DS breaking my converted hair

JQP

This is becoming a matter of routine. I convert hair to G3F the hard way (to keep morphs intact), i.e., some combination of converting it to a prop, using transfer utility to move morphs from original hair to new prop, converting prop to figure, then using transfer utility again to convert hair to new figure. It looks fine, I save it to the library, save a scene with the hair in it. Then I load the scene, and instead of the hair I converted, I get a big grey blob of blocks, like all I'm getting is the bounding box. It's a persistent error, closing DS and loading the scene doesn't fix it, and I find that if I try to load the converted hair I saved to the library, it's now broken as well. This happens a LOT. Anyone else have this happen, or know how to stop it?

JQP

Actually, scratch the last part, I can still load it from the library. But I find that if I have this issue with a hair, delete it load in a new copy, and save the scene, the problem recurs the next time I load the scene.

Richard Haseltine

AutoFit preserves morphs - but not bones, which I suspect is your issue.

It shouldn't be necessary, but try using File>Save as>Suport Assets>Figure prop Asset instead of just saving a scene (assuming the latter is what you are now doing).

JQP

I'm not using autofit, I'm using the "by hand" method, so I can put the morphs back in (if you know a way to do this after auto-fit loses them, I'm all ears). But yes, the process does delete the bones, but then AFAIK a new skeleton is created when I use convert prop to figure on the hair. As far as which format I'm saving in, I always save converted hair to my content library (two copies: one prop asset, one wearable preset), apart from whether or not I save it in a scene. The issue is weird because, once it crops up, I can replace the problem hair with a fresh copy (the converted hair saved as prop asset or wearable) from the library, save the scene, and the problem recurs when I reload the scene. Which makes me think the problem is occurring in the converted hair as stored in the data folder, not the scene file, per se. If that makes any sense.

Thomas Windar

The grey blocks mean that for some reason you are trying to load a figure in that lacks its geometry files... Odd.

That said, you are doing a really weird thing. Why do you convert the hair to a prop? Auto-fit in most cases keeps the morphs so they can be used normally. You are taking an extra step that is not needed.

You can also just load the hair and position it manually and parent it to the G3F head.

I guess my question here to be able to help would be - What are you trying to achieve here?

jestmart

Auto-fit preserves the morphs but does move where you will find them.

Richard Haseltine

Yes, I understood that you werte not using AutoFit  -I was saying that if you did it would still preserve the morphs (but that some things that look like morphs are actually controllers fr bones, which might be why you think otherwise).

So, you save as an asset then as a wearables preset? Is the content directory you save to on a drive that is not permanently mounted (such as an external drive)? Are you sure you don't have nested content directories - one inside another?

JQP

K, first to answer Thomas:

I convert to a prop so I can use the transfer utility to copy the morphs from the original hair, to the prop hair, and have them located in the root node (as hair props almost always have only a root node). This way, when I use the transfer utility to convert the hair to G3F, the morphs are preserved.

Parenting doesn't work well with scaling, in my experience. I prefer to keep my scaling options open, as I tend to like to tweak scales. Also, if the hair hasn't actually been converted to fit the target figure, it doesn't fit as well, putting higher load on smoothing modifiers, which slows DS down. And finally, I'm particular about how I organize scenes (I optimize for speed), and hate digging through the hierarchy for parented objects. The only time I resort to parenting is with special problematic cases, like some ponytail hair. With conforming figure hair, I can put them wherever I like in the hierarchy, and they still fit the target properly.

I have several reasons for doing hair conversions the hard way:

1. Prop hairs, which auto-fit didn't work with, last time I checked (if there's some way to get AF to work with prop hairs, I'd love to know).
2. Hairs with morphs that auto-fit loses. In my experience, a lot of pre-Genesis 1 hairs fall into this category. I happen to have a lot of pre-G1 hairs that I like (more than a lot of the post-G1 hairs that I have, actually).
3. Hairs that consistently crash DS during the auto-fit process. It's not common, but it does happen. I've yet to find a single hair that gives me the same problem when converting the hard way.
4. I sometimes (usually, actually) get better results from hair converted the hard way. E.g., they bend slightly better. This usually isn't enough of a benefit to justify doing every hair the hard way, but I've gotten into the habit of doing hard conversions anyway, so...

All of that said, you have a point, I've probably gotten too much in the habit of hard conversions, and should swing back the other way and start trying auto-fit again. On the other hand, what really got me into the habit was the, oh, 2% (guesstimate) chance of crashing DS using auto-fit on hairs. I tend to be sitting on a big scene when I need a hair converted, and anything I can do to avoid a crash under these circumstances is a good thing; even if I remembered to save the scene first (sometimes I don't want to save, because I've got too much stuff in the scene and saving will take too long, and I don't want to pare it down first because that takes time, too), waiting for a heavy scene to load (and optimize the images) is a PITA.

JQP

Yes, I save as both prop asset, and as a wearable. Usually in that order, and always to a folder inside the folder of the original product. So, if it's Long Story Hair, I save the asset & wearable in Long Story Hair>G3F. No, I don't have a nested content directory, at least not as far as I know. I can't speak for any possible glitches in DS' reading of same, though (as in, maybe DS thinks I have nested directories). My content directory is on an internal drive (E), and has been for years (experience has taught me to put it where it is, and leave it).

Yeah, there seems to be a disconnect between my experience of auto-fit, and you guys'. In my experience, it's far from the 1:1, "morphs are preserved" process you guys are describing. Maybe I'm just getting senile, but I could swear there's a sort of "break point" in when a product was produced, and if a hair is older than that, you're more likely to lose the morphs with auto-fit, than to retain them. I kind of got the impression that after a certain date, content creators figure out how to make hair so that this doesn't happen, but that was just my guess.

Now I'm going to have to go back and try to autofit a few old hairs, just to make sure I'm not further into senility than I thought. Edit: these are pretty much always hairs with the morphs in the neck bone.

JQP

Could it be conflicts with previous conversions? I've converted more than one hair more than once, as my workflow changed. Also, I used to save stuff like this (conversions, modified content, etc.) in my Save folder, where I save scenes (different folder on E drive), until I realized that didn't make much sense, and started saving it close to the original content instead.

JQP

Yeah, I just converted 5 V4 hairs with auto-fit. One came through with morphs intact, the other four did not. I set the parameters tab to "all" and looked all the way down the hierarchy from the root to the head bone, nada.

Which is another reason to just do it the hard way from the start, with these old hairs: AF so seldom works, I'm wasting my time checking to see if it does, when I could just be converting by hand and halfway done already (I've gotten pretty quick with the hard way).

jestmart

Could you name the hair you are loosing the morphs on?

Jimbow

In the Transfer Uitility, under General Options > Weight Maps, have you tried ticking Merge Heirarchies to on?