Animating in DAZ Studio - a big disappointment!
XoechZ
Posts: 1,102
Today I tried to do a simple animation with G3F, bringing her from a standing to a crouching position. The idea behind it was, that she found a coin on the street and wants to pick it up. I thought that cant bee too hard. But then I spent the whole afternoon with it and in the end I gave it up! Why? I will tell you:
In an ideal environment you would simply have to bring the hip down. Why? Because the feet are on the ground and cant move further down. So the legs have to bend and they can only bend in one direction (because of the anatomy of the knee).
Ok, DAZ Studio is no ideal environment, because there is no real floor. No problem, I can live with that.
Next I wanted to fix the feet on the ground, so that they cannot move through the floor. I tried everything. I pinned them, locked them in every possible way. Forget it. Pinning/Locking does not work. The feet still move through the floor like a hot knife through soft butter.
Next I thought about what happens when you move to a crouching position. The knees move forward and the hips move down. So the legs bend and the feet stay at their position. I tried to do this with G3F, and this was the first time that I realised that G3F has no knnes! Why not? It would make everything much simpler if she had knees. But there are no. Just tighs ans shins.
So the only way to "bring her down" was to manually bend the tighs and shins. Slowly and gradually. Bad thing is that this way the feet always lift from the ground and get out of their position. So you always have to lower the whole figure and repose the feet. And this way it is simply impossible to get a smooth and natural movement. Sliding and jumping feet are the result and the whole movement looks robotic and unnatural.
As said above, I fiddeled around the whole afternoon and did not get an acceptable result. And I dont know why. Is it the rigging, the bones, the joints, the whole IK system, the broken pinning or all together? I mean, am I blind or stupid or simply unable to create a smooth and natural animation with G3F?
Are there some tricks, tips or different workflows to get the job done? By the way, I do not blame the animation tools. I use Keymate and Graphmate and they both do what they should. So is it G3F who is unwilling to move naturally or is it DAZ Studio who does not let us create natural animations? I dont know, I am no expert, but I think serious animating in DAZ Studio is impossible.
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Comments
The Shin Bend bone is the knee joint - figures have named bones which meet at the joints, rather than named joints with attached bones.
I think we mean different things here.
I mean a knee that you can grab and drag with the pose tools. There is no. You can only move the tighs ans shins. But there is no knee.
Hi Daz studio like poser does not have an industry standard IK system
with foot contact.
This is the source of your problem.
Ok, and how can I solve this problem? Wait until DAZ Studio offers the necessary features (which will probably never happen) or use a different software for animation?
if want to spend a fair bit of money there is iClone 6 pro and 3dXchange pipeline
Genesis 3 exports quite well
I have not had much luck bring the animation BVH back to D|S though with G3M and F but earlier figures can work selecting hip node in both apps, is a rather dodgey, Poser BVH import gives a better result so maybe after baking with foot contact and exporting and applying to genesis use one of the Genesis 3 animated converters.
There is a tool called the "Active Pose Tool".
When using it you can perform several important actions.
So to have a character bend down, you pin the feet in their position and then just drag the hip down with the Transform Gizmo. You can adjust the rotation of the Thigh and shin by pinning the hip afterwards (multiple objects can be pinned at the same time) and dragging the ORIGIN of the SHIN bone. That's how you grab the knee...
There is also the fact that the Genesis figures react differently to the Active Pose tool because of the differences in their joint setups.
Genesis 3 female has additional twist joints in bones that can be selected from the scene tab but not the viewport. You have to factor them in when pinning stuff down or else you will get movement regardless.
Also.... there is a lot more to animation in DAZ Studio.
I could make a whole guide explaining the differences and how to use them.... but for now, is this explanation neough?
oh and the iClone bvh is extremely flakey so scratch that idea
I just tested it.
Poser has ik pinning, maybe convert to triax, save as a cr2 (companion file) use DSON and do it in there and save a pz2 pose file.
Hi
I use Iclone pro& 3Dxchange because of this issue
I highly reccommend it if one can afford it.
Hi I use Iclone to create custom body motion BVH for any figure from
Mike &Vicky 2 all the way up the line to genesis 2
The problem is that the genesis 3 rigging has extra bones in each limb.
Genesis 3 imports and animates as well as any other figurer in Iclone
However the figure simply will NOT accept its own custom BVH file exported for use in DAZ studio.
This is Not an Iclone problem
heres is an example of how well BVH
from Iclone works with Geneis 2 compared to genesis 3
genesis 2 is obviously the first figure shown walking
If you Must use G3 as your animated character you must first apply the animation to a previous generation figure and use one of the animation retargeting scripts like Commercial one from Draagonstorm or the freebie script from zaz777.
p.s.
Dont use poser for foot contact IK switching either!!
its IK is rubbish from the 1990's
once turned on it becomes "global"
and even after deactivating it retroactively ruins the previous part of your animation
about BVH,, if you export G3F animation as bvh from daz studio, and just re import same bvh and re-apply it for gen3,, it not work already mentioned rig problems. I thought it is kind of joke,, when I first heared it. after all I and another one user,, remove those "twist rigs" and re-targetting,,, (though I do not think it is usuall way(
And enve though we recommend Animate 2,, it can not well with genesis3female still,, some option not work for G3F.. eg sub track layer option. we can not set about many nodes.
DAZ man said in tutoriall,, now animation team is working,, how many months we need to version up for current base figure,, about DAZ officialy recommend main figure animaiton tool ?
IIRC the retroactively thing only happens if you save while IK is activated.
Hi forgive me, but this is not correct.
I just tried the following in poser "pro2014 "
Load any figure and enable IK for the feet
Select the hip
Go the frame 15 or so and lower the hip on the Y axis
making the figure squat down as IK will keep his feet pinned.
Go the frame 30 and raise the hip back to the full standing position
You now have a nice 30 frame animation of a poser figure squating up and down
Do not save............. or save it matters not.
Now at frame 31 turn OFF IK for the feet and try to add some imported walking BVH or animated pose file or other motion where his feet will now be moviing.
Watch how it destroys the first Squating up & Down portion of your animation.
Here I did exactly what you said. I used the Active Pose Tool, pinned the feet and moved down the hip with the transform gizmo.
Please look at the result. And so I still say it does not work! The feet slide back and move trough the floor, the whole figure slides back and is far away from bending down correctly.
One thing to remember...these programs (Studio and Poser) are primarily designed for the creation of still images...animation is a secondary (maybe even lower) function.
Also, something that seldom gets mentioned in this type of thread is that there are a large number of scripts created by mCasual (Jaques) to assist with various animation tasks...
His scripts can be found here...
https://sites.google.com/site/mcasualsdazscripts/
Which tutorial was this?
That's because you are using Genesis 3.
Genesis 3 behaves screwy with the Active Pose tool.
You can kinda overcome it by pinning a lot more body parts at once, setting the Drawing Option to maximum Accurate and adjusting the Bone Stiffness - but it's generally not worth the trouble.
Not sure why it does that to be honest - but it is BUGGED currently.
I'd suggest you use Genesis 2 or Genesis 1 for animations. The Active Pose tool is fully functional there. I perform that squat easily on them.
Lichard,, do you really I need to offer you the link ? You really not believe me I feel.
you can serch it if you hope to know which tutoriall by google etc,, ,, it is you tube ,daz offer as animation tutoriall.
I really hoped to see it before, (though actually I know,, they may not teach me almost anything,, but it will help some uesrs who start daz . then if daz offer such CM like you tube tutoriall about animation for DAZ studio, I really hope DAZ have more resonsibility what DAZ said.and daz studio animation, tools.)
Then Thomas,, I do not know why you need to show those tools usage strongly. because most of user at least who try to use them
already understand those tools are actually disappointed us much.. And it has been reported as future request.
though I know you hope to offer manuall about daz tools, but at same time,, there are already many user who learn tthose tools as same asyou.
So, you may better not thinki,, if there is user who said problem about tool,, the guys just do not know thoses tools usage.
Richard here is link.
then listen what he say when he guide about genesis3 to add layer as sub timeline.
I know, daz often up-date those tutoriall ,, just for gahter new comer for daz stuido with version up. but DAZ do not continiue it. then all animation turoiall
jsut finish in februaly. the more lean r daz timeline or animation tool,, the more they understand those tutoriall just tell really basic things.
maybe we may see almost same tutoriall,, with up-date daz studio, again and again,,with new base figures .without up-date and improve tool.
If I know which tutorial, and at which time mark, I can check the information with Daz.
Ok, I just want to let you know that I have installed G2F now. And hey, everything works perfectly!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only problem is that I do not have many items for G2F. The most stuff in my library is for G3F. And G2F does not look very good in Iray. But animating her is a joy, because everything works as it should.
Now I can only hope that animation for G3F will work in the same way. Soon.
Then daz just hide it from video ? or DAZ actually improve it ? I thought when listen it,, it is DAZ time joke. Actually I do not disappointed at all, because I already know, daz may not improve it without strong against from user ,, and yours DAZ users like DAZ and like to say more friendly and Positive view.. but about these things, I can not be positive. but just think,, it is not so good without clear understand current actuall daz sutido animation, just posttive user recommend daz studio. animation with many must buy plug in.
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it seems good chace,, if daz really plan up-date the problem for genesis3F and animate2
may better must correct spline tool for genesis2 too. you may often see,, if you play with genesis figures with Animate2
those compatiblity problem. when you really play with more.
Animate2 have never been up-dated to return the same power as same as V4 for long time for genesis figures.
daz already know those things,, if they have animate team. I believe. but daz do not care those things seriously.
if daz really have a plan to push daz animation,, daz must need to check more current Animate 2 and compatiblities.
there are already plenty time,, I think.
so you now need
http://www.daz3d.com/animation-conversion-genesis-2-to-genesis-3
Lol, no thank you!
I am tired of workarounds and buying stuff for things that DAZ is too lazy to fix. DAZ simply has to fix the Active Pose Tool for G3F - and nothing else. Since G3F is a DAZ figure and Active Pose Tool is a DAZ Studio function, I do not want to be forced to buy a third party product just to make things work, that should work by default.
Come on DAZ, please fix this problem! Thank you!
"Most" users means that there might be someone out there who doesn't know. Worst case scenario - people who know will just skip over my post. So not much harm in that I belive.
And I am not offering any manuals about this. I guess that is a language barrier thing (I'm not from an english-speaking country) - in my country, saying that "you could write a manual about it" means that "there is so much talking about this, that I'd rather write a book so I wouldn't have to repeat myself - so its not worth listing all the details here now".
I generally just like to rule out that someone is not aware of a tool or its functions. User error is a common problem, so once that is ruled out - you can confirm bugs. At least that is my approach.
OK sorry Thomas. Then those things will be dsicribed in future and you planed so ?
Why I ask you, I thought whenI find,,some topics,, you will offer manuall for user
And I think it will be offered as free..
But you never said ,, how you plan to offer it. after all, you sell manuall in daz shop.
My attitude clear different,, about manuall,, when the person sell it or offer it as free= true volunteer
then I think,, you simply planed CM your manuall in forum, but at same time,, you are not daz officila person.
I think daz user need not to buy PA document to understand those basic daz studio tool usage,
those things need to be offered by DAZ officially at first. then get garantee. and we can talk about those tool. more precisely.
http://www.daz3d.com/thomas-windar
is this your product ? if so,, I hope you show it more clear. you are manuall vendor already.
Then I do not recommend Active pose to Pin the selected node, and animate other parts for animation. (without OP hope jsut make one Pose)
to be frankly said it not work.
when You set active pose and pin about nodeA. then set poseA,, and key it on daz timeline frame 10
next you move timeline to frame 20. keep pinned node, but transform nodeB.. when you compare Pose A and pose B,
you may think,, the pinned nodeA not change position. then you believe,, now you made animation. which only animate node B
but when you run animation,, the Active pose pinned node A move around then return the pinned position. on frame 20
That is indeed mine.
To be honest I do no understand what you want from me there.
I oppose that statement.
I use it constantly when animating and haven't encountered problems with the tool itself. (Of coure - when using Genesis, Genesis 2 and custom figures. I do not know why Genesis 3 performs oddly with it though...)
It was explained in the video tutorial...there are extra bones in G3 that Active Pose does not know how to deal with.
Well, I have sent a help ticket about this Genesis 3 issue. Now waiting for a reply...