Suggested software question for anyone with Blender experience.
Sigurd
Posts: 1,089
I have been using Blender for a few months now and I like it for 80 to 90 percent of what I need to do but for the rest it can be very irritating. I was wondering if anyone out there, who is familiar with Blender, uses other software like Lightwave, can tell me why or give a short comparison. I am trying to decide if I should bite the bullet and get something else.
Yes there are many videos out there describing the pros and cons but I am interested in hearing from people who work with Daz Studio as to how these shape up. For instance there is a large number of Blender tutorials that show how easily you can make great looking stuff but what they do not tell you is that it won't work with Daz.
I am not trying to start a war I just want some honest opinions. I have never used Lightwave and I am not sure if I would have the same problems with it that I encounter with Blender. That is why I wanted to hear from someone who is familiar with both.
If there is other software out there that works well with Daz for hard object sculpting I would also be interested.
Thank you.
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Comments
Very few people use just one application - it might help if you described the areas in which Blender is not suiting you or meeting your needs.
You should try something else; if aspects don't suit you, then find something that does. It may be after trying others you come back to Blender; or you may look back on it, glad to be rid of it.
It's about finding tools that suit you; I like Blender, many don't.
There isn't a right or wrong tool, or method; only an end 'product' you are happy with.
Since Blender can do everything (more-or-less) most Blender tutorials assume you will be doing everything, including the final render/animation, in Blender.
Blender, like all 3D apps (including DAZ Studio and Poser) can import/export a variety of industry-standard file formats.
The DAZ Studio and Poser native file formats (.duf, .dsf, etc, and .cr2, .pp2, etc) are not widely supported. In fact I think that Poser and DAZ Studio are the only things that understand them, except for Poser/DAZ Studio specific utilities like CR2Editor that were written by users.
If you make a simple solid prop (i.e. no joints, rigging, etc) in any 3D app. you can export it as an OBJ, import that into DAZ Studio, and it will work fine.
If you're creating something more complex, e.g. a rigged figure, it gets more complicated. If you do the rigging in your modeling app, you need to export the mesh plus rigging information in a file format that DAZ can import correctly. Alternatively you can create the unrigged mesh in your 3D app, export that as an OBJ (or OBJs?), import that/them into DS and do the rigging there.
If you're thinking dynamics (cloth/hair), physics, etc, then I think you're really in application-specific territory.
So echoing what Richard and nicstt said, you need to find the right tools for the job, which is obviously why you asked the question :)
- The first thing is to be clear exactly what the 'job' is - what exactly do you want to create? props, rigged figures, clothing, morphs, whatever?
- The second thing is that the right tools for doing a specific job are really down to personal preference, budget, etc. What works perfectly for one person is anathema to another !
Personally, I use Blender to create meshes, export as OBJ, import into Poser, rig in Poser (I very rarely do any rigging, and only very, very simple stuff!), export Poser format props/figures, import those into DS, and if I really feel it's worthwhile, export DS format props/figures.
I think you'll find that most people who create stuff mainly for DS will use <one or more modelling apps of personal preference> to create the mesh, plus DAZ Studio to do the rigging etc ... but that's just a guess.
It's interesting. My usage is pretty much the opposite. I purchase Daz content for meshes and usually discard textures. I export humanoid figures as either *.obj or *.dae and use them in Blender. I use exclusively Cycles renderer and I like having total control of final render quality.
So, I am using Daz Studio as character generator / poser.
Actually it depend on what problem you have seen for your work about blender. and what you want to do,.
OP said about sculpt, then Ifeel ,, even though we can sculpt genesis3female, in blender, you can not use it as new morph when you add new gometry for sculpt,
in daz studio.
may need to use mulit resolution, modifier, then make morph as default resoluttion,,(which sculpted or tweaked as default resolution)
and bake the scuplt shape (as high resolution) as normal (bump) or displacement, but it is not easy process,, .
actually z-brush will work better ,if you return these map in daz studio I beleive, there seems clear work flow documents already, I think.
though I do not know z-brush..
About 3d coat,, I do not know if someone use 3d-coat to make those (normal or displacement) maps for genesis3female with sculpting to add detail.
I believe I can do,, but it seems not easy process. but 3d coat is good if you hope to make, diffuse or speculoar, or metal, map (PBR) for genesis3female.
to make new texture. ( you can add tatoo, with depth easy,, even though you only use paint tool,,, but it can not make real detail map which can cotnroll shape)
I feel difficulity when I sculpt genesis in 3d coat, then make new map which can change genesis3female shape at current. maybe z-brush have clear work flow already,
I hope to see topic, who sculpt genesis(daz figture) in blender, or 3d coat, then make new normal, bump , , and use it (import) in daz studio (iray)
then apply, genesis figures, , then you can render genesis3 as if she was sculpted with detail. (like a HD morph) .
when play daz figure with other aprication,, The dificulity is DAZ rigging and original weight map way. we may lost many advance future of daz fgiure.
But if you use these 3d or sculpt aprication, to make new obj, or prop,, (then after all,, you may try rigging in daz studio,,to change it as daz fgiure,)
Bledner, and 3d coat is really powerful 3d aprication,.
then if you just import scene, and render, with blender cycles, etc,, there is plug-in already.
Then,, I really like the sura_tc way... I often try to think,, just use daz figure, as assets, in blender,,
but I have used daz studio to create scene,,, and used to daz rigging,, parameter,, original auto-follow,, morph mix system,, file system,,category,, etc,,
with daz UI. . daz figure work best when I use in daz studio,,,, (weight map,, etc)
then to work all in blender take many time for me,,, just make 3d figure posing hobby scene. with some environment,,,and props,.,,
First of all, thank you all so much for taking the time to help with this.
I am mostly about making assets for Daz. These would be primarily props, hard surface objects, buildings etc.
I was wanting to know what others who make things for Daz use and specifically if anyone had used Blender and then switched to something else and why. The tutorials online for Blender and Lightwave show really awesome results but, as I have found out with my adventures with Blender to Daz, sometimes these will not work or render at all in Daz without many hours of work and sometimes it seems, not at all. These mostly concern boolean type operations. I am not familiar at all with Lightwave so I was hoping to hear from someone with experience with both Lightwave and Blender in making things and exporting them into Daz3d. I wish there were more tutorials for Blender to Daz so I could see what can and cannot be done or perhaps what is or is not feasible.
I used CAD/CAM years ago when I was an engineer but have not done much with computer design since then. I have been playing with computer graphics/arts for years now but not crafting any of my own pieces. I started modeling and sculpting a few months back. I started learning Hexagon and modeling in Daz. I found Daz to be ok for simple stuff but a little too elementary for much of what I wanted to do. I was just getting started in Hexagon when an old friend told me about Blender. I started learning Blender and was very pleased with its ease of use and powerful modeling tools. I spent lots of time modeling in Blender and was very happy until I was about finished and exported to Daz and found that about half of my model would not work. I should have been testing these as I was going but I did not think it would be a problem. My mistake.
I did not want to invest in Lightwave and find out it is mostly the same as Blender when it comes to Daz.
If there is any other software in the 1500.00 and under range that is good for hard surface modeling and works well with Daz I would be interested in hearing about it.
Anyone know what software Stonemason or Polish uses?
Thank you all for the info.
Forgive me, but I think you're looking at this the wrong way; cash won't solve the problem. You might find Blender suits you, or maybe Hexagon, or equally that 3DS Max is the way to go.
Lots of professionals use Blender; equally lots of professions use: Modo, 3DS Max, Maya, Zbrush, Mudbox, Cinema 4D, and the list goes on.
Those professionals use what works for them. They'll use a variety of tools to suite the project, and sometimes because they need a particular export option, or file type, that could be why they chose a certain piece of software as the customer required such a format.
Whilst finding something you don't like about a package might be a reason to switch, if you do that every time you come up against something you don't like, you'll never get anything done.
You need to work round the problem you've encountered, then see if alternative software packages have methods you prefer.
Daz will work with Blender models, just like it will work with models from other packages. It isn't importing a .blend file, but an obj file, which is very widely supported; fbx can be a problem, so certainly that is one to be often avoided. If you want to use the bridge, you are pretty much restricted to Hexagon and Zbrush.
There are a number of PAs using Blender, others use Hexagon, and also Zbrush; those are I'd guess the majority of the users. I doubt they are the only ones though.
I appreciate your input. I am not trying to throw money at the problem I just wanted to let you know that I am willing to if necessary.
Blender has some issues that are getting annoying so instead of beating my head against a rock I was considering different software. I just got HardOps 8 for Blender and it works awesome in Blender but many of the features do not seem to function in Daz. Multiple times I have spent an hour or two working on a feature in Blender and made a mistake, more times that I would like to admit, and hit ctrl Z to go back and it took me back about 20 or 30 steps and would not allow me to redo. So I lost an hour or so of progress. The 'K' function to slice a plane sometimes will not allow me to slice for no apparent reason, even after 20 or 30 attempts. Little things like this.
These seem real petty but they can be frustrating, so I was wondering if anyone else had experience with these to let me know if there was an easier way to deal with this or just accept it or change software.
Is Zbrush good for hard surface modeling?
Thank you.
As far as I know, no.
Thank you. Most of what I had seen of Zbrush seemed to be soft surface so that is why I asked. I am continuing to learn Blender I just did not want to find out months from now that I was wasting my time if it was not capable of doing what I wanted to in Daz.
Knowing that other PAs are using it for hard surface modeling gives me hope.
If you have any other suggestions for obj. hard surface modeling software I would also love to check them out and maybe I could figure out how to use them in conjunction with Blender.
Once again, thank you for your time and patience.
I've hardly touched Blender, but reading between the lines, it sounds more like a problem of parametric modelling and technique than actual modelling capabilities.
I use Cinema 4D mostly and that lets you keep things parametric to some extent. Letting you go back and change step 1, the changes then filter through to step 30. Some operations will obviously require you to 'make editable', 'fix the mesh' or 'collapse the stack', whatever term your program uses.
Max seems to let you keep things parametric for much, much longer.
(Although Booleans have been improved greatly over the years, I hardly ever use them in serious work)
Many C4D users use MODO for the modelling side of things, at least they used to, before the last couple of releases improved C4D's own modelling tools greatly.
Blender has some selection and modelling tools that my version of C4D does not. I work round that the usual way, with scripts and plugins.
Have you looked at John Malcolm's modelling videos?
https://www.youtube.com/user/luxxeon3d/videos?&ab_channel=JohnMalcolm
He often models the same object in Blender and in Max, you can see how he works round the differences!
The thing is, spending some time looking at the galleries for the various software types, and really, the only limitation is the user's skills, patience and experience: that goes for them all.
I feel if OP problem is setting , how to import mesh which modeled in blender, to DAZ studio as same as blender view port.(or renderd in blender engine)
eg,,, , many boolean operation modified obj. ( made by hard Ops ) or, keep sharp edges with edge modifier, or weighted crease,, with sub-D modifier.
then import it daz studio,, or mesh which composed by many N-gons ,,,
I experienced same difficulity, few months ago with "hard Ops".plug in.
then now I prefer not use Hard Ops to make scene props for daz studio at current. untill understand best setting to igenerate mesh, for daz studio, more clear.
Hard ops much rely on blender operation. , produced mesh may not fit well without clean and re-topo twekaings for daz studio.
there are two difficuliuty , one is learning 3d aprication , and learn tools for modeling ,, sculpting,,etc.
about this problem,, I do not think, there is so many differende, about each major 3D aprication. I do not believe,, even though I get modo, or 3d max,
I can easy model more complex mesh than blender.
But,, next problem is relation with daz studio.
this problem is more confuse me often.
import mesh which attached many blender modifier effect, to daz studio,, as same as what I had seen in blender is another problem.
the difficullity is most of Blender artist, (not DAZ artists) may not plan to import complex mesh for daz studio often ^^;
then there is not so many tutoriall etc,,, they start and finish work in lbender, or make it not for daz studio, but Unity,, etc.
Thank you all for your time and your input.
I did not want to give you the impression that I wanted an easy fix or a substitute for practice I just did not want to waste my time with a software that might not be able to do what I need it to in Daz. I do look at the galleries but they often give no indication of the rendering engine or whether it will work with Daz.
Knowing that Blender is used by PAs who work with Daz I will keep with it for the time being.
On a side note, does anyone have experience using Substance Painter or Design with Daz? I wanted to find out if they work together before I purchase it.
Thank you.
Kitakoredaz, thank you for your input. I had not seen it before I posted my last comment. I feel the same way you do as I have run into many of the same issues you mentioned. I am going to have to find some work arounds. Also I have found with HardOps that if you lower the Bevel Weight you can keep some of the bevel without creating artifacts. Just my 2 cents.
Blender is an awesome program, especially for the price, the trick it seems for me is learning its limitations as they apply to Daz.
I have a few really cool sculpts that after spending hours, I mean in excess of dozens of hours, trying to adapt them to Daz have found it is really not worth the effort. These were mostly dealing with boolean and extrusion operations which I have since found many Daz people avoid altogether. Some boolean operations are easy enough to cleanup while others just are not, at least for me.
I need to find alternatives to these operands that will still yield the desired results.
Once again thank you all for taking the time to help a stranger. It means more than you know.
Sig.
First bit of advice. Always save incrimentally, always(Like save as project01, project02, project03 etc every time you save. I try to save every ten minuts or so, easy to get in the groove and forget though). Second, stay away from booleans, they are messy, in prettymuch any program I have ever tried them in. Try your best to only model with quads. Triangles and ngons are bad, not only for daz, for a whole lot of render engines. I haven't sculpted in blender at all, so I cannot really comment on that. For sculpting and texturing I use zbrush, which is already a quads workflow in that. All my base modelling I do in blender though when needed. Not sure why extruding would be an issue though, I use that one regularly.
Hi Sigurd
Your question: is ZBrush good for hard surface modeling.
ZBrush 4R6 and before, so so. ZBrush 4R7, current version? Pure happiness for buildings, furniture, jewelry makers, even pro 3D printers. Because Pixologic is so awesome it surprises everyone with ZModeler - a FREE 4R7 update!
You will probably find the new dynamic SubD useful. 4R7 Zmodelers add tons more beveling options and edge control to the hard surface toolbox to existing good-enough 4R6 process.
Creating mech stuff, for me, is like 500% speed from 4R6 to 4R7! I never miss Sketchup after that.
You may wish to know the ease of ZBrush --- Daz Studio workflow.
GoZ comes free with DS and make life easy for ZBrushers. Will send vertex colors, or UV-ed textures including displacement/normal over to DS too, with one click. (btw ZBrush also has Go Blender direct link)
Daz GoZ support is not "comprehensive", for example won't send polygroups over as Daz groups/zones (I wish it does), but the usual OBJ and FBX i/o between the 2 apps are overall stable.
Most top content creating PAs here use ZBrush, which keeps the pipeline well oiled. Something to consider....
Check out ZModeler tutorial and judge it for yourself. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMjnnUF3eJFeGI5qFVeYd7ffnBhvnG76B
Or pick an area of interest by video playlist https://www.youtube.com/user/ZBRUSHatPIXOLOGIC/playlists
Cheers...
Oh and ZBrush Boolean options, too many to mention esp after 4R7.
Retopology, pure joy.
Your question: Substance in Daz... No sign of that. Yet...
Substance most recently announced support of NVidia MDL integration. I don't know what that means for Daz's iRay dev.
I would be running around singing cheering like mad if Daz3D announces 'tada! now we support iRay realtime with Substance!'. But until then... ;)
I would settle for iRay interactive + substance.MDL, whatever that is lol
MDL files can be imported into Shader Mixer, as long as they are in a location set as an MDL content directory. I have not had a chance to look at the use of MDL files exported from Substance Designer 5.5 though.
I plan to dig deeper into DS Shader Mixer, after more understanding on how MDLs get made in Substance Designer, how any "standardized" imported MDLs work in DS.
I do miss realtime Substance workflow in iClone, esp its usefulness in material animation. So nice to see your procedural update in realtime, increase creativity and FUN!
To me fun = creativity = fun = creativity...lol... That's why after Zbrush kind of matcap visual feedback I can't go back to Max/ Blender style modeling.
Since I found MCasual's matanim scripts it has opened up material animation potentials in Daz. But procedural iteration and visual feedback is still an (artistic process) issue. I hope iRay realtime will arrive soon.
Import Substance sbsar -> MDL authoring/editing in DS --> Substance Sbsar output to external, super futureproof game dev friendly?
Anyway for local render animators like myself it would be awesome if it's already possible to take some of my favorite SBsars into Substance Designer and spit out a MDL that DS could use as a new base... Ok looks like another item on my research list...