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Animation Club for Carrara , Week #2 - Spooky Hollow. Ready To watch..

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  • MarkIsSleepyMarkIsSleepy Posts: 1,496
    3DAGE said:

    Hi Dart :)

    Yes, you can keep it,.  it's free to anyone who can download it and use it in Carrara. :)

    Maybe it can be re-cycled and used it in another project,. the same applies to everything else,.... from me, at least (can't speak for other modelers)

    I think that if we're going to have an animation club,. it needs to have some assets which can be dropped into scenes, tables, chairs, potion cupboards, jars, etc..

    it's also an encouragement to participate ,.  join in ,get free stuff,. .. or maybe not,... maybe just get free stuf for carrara, which is fine too.

    (just thinking out loud here)...

    I dont know if it's possible to set up a  club "account" on something like Share CG where we could upload  and share stuff, ..rather than having links in different project threads

    so we could have a central repository for scenes and assets.

    To clarify,   I'm saying,.  let's create a central storage area, to keep all previous scenes and models available to any carrara users,

    if that's possible, and everyone agree's.

    if not,.  i'm ok with the way things are.  

    I'm glad you like ,. :)

    I am on board with that. Anything I contribute to these forum projects is free for any use to anyone who wants them. laugh

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551
    mmoir said:

     Hey 3dage,   Having a central repository for Assets is a great idea.

      I know that with google docs you could have the links to all the models in one place and with different categories it could be very helpful.   Anyone can edit the main google docs page and add links to their models which are actually hosted on the site of their choice.  I set up a page like this for the "Bang" movie , it worked not bad but need a little more orginization on my part. .  The ShareCg may be an option but I don't know much about their website.

     Maybe for the next Animation club movie we can do something or have something ready.

    3DAGE said:
     

    I think that if we're going to have an animation club,. it needs to have some assets which can be dropped into scenes, tables, chairs, potion cupboards, jars, etc..

    it's also an encouragement to participate ,.  join in ,get free stuff,. .. or maybe not,... maybe just get free stuf for carrara, which is fine too.

    (just thinking out loud here)...

    I dont know if it's possible to set up a  club "account" on something like Share CG where we could upload  and share stuff, ..rather than having links in different project threads

    so we could have a central repository for scenes and assets.

    To clarify,   I'm saying,.  let's create a central storage area, to keep all previous scenes and models available to any carrara users,

    if that's possible, and everyone agree's.

    if not,.  i'm ok with the way things are.  

     

    I'm glad you like ,. :)

     

     

     

    Fantastic idea, 3DAGE! and excellent support suggestion, Mike. I like the idea of a central depository thing - and also agree that having content like this (even though anyone would also have access) would be excellent incentive to join in... less worry about this or that.

    Speaking of which, I am planning on including a bit of advertisement of the club at the end of the movie, if that's okay, which will include mention that the links to the fun are included in the description - so then I'll make a consolidation post for the <<< Carrara Information Manual >>> which leads to general club conversation and each of the completed, current, and known future project threads as they become available.

    Of course that consolidation post will be editable by any of us - I'd just get it started and add the links around the place.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551
    MDO2010 said:
    3DAGE said:

    Hi Dart :)

    Yes, you can keep it,.  it's free to anyone who can download it and use it in Carrara. :)

    Maybe it can be re-cycled and used it in another project,. the same applies to everything else,.... from me, at least (can't speak for other modelers)

    I think that if we're going to have an animation club,. it needs to have some assets which can be dropped into scenes, tables, chairs, potion cupboards, jars, etc..

    it's also an encouragement to participate ,.  join in ,get free stuff,. .. or maybe not,... maybe just get free stuf for carrara, which is fine too.

    (just thinking out loud here)...

    I dont know if it's possible to set up a  club "account" on something like Share CG where we could upload  and share stuff, ..rather than having links in different project threads

    so we could have a central repository for scenes and assets.

    To clarify,   I'm saying,.  let's create a central storage area, to keep all previous scenes and models available to any carrara users,

    if that's possible, and everyone agree's.

    if not,.  i'm ok with the way things are.  

    I'm glad you like ,. :)

    I am on board with that. Anything I contribute to these forum projects is free for any use to anyone who wants them. laugh

    Fantastic, Mark! I'm loving all of the stuff you've been contributing already!!! Thanks!

    FifthElement, diomede, wgdjohn, Stezza, Mike, others, do you all mind if we were to include your submissions to a depository for public download?

  • StezzaStezza Posts: 8,051

    do with the broomstick what you please .. ;-)

     

    Dartanbeck said:
    MDO2010 said:
    3DAGE said:

    Hi Dart :)

    Yes, you can keep it,.  it's free to anyone who can download it and use it in Carrara. :)

    Maybe it can be re-cycled and used it in another project,. the same applies to everything else,.... from me, at least (can't speak for other modelers)

    I think that if we're going to have an animation club,. it needs to have some assets which can be dropped into scenes, tables, chairs, potion cupboards, jars, etc..

    it's also an encouragement to participate ,.  join in ,get free stuff,. .. or maybe not,... maybe just get free stuf for carrara, which is fine too.

    (just thinking out loud here)...

    I dont know if it's possible to set up a  club "account" on something like Share CG where we could upload  and share stuff, ..rather than having links in different project threads

    so we could have a central repository for scenes and assets.

    To clarify,   I'm saying,.  let's create a central storage area, to keep all previous scenes and models available to any carrara users,

    if that's possible, and everyone agree's.

    if not,.  i'm ok with the way things are.  

    I'm glad you like ,. :)

    I am on board with that. Anything I contribute to these forum projects is free for any use to anyone who wants them. laugh

    Fantastic, Mark! I'm loving all of the stuff you've been contributing already!!! Thanks!

    FifthElement, diomede, wgdjohn, Stezza, Mike, others, do you all mind if we were to include your submissions to a depository for public download?

     

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551
    Stezza said:

    do with the broomstick what you please .. ;-)

     

    Dartanbeck said:
    MDO2010 said:
    3DAGE said:

    Hi Dart :)

    Yes, you can keep it,.  it's free to anyone who can download it and use it in Carrara. :)

    Maybe it can be re-cycled and used it in another project,. the same applies to everything else,.... from me, at least (can't speak for other modelers)

    I think that if we're going to have an animation club,. it needs to have some assets which can be dropped into scenes, tables, chairs, potion cupboards, jars, etc..

    it's also an encouragement to participate ,.  join in ,get free stuff,. .. or maybe not,... maybe just get free stuf for carrara, which is fine too.

    (just thinking out loud here)...

    I dont know if it's possible to set up a  club "account" on something like Share CG where we could upload  and share stuff, ..rather than having links in different project threads

    so we could have a central repository for scenes and assets.

    To clarify,   I'm saying,.  let's create a central storage area, to keep all previous scenes and models available to any carrara users,

    if that's possible, and everyone agree's.

    if not,.  i'm ok with the way things are.  

    I'm glad you like ,. :)

    I am on board with that. Anything I contribute to these forum projects is free for any use to anyone who wants them. laugh

    Fantastic, Mark! I'm loving all of the stuff you've been contributing already!!! Thanks!

    FifthElement, diomede, wgdjohn, Stezza, Mike, others, do you all mind if we were to include your submissions to a depository for public download?

     

    Sweet! Thanks Stezza!

    By the way... killer freaking broomstick!!! 

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    more fuel for the fire,.

    Scene: External : Night. .. or,. External Prop. (164 kb)

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7907045/cottage.car

    cottage_full.jpg
    800 x 600 - 20K
    cottage.jpg
    800 x 600 - 31K
    cottage1.jpg
    800 x 600 - 26K
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 15,168
    MDO2010 said:
    3DAGE said:

    Hi Dart :)

    Yes, you can keep it,.  it's free to anyone who can download it and use it in Carrara. :)

    Maybe it can be re-cycled and used it in another project,. the same applies to everything else,.... from me, at least (can't speak for other modelers)

    I think that if we're going to have an animation club,. it needs to have some assets which can be dropped into scenes, tables, chairs, potion cupboards, jars, etc..

    it's also an encouragement to participate ,.  join in ,get free stuff,. .. or maybe not,... maybe just get free stuf for carrara, which is fine too.

    (just thinking out loud here)...

    I dont know if it's possible to set up a  club "account" on something like Share CG where we could upload  and share stuff, ..rather than having links in different project threads

    so we could have a central repository for scenes and assets.

    To clarify,   I'm saying,.  let's create a central storage area, to keep all previous scenes and models available to any carrara users,

    if that's possible, and everyone agree's.

    if not,.  i'm ok with the way things are.  

    I'm glad you like ,. :)

    I am on board with that. Anything I contribute to these forum projects is free for any use to anyone who wants them. laugh

     

    Same here.  I think everything I contributed to the second project is posted as zip files to this thread.  Some of the files for the first challenge were posted to sharecg. 

  • FifthElementFifthElement Posts: 569
    Dartanbeck said:
    MDO2010 said:
    3DAGE said:

    Hi Dart :)

    Yes, you can keep it,.  it's free to anyone who can download it and use it in Carrara. :)

    Maybe it can be re-cycled and used it in another project,. the same applies to everything else,.... from me, at least (can't speak for other modelers)

    I think that if we're going to have an animation club,. it needs to have some assets which can be dropped into scenes, tables, chairs, potion cupboards, jars, etc..

    it's also an encouragement to participate ,.  join in ,get free stuff,. .. or maybe not,... maybe just get free stuf for carrara, which is fine too.

    (just thinking out loud here)...

    I dont know if it's possible to set up a  club "account" on something like Share CG where we could upload  and share stuff, ..rather than having links in different project threads

    so we could have a central repository for scenes and assets.

    To clarify,   I'm saying,.  let's create a central storage area, to keep all previous scenes and models available to any carrara users,

    if that's possible, and everyone agree's.

    if not,.  i'm ok with the way things are.  

    I'm glad you like ,. :)

    I am on board with that. Anything I contribute to these forum projects is free for any use to anyone who wants them. laugh

    Fantastic, Mark! I'm loving all of the stuff you've been contributing already!!! Thanks!

    FifthElement, diomede, wgdjohn, Stezza, Mike, others, do you all mind if we were to include your submissions to a depository for public download?

    My cat is your cat, sure thing, all of the models and textures I have posted here or anywhere else for download are in public domain, no credit required either (would be nice though) smiley

  • mmoirmmoir Posts: 821

    Hey Dart,   Here is the link to the final carrara file for scene #2 , let me know if  you have any issues with the link.  I am almost done scene #4 as well .

     

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-aBvxIlPU5GVENONmFhaktwWnc

  • mmoirmmoir Posts: 821
    edited October 2016

    Hmmm....  I would ,woooouuuuld saaaaay External/Prop/Architecture.    Whatever way we go it would be nice to have thumbnails to go with the modlel catalogue files.  

    3DAGE said:

    more fuel for the fire,.

    Scene: External : Night. .. or,. External Prop. (164 kb)

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7907045/cottage.car

     

    Post edited by mmoir on
  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited October 2016

    3DAGE and Mike,  Would it be feasible or could this be done on Deviant Art or Carrara Cafe?  For that matter there is a Freebies section in the DAZ forums and anyone with a Renderosity account can upload files.

    Wherever is decided the actual files need to be located in one place. I'd though about making a web page on a new Earthlink account of mine but everyone wanting to upload to it would need to know the same uname/password to place the files there... besides I have limited space, my problem for not paying more money for more space.

    The problem with placing files in a Dropbox, or similar, account is that one day they will cease to exist when the user needs to create more space for additional uploads.

    One thing quickly learned about the internet is that links lead to places which no longer exist. Entire sites eventually go away or features go away.  The ArtZone at DAZ3D is a good example and is sadly missed.

    Suggestions/Ideas:

    • Any account created needs to have 2, at least, people attached to it so that either can control it in the others absence.
    • If one of the folks attached to that account looses interest etc the other can take over and attach a different person to take over.
    • The addition of a "Donate" button might help support this and relieve any cost that the account may incur.

    I'm sure that I've left out something... If I could only think of what. :)

    Feel free to point out any faults in anything above.... go ahead... I can take it. :)

    BTW:  I love Andy's idea. Very cool.

    Post edited by wgdjohn on
  • DesertDudeDesertDude Posts: 1,235
    Dartanbeck said:

    Fantastic, Mark! I'm loving all of the stuff you've been contributing already!!! Thanks!

    FifthElement, diomede, wgdjohn, Stezza, Mike, others, do you all mind if we were to include your submissions to a depository for public download?

    Yes, please feel free to do what you wish with whatever I contribute, all free etc..

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    Anyone is welcome to anything I have/will contribute(d) as well.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551
    mmoir said:

    Hey Dart,   Here is the link to the final carrara file for scene #2 , let me know if  you have any issues with the link.  I am almost done scene #4 as well .

     

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-aBvxIlPU5GVENONmFhaktwWnc

    Downloaded beautifully! ;)

    Awesome! We're crankin' along!

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551
    diomede said:
    MDO2010 said:
    3DAGE said:

    Hi Dart :)

    Yes, you can keep it,.  it's free to anyone who can download it and use it in Carrara. :)

    Maybe it can be re-cycled and used it in another project,. the same applies to everything else,.... from me, at least (can't speak for other modelers)

    I think that if we're going to have an animation club,. it needs to have some assets which can be dropped into scenes, tables, chairs, potion cupboards, jars, etc..

    it's also an encouragement to participate ,.  join in ,get free stuff,. .. or maybe not,... maybe just get free stuf for carrara, which is fine too.

    (just thinking out loud here)...

    I dont know if it's possible to set up a  club "account" on something like Share CG where we could upload  and share stuff, ..rather than having links in different project threads

    so we could have a central repository for scenes and assets.

    To clarify,   I'm saying,.  let's create a central storage area, to keep all previous scenes and models available to any carrara users,

    if that's possible, and everyone agree's.

    if not,.  i'm ok with the way things are.  

    I'm glad you like ,. :)

    I am on board with that. Anything I contribute to these forum projects is free for any use to anyone who wants them. laugh

     

    Same here.  I think everything I contributed to the second project is posted as zip files to this thread.  Some of the files for the first challenge were posted to sharecg. 

    Awesome!

     

    FifthElement said:
    Dartanbeck said:
    MDO2010 said:
    3DAGE said:

    Hi Dart :)

    Yes, you can keep it,.  it's free to anyone who can download it and use it in Carrara. :)

    Maybe it can be re-cycled and used it in another project,. the same applies to everything else,.... from me, at least (can't speak for other modelers)

    I think that if we're going to have an animation club,. it needs to have some assets which can be dropped into scenes, tables, chairs, potion cupboards, jars, etc..

    it's also an encouragement to participate ,.  join in ,get free stuff,. .. or maybe not,... maybe just get free stuf for carrara, which is fine too.

    (just thinking out loud here)...

    I dont know if it's possible to set up a  club "account" on something like Share CG where we could upload  and share stuff, ..rather than having links in different project threads

    so we could have a central repository for scenes and assets.

    To clarify,   I'm saying,.  let's create a central storage area, to keep all previous scenes and models available to any carrara users,

    if that's possible, and everyone agree's.

    if not,.  i'm ok with the way things are.  

    I'm glad you like ,. :)

    I am on board with that. Anything I contribute to these forum projects is free for any use to anyone who wants them. laugh

    Fantastic, Mark! I'm loving all of the stuff you've been contributing already!!! Thanks!

    FifthElement, diomede, wgdjohn, Stezza, Mike, others, do you all mind if we were to include your submissions to a depository for public download?

    My cat is your cat, sure thing, all of the models and textures I have posted here or anywhere else for download are in public domain, no credit required either (would be nice though) smiley

    LOL! Cool Thanks!

    Yeah... I'd hope that credit is always given to the author.

     

    DesertDude said:
    Dartanbeck said:

    Fantastic, Mark! I'm loving all of the stuff you've been contributing already!!! Thanks!

    FifthElement, diomede, wgdjohn, Stezza, Mike, others, do you all mind if we were to include your submissions to a depository for public download?

    Yes, please feel free to do what you wish with whatever I contribute, all free etc..

    Sweet!

    wgdjohn said:

    Anyone is welcome to anything I have/will contribute(d) as well.

    Beautiful!

    Hey, thanks everybody! I wouldn't want to go offering stuff to others without permission from the original author. I really appreciate your generosity! 

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551
    3DAGE said:

    more fuel for the fire,.

    Scene: External : Night. .. or,. External Prop. (164 kb)

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7907045/cottage.car

    Very nice!

  • mmoirmmoir Posts: 821

    Hey Dart,  I am pretty sure scene 4 is done too,  I am doing a full render of the animation right now to see if everything is okay with it.  I will upload the carrara file and the rendered avi or mpeg from handbrake and you can see if the mpeg is useable.  It would be nice to see if the compressed animation is useable , if it is useable than  several people could  be rendering different scenes all at once. 

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551

    I never use compressed video - but we can try it.

    I think that 3DAGE's idea was better in that regard: Render to sequenced png or other lossless image format, like bmp, etc., and then zip up the folder they're in instead.

    Even if the Editor's software doesn't like sequenced images, we can open them in Carrara and save to avi

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551

    Very cool! I had little spookies today and over night. Tomorrow afternoon I should be able to continue on my end.

    Yeah... these renders are certainly no bother to me. My machine cranks right through them! ;)

  • mmoirmmoir Posts: 821

    Yes, the sequenced  png in  a zip file works but the file size is still pretty big unless I did something wrong. 

    My original test avi was 345mb. The zipped pngs came in at 142mb and the compressed avi was 1.4mb.  

    Dartanbeck said:

    I never use compressed video - but we can try it.

    I think that 3DAGE's idea was better in that regard: Render to sequenced png or other lossless image format, like bmp, etc., and then zip up the folder they're in instead.

    Even if the Editor's software doesn't like sequenced images, we can open them in Carrara and save to avi

     

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634

    I've use AVS4YOU to tighen up even compressed files with some success... I don't know for sure but it might handle sequenced image file formats also... pretty sure it does.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    Depending on what you're using to edit,. and what it can output,. quicktime seems to be a usable format with a relatively low file size.

    compared to the raw png's,.

    There are several packs of stock footage which are suppied as quicktime  .mov files.

    it' just a shame that ther's no QT export on the 64bit Carrara,. (because apple haven't made it 64bit).

    but it is in the 32 bit

    as a test,. here's a little five second comp of the witch, flying down through the trees, to the cauldron area,. from a follow cam perspective,. see how that works with the rest of the footage. (56mb)

    the raw pngs are (105mb) and zip to about the same , but i wont bother linking to those, cause it's just a test , and not that good :) lot's of poke thru. and no cape.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7907045/swoopcomp.mov

    and the H264 mp4 version (4mb)

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7907045/swoopcomp.mp4

  • mmoirmmoir Posts: 821

    Hey Dart,

     Here is the link to the Carrara File for Scene 4, again let me know if you have issued downloading it. 

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-aBvxIlPU5Gck1pX0RyajhIcjA

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551
    3DAGE said:

    Depending on what you're using to edit,. and what it can output,. quicktime seems to be a usable format with a relatively low file size.

    compared to the raw png's,.

    There are several packs of stock footage which are suppied as quicktime  .mov files.

    it' just a shame that ther's no QT export on the 64bit Carrara,. (because apple haven't made it 64bit).

    but it is in the 32 bit

    as a test,. here's a little five second comp of the witch, flying down through the trees, to the cauldron area,. from a follow cam perspective,. see how that works with the rest of the footage. (56mb)

    the raw pngs are (105mb) and zip to about the same , but i wont bother linking to those, cause it's just a test , and not that good :) lot's of poke thru. and no cape.

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7907045/swoopcomp.mov

    and the H264 mp4 version (4mb)

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7907045/swoopcomp.mp4

    Sweet! I grabbed both just in case one works better than the other... looks like it should fit right in! 

    Thanks 3DAGE!!! :)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551
    mmoir said:

    Hey Dart,

     Here is the link to the Carrara File for Scene 4, again let me know if you have issued downloading it. 

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-aBvxIlPU5Gck1pX0RyajhIcjA

    Awesome! Got it!

    I'm currently rendering panels 2, 3, and 5, and with 3DAGE's panel 7, 8 is the only one left!

    Want me to do it or does anyone else want it?

    For Panel 5 I have Mike's wonderful bats fluttering up out of the way of the incoming Witch. Can't wait to see how it turns out. Test renders looked good.

    2 looks fantastic! Mike, you rock!

    I've also made a repeat of panel 1, but without the Witch in it - and instead of zooming back away from the moon, it begins where panel 1 left off. The purpose is just to add a second-take, wondering if we saw anything... this panel showing no evidence of what is to come.

    Getting closer, Folks! :)

    Thanks for sharing the fun - I'm really glad that I've gotten involved in it. This particular scenario came at just the right time where I was actually able to help. Many times I just don't have the time to commit like this.

    I've got some really exciting stuff going on with my own production - stuff that didn' require me to be busy on my Carrara machine. I have a feeling that, after this one, I'm going to be busy with rendering out many scenes of my own - but we'll see if I can still join in - in some way or another.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,551

    So I didn't see any takers for sounds or anything like that. Does the club just want me to polish this thing as soon as all of the panels are in?

    I have done some digging and found that I think I have enough sounds on my end to make this whole thing pretty wonderful - but if anyone has something to contribute, I'd be happy to use it.

    I'm also really gooving on the texts that 3DAGE has made and uploaded. Totally using that! 

    I can't remember if I brought this up yet:

    Does anyone mind if I put a bit of advertising for the club and for Carrara in the ending? This particular production should end up being somewhere just over one and a quarter minutes. We'll have a short bit of an intro adding a few more seconds, and I agree that it might be fun to blink in some sort of second-look in the middle of the end credits - something like the Witch messing with her potion rack or perhaps doing something over by the cauldron to get a nice close-up of that bubbling brew - perhaps with the cat and bats involved. Maybe she turns the skeleton into a walking corpse?

    Either way, I'm really excited to get the rest of the panels done! 

    3DAGE (or anyone) - if you feel like rendering out some extra content... well.. I'd be happy to use some in the outro! ;)

  • wgdjohnwgdjohn Posts: 2,634
    edited November 2016

    Dart, all your ideas sound good to me.

    I'd be happy to render out extra conten... someone will need to send me a super fast multi-core machine or more to do this on.  Ship too... :)

    Post edited by wgdjohn on
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    John,. :)

    If you've go some time,. have a go at rendering out the bare woods scene,.maybe with a moving camera,.  just a few seconds.

    then render out a new empty scene, with just the witch flying past the camera left to right, / right to left , or whatever,.. as if flying through the trees.

    render that as Png with alpha,. then it can be composited onto the woods scene background, or anywhere else.

    you can even do that compositing in carrara,. by rendering out the woods scene,. then loading that into the Scene "Backdrop",. then add the witch and animate it,.

    you should be able to see the video clip of the woods scene, in the backdrop, while you animate the motion of the witch.

    you can render that out as images or a video clip.

    it makes more sense to work light, than loading up a big scene with lot's of stuff, ..then trying to render it all at the same time.

     

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311

    Dart :)

    Here's an updated version of the witch swoop .mov,. with the cape on, and poke-thru adjusted. (54mb)

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7907045/swoop.mov

    h264 mp4 version

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7907045/swoop.mp4 (4mb)

  • mmoirmmoir Posts: 821

    Hey Dart, 

      I didn't know 3dage was doing panel 7,  I think the one he sent in was just for test purposes on the quality issue but I could be wrong. If no one chimes in and wants to do panel  8 I can do it. 

    Anyways, once you have all the shots as far as I am concerned you can finish it off.

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