Poserpro 11 frustration
lindans
Posts: 99
Is there any point in hanging on to Poser any more since we cannot get all the new genesis models into the program. I love Poser but the lack of new content is driving me nuts, V4 is still fabulous but I would like to use the newer models, don't tell me to use Daz Studio I have tried countless times and I have given up every time, it is just so complicated on every front, from the layout to the content management. Poser is so simple to get to grips with. I know this has been hashed out before, but I think i may be coming to the end of my 3D hobby.
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I agree with you about the frustration of not having native support for the Genesis line of characters in Poser... but that ship has sailed. What I think DAZ could do to reclaim the Poser market is come out with a totally new Poser model... not genesis 1/2/3.... but a whole new model for Poser only.... It would probably replace the Smith Micro models and be competition for Dawn in the Poser world. I don't understand why DAZ doesn't want that market.
I have had success at learning DAZ Studio so you might try again... I watched alot of the videos on youtube as I learn that way. But Poser has the morph brush, dynamic cloth, and has not been clogged up with all the smart content and metadata and DAZ connect that has really bogged down Studio for my experience. I hope you find a solution that works for you so you can enjoy your 3D Hobby.
You can get G3 and G3 clothing into Poser11, Lululee has a tutorial(Genesis 3 to Poser 11 without going into Daz Studio) over at Renderosity that explains how. You will also need Dimension3D's Library Manager for Poser and EZskin3 but once those utilities are installed it works. Of course if you want to render in Superfly you will have to fool with the materials on the clothing though EZskin3 takes care of the skin materials.
Yes I also suggested this a few years back.
I'd love new Daz3d Poser native figures because they make the best figures.
I've purchased items for Genesis 3 but it's so time consuming messing about with all the converting of figures and clothing and then material setup that I really lost interest in using them within Poser.
sadly I don't think Daz will make the figures as there doesn't seem to be enough Poser users for Daz to make any money from selling Poser figures
It's not just Genesis. Surely you've noticed that almost none of the props and sets coming out now are Poser-friendly. Today's PA offerings would hit my cart at warp speed, if only they weren't labelled for Daz Studio 4.9 only. The other day I bought a lovely dungeon for my favorite Potions Master, hoping it would be useful since thanks to Library Manager you could import it into Poser even without PCFs. However the lights and materials are all wrong and I've no idea where to even begin to fix it. So far this PA sale is saving me tons of money by giving me nothing new to buy. But on the other hand, it is making me wonder what the heck I am still doing here, other than hanging out in the forums and picking up the occasional "vintage" item that strikes my fancy, of which there are few left I don't already own.
Ye gods, I hope the PC sale when it comes is better than this for us Poserites and Carrara users. Not to mention the Daz Studio folks not on 4.9 who can't use a lot of the new stuff either because it's mostly set up for iRay.
I bought a few recent sets to take into Poser but it was a nightmare as many of the items used Daz Studio instancing so I had repopulate the scene and then sort out the materials, blahh, it's quicker to build my own stuff but I just don't have much free time anymore, I hardly buy anything here anymore because I can't buy new items that work in Poser
I've found the one can ususally bring a Studio scene or scene subset into Poser using D3D's DSON Loader Script, proivided the relevant Studio Content Directories have been added to the PoserLlibrary. Individual items can then be saved to the Poser Library if desired. Of course, materials will likely need to be adjusted, and I've occasionally seen models load with reversed normals, which for me is only an issue in Preview...
Here's what it looks like in Poser 11's preview window when I import the scene using Library Manager.
And this is how it renders. The Firefly one is way off while Superfly looks only slightly better. These are the 3Delight versions. I shudder to think how screwy the iRay must be.
It is not "the end." Where there is a will, there is a way. As others have shown, it is possible to use DAZ Gen3 figures in Poser. And, with some finessing, it's possible to use other products, as long as one is willing to work with the Material Room and or learn enough of the free DS pack to convert/export what is needed to acceptable formats.
IMO, Poser is a more versatile and more powerful package than DS. The problem for users who grew up with Poser with DAZ/others furiously supporting cross-platform figures and products is that "the war" has begun. Smith Micro was never really an organized "producer" of quality Poser Content and most high-end Poser content was provided solely third-party, with SM not engaging producers to secure a solid stable of content providers. DAZ took its position in the relatively small marketplace and used quality guerrilla-marketing to leverage its position so that it could be independent of third-party programs. This is as it should be for any business. Unfortunately, in any product conflict, there are... victims.
However, Poser is a powerful program. Straight from the "box" you have a highly effective toolset. (I "lurk" a bit and notice a lot of criticisms of Poser that largely involve people who don't know how to use it. I'm not speaking of your post! Just people complaining about things that they say Poser can't do... yet the button for that function is sitting right in front of them... :) ) Poser 11 Pro has so many tools focused on content creation/manipulation that, as long as you can get a suitable file format, you can "deal with" a huge assortment of issues involving non-standard content. With various free programs out there that can convert all sorts of filetypes and scripts for them and Poser (python), if you can see it in "3D" you can probably get it into Poser in some form. (Certain things like true particle effects/emitters, a "quality" hair/fiber creation tool, etc, are still lacking, somewhat. But, the rest is there.)
Most longtime Poser users didn't learn how to use the program through reading the manual or watching Youtube vids. They learned how to use it because they really wanted to do something with it and banged away at it with a hammer until, finally, they figured it out. Along the way, they became a much more knowledgeable Poser user. Some even became content producers, churned out freebies by the boatload, saved people on various forums by giving them answers to obscure questions, etc..
Where there is a will, there is a way. You CAN do it, whatever it is that you want to do. If you want Gen 3 in your Poser, you can make it happen. People have posted tools and knowledge in this thread and there is a clear path. You do not have to be a "victim" in this war - You can be a survivor of it. :)
PS - What has always been a problem between DS and Poser are their various material sets. However, out of the box, Poser's material room is extremely powerful. There won't be anything that can be done in DS with materials that you can't "make happen" in Poser's Mat Room and/or in Firefly/Superfly or, if you prefer, Reality (paid exporter for LuxRender). Integrate the free DS package into your workflow, if necessary, and don't forget about free tools out there, like Blender, UVMapper, Wings3D, GIMP, etc, that can broaden your experience and use of Poser.
First off thank you for your thorough explanation and your statements in favor of Poser. I have been a Poser user since Poser 4. I too, cannot work in DS. I have tried...a number of times. And not having a NVidia card and DS dependence of creating quality renders using IRAY just doesn't work for me. I love your comment about hammering it out back in the day. But Poser's toolset made that possible.
I rarely purchase from Daz anymore as they have gone their own way. That's business and their decision. They only thing I really do buy from Daz anymore is props because I can use the material room to adjust things to the way I like them. As for vendors not supporting Poser...an above statement could be very true...that they simply do not own Poser as you have to pay for it and DS is free, so I'm not going to blame the vendors here.
Also the merry-go-round of creating more chartacters and new clothing, improving characters (for example what version of Victoria is the latest, 7?) I just can't afford the "Always New and Always Now more Awesome!" products that keep trending at Daz.
I just purchased Poser Pro 11 just a couple of days ago and am excited to delve into it. I will always be a Poser content creator...but not here. You'll be able find me under this user name in a place I cannot link too.
Anyhow that's my 2 cents worth.
I think it's really up to Smith Micro to do something, and quickly, to keep their customer base... If Poser dies out, it's not going to affect Daz. I think SM should figure out a way to make the Genesis characters work easily, just like they did with Daz's earlier generations, and supply their own IRay fix. It shouldn't be up to third parties and individual users to have to figure this out. I started using Poser at Poser 3, before there was even much you could do with it and MUCH prefer using it over DS, but I'm learning how to use DS now because, as much as I hate it, it's more convenient to learn it than having to alter everything I buy. I'm not really that techie, more of an artist, actually more comfortable with Photoshop than either program, but Poser is much more user friendly to me.
Smith Micro NEEDS to do something. Most of the top vendors have moved over to DS, even many die-hard Poser ones, and many long time Poser users like myself are preferring the headache of DS than an even bigger headache having to figure out how to make content usable in Poser. It shouldn't be up to users to figure it out. If they want to keep Poser alive, they have to figure out a way to make Daz content work easily and seamlessly.
At Siggraph this year, I visited their booth, and there were all new people (Chuck wasn't there when I stopped by.) Everyone was sooo friendly and wonderful people and I felt so bad because I had already started to try to learn DS. I met the guy who said he was developing a new character for Poser. He was a fairly young guy who seemed to know very little about the history of Poser/Daz and was excited about creating this new character. But OK, that's ONE character. Even if it's brilliant, how is this one character going to compete with the slew of characters coming out of Daz? And who is going to develop content for it, except, I suppose Hivewire and a few Rendo PAs who haven't transitioned to DS. I know they may feel some animosity towards Daz, but if they want to keep customers or get new ones, they have to make it simple to use Daz content and probably provide a free trial period so new people who are hesitant to spend the money could try it out first. And this would impact Daz in a positive way too, if now all the Poser users could comfortably buy their products. I'm wondering if SM is completely aware of what is going on or if they've just already decided that they have no interest in making it easy to use Daz content. If that is the case, they are just shooting themselves in the foot....
Oh, not only that, Apple tech support told me that if I upgrade to a newer OS, DSON won't work in Poser. I'm not sure if this is a Poser issue or a Daz issue...
I think I still have Chuck Taylor's email. I may try to contact him (assuming he's still there, I haven't really kept up since Siggraph) and find out what's going on, because I would really hate to see Poser die out, which could potentially happen if Poser users continue to move to DS to use Daz content and people new to 3D get a free program with DS where they can buy a plethora of great content and have no need for or even knowledge of Poser.
I was upset with Daz at the beginning when Genesis first came out about their making it not compatible with Poser since at the time, Poser was the predominant software, and I left the store for several years because there was little new to buy. But when all the PAs moved over and were creating solely for Genesis 3 even on other sites, I just had to go with the flow and suck it up. Daz made a big decision making Genesis not compatible with Poser when they released it before even creating DSON but, in the end, it worked for them, because of the great content here. Now I'm starting to get upset with Smith Micro... If third parties and vendors can figure out fixes, surely they would have the know-how or means to hire someone to do it and more seamlessly.
I really wish the two companies could work together; it would be beneficial to both. Daz doesn't make money from DS, just the content and they'd make additional sales from Poser users. I can understand why PAs don't want to make two or three versions of everything, but if the top tech people from both companies could get together, I bet they could come up with a solution to make Poser work with Daz products and that would be beneficial to everyone....
Sorry for the long post. Just something that has been bothering me for ages! :)