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You make some good points Holly, but I would point out that I said right away I wasn't interested in the movie project as I had my own things to do. For what it's worth, I agree with your take on it.
Quite honestly, there's refreshing honesty and blunt honesty, and then there's being a sarcastic jerk. You, I tend to lump into the refreshing and blunt honesty category. You can be very blunt and plain spoken, but you don't over-generalize about "all" the forum members and go out of your way to be cruel or insult people, and when someone does take offense you don't tend to act like a martyr.
If you want to see self editing, you should see some of the posts I've deleted before even hitting the submit button.
LOL. *raises hand* GUILTY!!
And yeah, agree with everything you say. Participating in any community means you have to hold up to at least COMMON standards of communication..., otherwise people will lash out and excommunicate you. There's a point where the bad outweighs any good.... And Joe has a habit of saying the worst at the end where it is most remembered (I think he works himself up as he goes along...). I like honesty. I also like self-editing.... I especially like people who put their renders where their mouths are.
I'm still up for helping with an ongoing community project that could really be for and by the Carrara community... Cafe has Groups and anyone can start one if you need a place to host.... We all have deadlines (and family and work). It would be sweet if we could hold on to the actual accomplishments though - I love Faba's fractured fairytale (#1 in the animation playlist). I love most of Wendy's animations because they just slap me in the face and make me laugh, and remind me that "getting stuck" is my fault, not the software.... Plenty of my favorite childhood cartoons had a charm and humor and imagination that went beyond photoreal animation....
I'd like to see some kind of monthly challenge like the NANORIMO. A little round-robin of encouragement and practice could go a LONG way to boosting morale. I don't have the financial resources to "bribe" members to participate in a contest, but getting some honest feedback and giving thoughtful feedback in return should be the minimum participation in a community. Instead we have endless threads about *other* software and bemoaning what hasn't happened (even when it actually has happened). That's a lot of whinging and me me me-ism. Honestly you get out what you put in. If you were in any relationship and all you talked about was the other yards being greener and how disappointed you are..., yeah big surprise when that relationship doesn't take you very far.
I just don't want to work on a project that has fart jokes. For me that's a dealbreaker. LOL
LOL. *raises hand* GUILTY!!
And yeah, agree with everything you say. Participating in any community means you have to hold up to at least COMMON standards of communication..., otherwise people will lash out and excommunicate you. There's a point where the bad outweighs any good.... And Joe has a habit of saying the worst at the end where it is most remembered (I think he works himself up as he goes along...). I like honesty. I also like self-editing.... I especially like people who put their renders where their mouths are.
I'm still up for helping with an ongoing community project that could really be for and by the Carrara community... Cafe has Groups and anyone can start one if you need a place to host.... We all have deadlines (and family and work). It would be sweet if we could hold on to the actual accomplishments though - I love Faba's fractured fairytale (#1 in the animation playlist). I love most of Wendy's animations because they just slap me in the face and make me laugh, and remind me that "getting stuck" is my fault, not the software.... Plenty of my favorite childhood cartoons had a charm and humor and imagination that went beyond photoreal animation....
I'd like to see some kind of monthly challenge like the NANORIMO. A little round-robin of encouragement and practice could go a LONG way to boosting morale. I don't have the financial resources to "bribe" members to participate in a contest, but getting some honest feedback and giving thoughtful feedback in return should be the minimum participation in a community. Instead we have endless threads about *other* software and bemoaning what hasn't happened (even when it actually has happened). That's a lot of whinging and me me me-ism. Honestly you get out what you put in. If you were in any relationship and all you talked about was the other yards being greener and how disappointed you are..., yeah big surprise when that relationship doesn't take you very far.
I just don't want to work on a project that has fart jokes. For me that's a dealbreaker. LOL
Well, there goes my idea.... :down:
I DID?? Maybe my memory is getting really really bad, but I have no clue what you're talking about.
And I realize that for some strange reason I'm totally fair game for any negativity or psychoanalysis you guys want to toss my way, but I'm having a real hard time figuring out what you could possibly be referring to when you say "off color". Although I think you're the same person who characterized me has homophobic solely because I posted an image of a monster wearing pink. But I was also accused of sending "hate mail", which was in no way anything close, but of course since it was me it just had to be true, so everyone took that as gospel.
And I also realize I'm wasting my time even suggesting it, but maybe you guys might want to tone down the childish name calling and the incredibly rude gathering of buddies all explaining to each other why I'm such a bad person. You keep saying "it's not what you say, it's how you say it", and get all upset over what you perceive to be "attacks", and in return you viciously attack me and call me every possible nasty name in the book, feeling totally justified and proud to do it, and then you all sit around and discuss me like I'm some sort of animal in a cage.
Good lord people, I ask someone to justify their statements, and for that I deserve this insanely rude and nasty treatment by people who are always wagging their fingers at me because I'm not sweet enough? Are you serious? Instead of patting yourselves on the back for being "refreshingly honest", try focusing on acting like adults.
"In a huff"... if that jogs your memory - was a phrase you used in the deleted post.... And no I don't recall calling you homophobic, but I won't deny it. My memory lasts at least through last night. Your memory is apparently also "selective". ;)
I have no idea what hate mail you have sent, that's between you and the person you sent the hate mail to.
Honestly, I think you're mistaken about me and an "off color" post and self censorship or whatever. But it really doesn't matter I suppose. I'm a terrible person until the end of time, no matter what the facts are. That's what everyone wants to believe, so they'll reinforce that belief any time they can. Like when I tell you I never sent hate mail, and you reply with "....the person you sent hate mail to". Incredible.
Okay, I had a nice relaxing swim in a beautiful ocean, so let me try to put this whole discussion in perspective in an attempt to resolve it like adults....
Let me give some examples....
Evil, you're from Wisconsin, right? How would you respond if somebody posted here something like this:
"...and geez, just try to find a decent piece of cheese in the whole state of Wisconsin !!! Good luck...ain't gonna happen. You're much better off in New Jersey"
How would you respond?
And Holly, you're a female, correct? How would you respond if somebody posted here something like this:
"...and of course women always get paid a lot more than men do for the same job..."
How would you respond?
Well, you'd probably think the statements were pretty preposterous, correct? Kinda like I felt with dartanbeck's statement. Kinda preposterous. So would you respond along the lines of "WHAT ARE YOU, NUTS???". Probably, huh?
So now look at my response to dartanbeck in that same light, and read it as objectively as you can:
"Oh really? How many times have you tried to get hired as a professional 3D artist somewhere? Has this happened often to you?"
Now, honestly, READING IT OBJECTIVELY and without any preconceived hatred, does my response REALLY seem that out of line? And did it really deserve all of this outpouring of derision and name calling? And no, Holly, I'm not addressing any of your responses, just using you for one of my examples because it popped into my head.
I would ask if the person had actually tried Wisconsin cheese to make a fair comparison. I then might suggest a couple fine cheeses to try. For instance, I know a local cheese factory that makes an excellent 10 year old cheddar.... It's so sharp it'll pierce the eater through the heart.
Yeah...well...okay...
I never expected you to admit you may have gone a bit overboard with the attacks and name calling, so I guess we'll have to accept that as the closest you'll come to an apology.
Yeah...well...okay...
I never expected you to admit you may have gone a bit overboard with the attacks and name calling, so I guess we'll have to accept that as the closest you'll come to an apology.
I wouldn't try too hard to make what I typed into an apology. I didn't type one.
Next time you're floating in the ocean, turn and look down at the water. What reflects back, only you know. Of course, anything you bring with you will be reflected back as well.
There are metaphorical oceans as well. Life is a good one. So are interactions with others. They all reflect what you bring with you.
[The audience members at the back of the crowd are having trouble hearing the Sermon on the Mount.]
Man: I think it was, "Blessed are the cheesemakers"!
Gregory's wife: What's so special about the cheesemakers?
Gregory: Well, obviously it's not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturer of dairy products.
now what's asking about Dart's job application history got to do with this ?
about as much as the Sermon on the Mount ;)
I have no idea when I'll be in Newcastle again. But I'm buying the first 3 rounds of beer!
holly saideth
.count me in
I have no idea when I'll be in Newcastle again. But I'm buying the first 3 rounds of beer!
heh, that sounds good thanks!
I should warn you that when I drink beer I laugh a lot, say really stupid things, and fall over at the end.
Come to think about it, obviously Beer doesn't change me from my normal self.
hicuup, hiccup, stumble stumble, swagger, fall, boink. ;)
Sounds like it will a good time had by all!
OT: I really should stop procrastinating and get my Aussie passport...
Nice thoughts. And a skillful dodge, as usual.
So where does calling someone a sarcastic jerk fit in with that philosophy? Just got caught up in things, huh? Not your fault?
I do not recall attributing that to anyone in particular. You inferred it from a post that was in response to Holly.
As usual, another totally irrelevant dodge.
Go have a beer with your buddies and celebrate your awesomeness...
Let's drop it, please.
Wow. I can't make even a slightly off post with out it immediately getting pulled; and I mean in a few seconds, Yet Joe can have a go at everyone and nothing happens.
Nope, no mob bias on this forum :long:
I reiterate the comment I made yesterday morning in post #83
good morning :-)
Oh really? How many times have you tried to get hired as a professional 3D artist somewhere? Has this happened often to you? Oh my!
For it is to laugh! This is so freaking funny - Joseph
Okay, so some people don't like drawn butter with their lobster. Okay... I got it!
I'm really glad to hear that you've hired some folks using the "Diamond in the Rough" method. I do that, too. Works great sometimes... sometimes not. But I like to be more open than the straight forward "Apply if you qualify for all of the requirements listed below" sort of thing.
But, yeah. I only heard it from a few people, truthfully - just to muse to your question. In my defense, however, they were the people who hire for their respective companies, none of which worked at the same place. Lead Modeler for Sony is a good friend of mine who started his career straight out of high school. The company that started him off hired him over the unfinished (but pretty sweet) game that he was creating, and posting his progress online at school (well, school's web forum). The company was one of the big 'uns in the game industry at the time (likely still are - but I don't follow that stuff) and his first project with them was a huge seller. It was only a few short years in the biz before he was heading up the character modeling departments wherever he worked. Sony had him doing the lead character modeling and much of the design work for PS3 prior to release - like the Prince of Persia title, amongst many others.
Before I get long winded here, another guy worked with BioWare, another I'm not sure who paid him but he was designing some CG stuff for Space travel technology. Those three were all willing to hire me if the relocation would be acceptable for me - which it wasn't. Nor did I want the job, truthfully. Otherwise I'd have moved! lol But that was because they saw what I could do just with G-Max, during the time when 3DS Max was in version 5. Funny thing is that it is those folks who turned me on to Poser in the first place. I was talking about how I'd love to hobby my way into making my own movie, all by myself - but how long it would take just to create all of the assets on my own - which is what I was doing for them. Fitting and adjusting UV maps, creating bipedal models rigged to their spec, making items that they needed for their projects - it was all gaming assets and I did it for fun.
3DS Max is an amazing piece of software. Now that I'm running myself through the actual, official campaigns of Neverwinter Nights and all of its expansions, I'm using the Rosie appearance assets that I made for myself - just for fun - on my main character. The hair and blouse blow around in the game wind as well as during movement. Ooops - getting of the subject... oh yeah... I said that wheat toast tastes best if you butter it before you apply the jelly - and you thought that I was misleading people by that. Well, I would apologize - but... edited out.
Anyways, yeah. Joe's right. There are exceptions.
I do Poser style animations because I like them and I enjoy making them. I have given up Poser for Carrara because it fits my fingers better. But I'm still using the same content that I would be using if I were still animating in Daz Studio or Poser. So what I said to get Joe's mom's son all upset, applies to my Carrara endeavors as much as my Poser and Daz Studio films did in the past. Does this mean that there is no possible way for me to land a job creating animations the way I do? Absolutely not. What I wanted to prepare you for, is the fact that many CG industry companies rely on their lead staff members to help them grow. Many of the people put in charge of hiring modelers, animators, texture artists, etc., are looking for people that create their own assets using tools that resemble the tools used in their industry. I know people who are pros at using Maya and 3DS Max, who have no problem, whatsoever, with people using Daz/Poser figures. They tell me, and I have noticed, myself, that they are fairly rare in their crowd. At one point, it even made me feel almost as if the guy using Poser content was the guy riding up to a biker convention on a scooter. Nothing wrong with it, but not accepted but by a few.
Besides. If you want to get a job at a place that wants you to make your own assets for them, show them what you can make. If what you make then goes into Poser or Carrara or Daz Studio to render it out, I doubt you'd have a hard time. But if you're trying to land an animation job at a game house, they're usually not interested in what you can make Michael 4 do. Game companies need their people to know how games work. Even if all you do is animate, you still need to know how to build what it is that you are putting in motion - almost guaranteed. Joe might hire you... but I wouldn't plan on getting into Bethesda with an aniBlock dance routine.
BTW, sorry for the late post. Really sick these days.
For it is to laugh! This is so freaking funny - Joseph
But, yeah. I only heard it from a few people, truthfully
Okay, well, so just to be clear about all this (which, honestly, isn't easy, with all the strange references to wheat toast and drawn butter and Rosie (?) and Neverwinter and lobster and jelly and...)..........
You said if you bring DAZ/Poser made videos to an interview to get hired as a professional 3D artist, forget it because those videos are about to be shredded, right? And I asked how many times you've tried to be hired as a professional 3D artist, and whether this has happened to you often, correct?
And after getting totally thrashed by most people here for being cruel and insensitive, it turns out the answer is that you've NEVER tried to be hired as a professional 3D artist, this has NEVER happened to you, and you only heard something from a few people that led you to believe that it might be difficult to get hired in the gaming industry based on prepackaged characters and animations done in DAZ or Poser.
Is that about right? Which means your statement was, for the VFX industry as a whole, pretty much baseless, correct?
And with all of this, everyone thinks I am the bad guy here, right?
time for a lock :-)
count down
Dartanbeck, I agree that in the gaming industry, creating content from scratch is very important. The industry is advancing rapidly. The models have to be efficient to free up resources for the game engine.
But, when it comes to storyboarding, just about anything is accepted. Everything from sketched storyboards to simple 3d models. Pre-vis animations are the same. Although it helps to have assets that resemble the movie. Such as basic geometry that resembles shot locations or cg environments (made or to be made).
Pick up a few movies that use special effects. Anything from Star Wars, Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull to simpler effects movies like Sahara. Watch the behind the scenes specials. DAZ Studio, Poser and Carrara could be used to do these quite easily. Although, DS and Poser would probably need custom assets created from a modeling package to match what's wanted in the story. But the assets can be very basic. Having the characters already made saves a great deal of time.
Here's an article on it. And, you'll see Poser and DAZ Studio listed in it.
http://www.tallmanfilms.com/storyboard-software/
Production Paintings could be created with DAZ or Poser products. They capture scenes to be made in the movie to help others see the world your creating. And DAZ tools are more than capable of creating stunning images that could capture any world one imagines.
:lol:
ID,
Yeah... Storyboarding and PreViz is a whole realm to its own. I never really knew how incredibly huge that is until fairly recently.
It would be cool to have my own storyboard artist following me around all day, sketching what I told him to, and then sending some of the more intense action ideas to a previz team... would be cool indeed.
I think I'd also love to perform previz shots, too... perhaps. I'm guessing that it would have to be fairly fast-paced... which would add to the intensity of it all...
ID,
Yeah... Storyboarding and PreViz is a whole realm to its own. I never really knew how incredibly huge that is until fairly recently.
It would be cool to have my own storyboard artist following me around all day, sketching what I told him to, and then sending some of the more intense action ideas to a previz team... would be cool indeed.
I think I'd also love to perform previz shots, too... perhaps. I'm guessing that it would have to be fairly fast-paced... which would add to the intensity of it all...
Usually, you'd set down in sessions and go over the shots with the storyboard artist or artists and the same with the pre-vis and production painter. This is done before they begin shooting. With big special effects movies it's almost a requirement. It cuts down on wasted time by getting everyone on the same page. Big budget movies can get expensive fast without proper planing.
Plus, if your wanting to pitch your idea to others, it only helps to have as much of these elements in place. It might help them see what your trying to get across. That's why I'm learning to do it.