ERC if you want one property to control another - a morph to control the joint offsets to adjust the rigging, or correction morphs kicking in so that an expression morph still works with a radical head morph applied for example.

    Yes, that right - the hair problems have often been down to eyelash or ear morphs. Eyelashes shouldn't be set to Auto Follow, ears are harder to judge.

    Cool, so as a rule of thumb, if your morph requires Aut0-Adjust Rigging to Shape and ERC Freeze, then you will most likely need to use Auto-Follow ON. If it is a minor tweak with no real change in the figure a whole and ESPECIALLY ear and lashes and head morphs, it is better to leave it off? In General, that is.

    Not really, no - auto-follow should be on when it will make sense for a conformer to try to mimic the morph in the main figure, and off when it won't. There are many reasons you might decide either way - for example, the clothing cleavage modifier set uses two actual morphs for each visible morph (a hidden one linked by ERC to the visible one); one morph, with AutoFollow on, fills in the space between the breasts and the clothing follows, while the other, with AutoFollow off, undoes the effect on the base figure while leaving it active in the clothing.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 3,037
    edited December 1969

    The only problem with the statement “ERC doesn’t create itself” is I don’t know WHERE in the process of the tutorial ERC was input into my morph. I can only deduce it was put in when I did an ERC Freeze. If that is the case, please let me know if that is (to your bet supposition in review of the tutorial in my sig) when it does it. Please also give me your best educated supposition if it is necessary for my morph to work properly, and if I should consider doing something to remove them, and how to remove them if I should. * smile*.

    Again, I am not familiar with what each step in my tutorial does, only that it is done to make a successful full body morph where the rigging must change due to shape. It would infinitely helpful to have a breakdown on what EXACTLY each selection, button, and check box in Auto-Adjust Rigging to Shape and ERC Freeze. *hint, hint, smile*

    But a rule of thumb means “rule in general”. The Clothing Cleavage Modifier is a great example of an exception AND a quite inventive use to boot of the tools available but if the figure is changed in a significant way that requires use of Auto-Adjust to Rigging and ERC Freeze AND YOU WANT the clothes to follow the figure’s shape when it morphs then GENERALLY you want to implement Auto-Follow on. And if the morph is a minor one and may interfere with or disturb an auto-follow piece of clothing or hair, then it is GENERALLY best to leave it off, correct?

    Thank you so much for your expertise and the educated conversation in this area. I really learn a lot using this method and do my best to share this with others.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841
    edited December 1969

    ERC and AutoFollow are unrelated. In general you would use AutoFollow on anything that would affect the clothing, so yes it would need to be a noticeable change but it could be a local change that didn't require any rig adjustment just as easily as it could a complete reshaping.

    And yes, the ERC Freeze step would be the step that adds ERC.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 3,037
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    ERC and AutoFollow are unrelated. In general you would use AutoFollow on anything that would affect the clothing, so yes it would need to be a noticeable change but it could be a local change that didn't require any rig adjustment just as easily as it could a complete reshaping.

    Ok, I understand that a lot better now, I believe. Thank you.

    And yes, the ERC Freeze step would be the step that adds ERC.

    Are the ERC it adds the ones DAZ believes are necessary to make the figure hold its shape and are calculated thusly or does it add a bunch of ones that can be pared down?

    If I do decide to pare it down, how do I go about it in the Property Editor?

    Am I better off most likely leaving it alone?

    Again, thank you for helping me and others understand this better.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841
    edited December 1969

    ERC Freeze, by default, links every changed property to the one you set as master. That's why it is important not to have anything set that you don't want linked, though you can (and should) run your eye down the list and deselect anything that is included in error.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 3,037
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    ERC Freeze, by default, links every changed property to the one you set as master. That's why it is important not to have anything set that you don't want linked, though you can (and should) run your eye down the list and deselect anything that is included in error.

    Excellent. How do i know if it is needed of not?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841
    edited December 1969

    Well, if you mean the linkages - if you are adjusting rigging then the only entries you want are for x, y and z values of the joint centres.

  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 3,037
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    Well, if you mean the linkages - if you are adjusting rigging then the only entries you want are for x, y and z values of the joint centres.

    Not quite sure I understand you, sir. I apologize.

    Could you please provide perhaps an example?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841
    edited December 1969

    I applied the Faerie morph to Genesis, then I used the Joint Editor tool to move the lForearm out of place (which would be a bloody silly thing to do for real, but it serves as an illustration). I'd also moved and rotated the Genesis figure, but it was otherwise zeroed. Having selected the figure and the morph (FBFaerie) in the top lists, I then unchecked the translations and rotations that I didn't want to link and left the axis Origin values (the moved joint centres) for the lForearm checked.

    02_ERC_Freeze_-_dialogue.jpg
    373 x 697 - 49K
    01_ERC_Freeze_-_move_joint.jpg
    309 x 443 - 20K
  • RKane_1RKane_1 Posts: 3,037
    edited December 1969

    Richard Haseltine said:
    I applied the Faerie morph to Genesis, then I used the Joint Editor tool to move the lForearm out of place (which would be a bloody silly thing to do for real, but it serves as an illustration). I'd also moved and rotated the Genesis figure, but it was otherwise zeroed. Having selected the figure and the morph (FBFaerie) in the top lists, I then unchecked the translations and rotations that I didn't want to link and left the axis Origin values (the moved joint centres) for the lForearm checked.

    That illustrates it pretty well, thanks! :)

    How do I know when I need to NOT include an ERC? Like when the morph is all upper torso and ERC Freeze wants to include a foot, or something?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 100,841
    edited December 1969

    By inspection - if it's offering to include something that you don't think should be there (such as a foot setting on an upper-torso morph) then Cancel and look to see what is going on with the figure - it may indicate that the figure has other morphs applied, or is posed, or that something went wrong with the morph creation.

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