Need Advice on Upgrading my Computer

RedHeadLilith

Hello everyone !
I been thinking lately to upgrade my computer to fit for 3d creations and renders .
I want to be able to render faster and in the same time to still be able to work on my computer, like in Photoshop and browse the web without DAZ will eat all my memory .

here are some photos of the computer Information I have at the moment :

I was offered to add to my computer the fallowing :

Intel Ivy Bridge Core i7 3770K Socket 1155 8MB 3.5Ghz Tray

Scythe MUGEN 3 REV B

MSI Z77A-G43 Sata3 Usb3 VGA/DVI/HDMI

Seagate 1TB, 3.5", SATA3, Barracuda 7200.14

Gigabyte GTX660TI 2GB GDDR5 WINFORCE 3 RETAIL

Do You think with this upgrade from what I have now I will see any difference in render time and performance ?
Do I really need this Graphic Card? if Daz Studio Render in 3d light why do I need a strong graphic card at all ?
Is there a way for me to work better with the system I already have now ? if so how ?
Would love to hear some advice and feedback , thanks !

Artini

Your Intel Core i5-2400 Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.40 GHz) has 4 cores and 4 threads
http://ark.intel.com/products/52207
Intel Core i7-3770K Processor (8M Cache, up to 3.90 GHz) has also 4 cores but 8 threads and larger cache
http://ark.intel.com/products/65523
Since the Daz Studio and Bryce can use all available threads on the processor
you will observe shorter rendering times with the new processor.
If you are not using rendering engines that use graphics processor like Reality, Lux or Octane,
then your current graphics card is just fine for Daz programs and Photoshop.

DWG

The i7 should handily outperform your current i5, but that alone won't stop Studio eating every CPU cycle it can grab, the only way I know to do that is to partition some of the processing power and set things up so one thread is not used by Studio (which I forget how to do offhand), the cost of that is Studio only being able to access 87.5% of available CPU power (on an 8-thread i7).

I presume the fan and motherboard are matched to the i7, but it might be worth looking into whether you can get an i7 to go with your current motherboard and save the expense of replacing that.

The 1TB hard drive won't do anything for your render times, I'd only consider it if you are running out of disk space.

The graphics card only makes sense if you are a serious gamer or if you have software able to use it for rendering, which Studio doesn't. It may make posing slightly smoother, but I certainly wouldn't pay £200+ (based on a quick google) just for that. It does raise questions as to whether whoever made the recommendations actually knows much about 3D rendering.

What's apparently absent from your list is memory. Rendering needs two things, CPU and RAM, if your renders are regularly consuming all of your RAM and needing textures to be paged into and off the hard drive, then throwing a much more powerful CPU at the problem won't actually reach its theoretical maximum processing power because the memory issues will be holding it back. How much memory you can actually use depends on your motherboard and your operating system.

RedHeadLilith

If you are not using rendering engines that use graphics processor like Reality, Lux or Octane,
then your current graphics card is just fine for Daz programs and Photoshop.

so If I will want to use other programs like for example studio Max , blender , Maya or z brush do I need than to get also the graphic card?

if your renders are regularly consuming all of your RAM and needing textures to be paged into and off the hard drive, then throwing a much more powerful CPU at the problem won't actually reach its theoretical maximum processing power because the memory issues will be holding it back. How much memory you can actually use depends on your motherboard and your operating system.

Thanks for the respond . So if that the case I need to get a better motherboard that the one was offered? and what kind of operating system do I need? do you mean something other than windows 8?

I'm a little bit confused here - If my computer can use only up to 4 Ram even that it say I have 64 bit operating system what is the point in upgrading to core 7 from I core 5 ? - if that the case all I really need according to what you said only to upgrade my mother board and to make sure it goes with my Intel core i 5 ?

In what kind of operating system can you use more than 4 RAM if not in the 64 bit I have ?

I know it's probably really beginner questions but I want to understand all this things once and for all before I jump and buy stuff that will end up not to be what I needed.

Thank you for your kind help.

DWG

So if that the case I need to get a better motherboard that the one was offered? and what kind of operating system do I need? do you mean something other than windows 8?

Win 8 64 will definitely handle all the RAM you can throw at it, IIRC its limit is 128GB for the basic version and 512GB for Pro. WRT motherboards, your existing motherboard may be able to take more than 8MB, for instance I just ran the scanner utility ( http://www.crucial.com/uk/systemscanner/ ) available at the Crucial website, which informs me my existing motherboard can handle up to 24GB of RAM.

RedHeadLilith

amm but if it say I have 64 bit with windows 8 at the moment than why his limit is only 4 out of 8 ? - in other words what do I need to change in my system so that will use more than the 4 limit ?

Alpha Channel

I think you've got yourself a little confused regarding the RAM. The motherboard is a pretty solid choice (though I have a personal preference for Asus) the majority of motherboards have four RAM slots (only the socket 2011 motherboards have more - four or eight depending upon model) and in these slots you can insert up to 32GB (socket 2011 allows 64GB-96GB) with your 64bit OS. The only slight kicker here is that the software you run must also be 64bit otherwise it won't use it all, the software that you have mentioned though - 3DS Max, Maya and Zbrush (probably) all have 64bit versions and have done so for a while (as does Daz Studio) and will use as much as they need.

The CPU upgrade will only really pay dividends if you overclock it and it is what the K series are all about (hence why there's none K affixed CPUs out on the market and why K series have a slight price premium) as these chips are marketed at those of us who like to squeeze a little (or a lot) more performance out of the hardware you buy.

The GPU may be a tad overkill if you're not going to be using CUDA rendering or gaming, your 550 should work just fine. As far as the hard drive goes you might be better off keeping the hard drive that you have and investing in a 120GB SSD for the operating system and some key applications instead while installing the rest on the existing hard drive as this will see a much more noticeable performance jump (if you go down this route don't get an OCZ drive, I seen more complaints about their drives dying than any other brand).

Artini

In Blender you can use Cycles as a rendering engine and the latest version of Blender 2.64a support new Nvidia graphics cards,
like the one you listed: Gigabyte GTX660TI 2GB GDDR5 WINFORCE 3 RETAIL
I have made a rendering tests on the computer with the Nvidia GTX670 graphics card and when I enabled GPU in Cycles in Blender
the rendering times were about 5 times shorter than using only CPU for rendering.

If you are sure that you have 64-bit version of Windows 8Professional, then it should be no problem using all of your 8GB ram.
Of course you need to run the 64-bit version of the software (like Blender, Daz Studio) to access all ram available in your computer.

RedHeadLilith

Alpha Channel said:

I think you've got yourself a little confused regarding the RAM. The motherboard is a pretty solid choice (though I have a personal preference for Asus) the majority of motherboards have four RAM slots (only the socket 2011 motherboards have more - four or eight depending upon model) and in these slots you can insert up to 32GB (socket 2011 allows 64GB-96GB) with your 64bit OS. The only slight kicker here is that the software you run must also be 64bit otherwise it won't use it all, the software that you have mentioned though - 3DS Max, Maya and Zbrush (probably) all have 64bit versions and have done so for a while (as does Daz Studio) and will use as much as they need.

The CPU upgrade will only really pay dividends if you overclock it and it is what the K series are all about (hence why there's none K affixed CPUs out on the market and why K series have a slight price premium) as these chips are marketed at those of us who like to squeeze a little (or a lot) more performance out of the hardware you buy.

The GPU may be a tad overkill if you're not going to be using CUDA rendering or gaming, your 550 should work just fine. As far as the hard drive goes you might be better off keeping the hard drive that you have and investing in a 120GB SSD for the operating system and some key applications instead while installing the rest on the existing hard drive as this will see a much more noticeable performance jump (if you go down this route don't get an OCZ drive, I seen more complaints about their drives dying than any other brand).

ok wow thank you so much that really organized my understanding about all of this :)

you really been a great help to me !

one last question for the socket 2011 motherboards and i core 7 do I need a better power supply ? I have :

A.PFC 550W FAN12 Ci-Power CWT

and do i also need a cooler ? I have at the moment Cold Bit 12CM - do I need a better one ? or something totally different?

Alpha Channel

Happy to help :) .

I'd probably replace both to be on the safe side (I've never heard of either one) as the Ivy Bridge CPU range runs hotter than your Sandy Bridge based 2400 thanks to Intel skimping on the thermal paste that sits under the aluminium shield, the Scythe MUGEN 3 REV B that you posted should be sufficient to cool it.

The PSU really should be a known and well respected brand because if the PSU goes belly up it has the potential to take out your entire system.

I personally use OCZ (a 700W ModXtream modular PSU powering my six core 2011 i7 desktop) and Antec (my media centre, also modular) but there are others such as Seasonic, Corsair, Coolermaster and BeQuiet all of which are highly regarded and stable. Anything around 500W to 700W will give you a nice safe margin for future expansion plus PSU's operate at their most efficient with a 50-60% load.

RedHeadLilith

Artini said:

In Blender you can use Cycles as a rendering engine and the latest version of Blender 2.64a support new Nvidia graphics cards,
like the one you listed: Gigabyte GTX660TI 2GB GDDR5 WINFORCE 3 RETAIL
I have made a rendering tests on the computer with the Nvidia GTX670 graphics card and when I enabled GPU in Cycles in Blender
the rendering times were about 5 times shorter than using only CPU for rendering.

If you are sure that you have 64-bit version of Windows 8Professional, then it should be no problem using all of your 8GB ram.
Of course you need to run the 64-bit version of the software (like Blender, Daz Studio) to access all ram available in your computer.

thank you for the comment - good to know that - I think this is the part I will save my money on and stay with the Card I have now- I will probably upgrade it in some point - but with graphic card i'ts probably the last think you will want to upgrade due to the fact a new better one comes out every few months - and mine was bought only one year ago or or so .

Happy to help .

I’d probably replace both to be on the safe side (I’ve never heard of either one) as the Ivy Bridge CPU range runs hotter than your Sandy Bridge based 2400 thanks to Intel skimping on the thermal paste that sits under the aluminium shield, the Scythe MUGEN 3 REV B that you posted should be sufficient to cool it.

The PSU really should be a known and well respected brand because if the PSU goes belly up it has the potential to take out your entire system.

I personally use OCZ (a 700W ModXtream modular PSU powering my six core 2011 i7 desktop) and Antec (my media centre, also modular) but there are others such as Seasonic, Corsair, Coolermaster and BeQuiet all of which are highly regarded and stable. Anything around 500W to 700W will give you a nice safe margin for future expansion plus PSU’s operate at their most efficient with a 50-60% load.

thank you for all your help - hugs :)

RedHeadLilith

Ok so one last update

this is what I build for myself so far :

Intel Core i7-3930k 3.20GHz Box

motherboard :
Asus
P9X79 LE
2011
(Chipset) Intel® X79
ATX
(CPU) Intel® Socket 2011 for 2nd Generation Core™ i7 Processors
Supports Intel® Turbo Boost Technology 2.0
(Memory)8 x DIMM, Max. 64GB, DDR3 2400(O.C.)/2133(O.C.)/1866/1600/1333/1066 MHz Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory
Quad Channel Memory Architecture
Supports Intel® Extreme Memory Profile (XMP)
* Hyper DIMM support is subject to the physical characteristics of individual CPUs.

Hard drive : Intel 330 120GB SSDSC2CT120A3K5 SSD

Power : Seasonic SS-600ET ATX 600W

Scythe "KATANA 4"CPU Cooler

Thermaltake 230mm Blue LED Silent Fan - do you think I need it ? - is that something you can buy the cheapest ? or should I invest more money on the Fan ?

Coon Ra

I'd say 3770k might give you at least 22-33% performance boost. And some say it is nicely overclockable to have up to 130-150% of initial 3770k preformance.

Alpha Channel

The fan is fine as the noise generated is something entirely personal, my desktop is still packing the built in fans that the case came with and it's acceptably quiet enough even after five or six years, certainly quieter than my media centre, when that;s on I can't hear my desktop fans (all six of them).

Can't complain with the rest of the system, almost exactly the same as mine :) the only difference is that I have a P9X79 Pro. Intel SSD's have a good reputation for reliability married with decent speed so no complaints there and Seasonic PSU's have well earned praise both are a safe bet.

If you want to go down the 2011 socket-esk route it might be wise to hold on for a tad as Intel are readying the successor to the 2011 platform. Most here will no doubt direct you to the 1155 platform, the Ivybridge CPU while running hotter than its equivalent Sandybridge breathen is on average 20% "faster" (does more work per clock cycle i.e. Mhz) and if you're not working professionally then the 3930K (the sweet spot of the 2011 platform) may be a tad overkill. Otherwise that there is the basis for a seriously buttock prodding system.

Speaking as someone who owns a 3930K I have to admit right now I'm rather thankful for the power I have (currently rendering an animation for a freelance project) though I could have done with more than the 16GB that I've got on the last freelance work I did... working on A0 posters at 300DPI made my new system chug a bit toward the end.

RedHeadLilith

Coon Ra said:

I'd say 3770k might give you at least 22-33% performance boost. And some say it is nicely overclockable to have up to 130-150% of initial 3770k preformance.

from what I saw in the Intel Website the i Core 3770k dose not support the Socket 2011

this Is why I choose the Intel Core i7-3930k - there is also a big difference in the price between the 3770k and 3930k maybe it's because only the 3930k support the Socket 2011 mother board

RedHeadLilith

Alpha Channel said:

If you want to go down the 2011 socket-esk route it might be wise to hold on for a tad as Intel are readying the successor to the 2011 platform..

amm.... so you think the prices are going to go down on the 2011 socket soon? worth waiting ? do you know when will this happen ?

Alpha Channel

Just had a quick look see and apparently, according to various leaks, looks like it's been delayed to the second half of 2013 so prices for the 3930k haven't moved and I would suspect won't for a while yet. By all accounts the delay may mean that it may overlap the mainstream Haswell chips which may outperform the Ivybridge-E platform which could be a bit of an issue. I'd say that if you wait you'd never upgrade a PC again :) as there's always something better just around the corner (I'm looking forward to the first use of carbon nanotubes/graphene in a CPU).

So it is a case of either waiting, after all the system that you currently have isn't exactly a slouch though after having a closer look you are using the base chipset for Sandy/Ivybridge which doesn't help matters as it misses out on a few features and performance. Right now I'd go Ivybridge as you could get CPU, motherboard and the SSD for the cost of the 3930k alone then if the Haswell platform isn't all it is cut out to be and Ivybridge-E's successor looks like its going to still use the 2011 socket (which is anyone's guess) then you ebay the guts of your system to pay for an upgrade. Ivybridge won't disappoint in out and out performance.

As for the whole RAM usability thing (sorry just saw your post above) it's a case of having a look in the motherboards BIOS so see if it is registering the full amount, the next step is to enable memory remap, as far as I can tell anyway, I'll admit that I've never had this kind of issue myself having built various machines with 8GB and 16GB without a hiccup.

DWG

Alpha Channel said:

the majority of motherboards have four RAM slots (only the socket 2011 motherboards have more - four or eight depending upon model)

Just to be different, mine has 6 ;)

Alpha Channel

Typical isn't it? Awkward swines :) I knew 1366 had six but I've never seen a 2011 with six As far I knew 2011 only ever came with four, eight or twelve (that last one totalling a potential 96GB and an asking price of £560/$894) but not six. You live and learn.

DWG

Alpha Channel said:

Typical isn't it? Awkward swines :) I knew 1366 had six but I've never seen a 2011 with six As far I knew 2011 only ever came with four, eight or twelve (that last one totalling a potential 96GB and an asking price of £560/$894) but not six. You live and learn.

Slight confusion, mine is a 1366 - I was talking i7 motherboards in general. This is why my system currently has 6GB, can expand to 24GB, but is limited to 16GB by Vista Home Premium.

Alpha Channel

Well I missed that motherboard makers had upgraded the few socket 775 mobo left on the market with DDR3 controllers (at a discussion on another site) so I thought that I had missed one, it appears not :) (phew thought I had slipped up again :D ).

StratDragon

that board supports 32GB RAM
get as much RAM as you can at the same time from the same vendor when you get this device.
8 GB of RAM is no longer a lot of RAM especially when you render and especially since RAM is dirt cheap right now.