How do I save changes to parameters hierarchy?

JQP

Well, I just wasted several hours of work on the old "sort your parameter dials, save modified assets, close DS, open DS, load figure, see half your work reverted" trap. This thing is like Lucy with the football. Broken for YEARS. It really sucks you in, because you can test it out to see if it works, save your work, delete the figure from the scene, and load a new copy, and it looks like it worked. So then you get all happy because you can finally impose some kind of order on the complete chaos that is the parameters hierarchy, and sink hours into straightening out the complete mess. Then you close DS, open DS, load your figure, and find that half your work has been reverted. In a very systematic way, I might add; it is only certain groups of parameters that seem impervious to changing, while others stay where you put them.

Is there some magic ritual I need to know about? I ask this question every few years, and nothing ever seems to get solved. I read several threads that lead me nowhere, and then I post another thread.

I'm still using 4.8.0.59.

Richard Haseltine

Are all of your morphs in the same content directory? If the modified version is saved to a later content directory than one holding an unmodified version then it will be the unmodified version that loads. The content directory being saved to is listed at the top of the options dialogue.

JQP

As far as I know, yes, all to the same directory (IME, DS likes creating new "data" directories in the volume a scene is saved to). Will check where it's being saved though.

JQP

I just dropped my 2nd data folder from the folder I keep my scenes in (and which I have in my content directories list in DS) into the main content directory. There seem to have been plenty of morphs in there, yes. But now they're merged (I declined overwriting, and deleted the second folder, as it had only dupes), and I fired up DS fresh and tried again, and I get the same issue.

JQP

P.S., I see no directory listing in the "save modified assets" dialog. It just lists the morphs being modified, and their relative paths.

JQP

Richard, you seem to have put your finger on what is happening, but not why. I just checked a modified morph file, and found the "group" tag is the correct (new) one. So it seems that DS is loading the original, unmodified morph. What I can't figure out is why. File index shows there are only two versions of the morph, and they're right where they should be.

JQP

Also, I have used the Take Ownership tool and File Explorer to set "read only" off, but it doesn't seem to have helped anything.

JQP

Does anyone have any workflow advice for changing the original morph files by hand? They all seem to be compressed and maybe encrypted, too, which makes editing and saving problematic, because WinRAR doesn't seem to have full functionality with the file format. I have to open the dsf with WinRAR (WR will not "extract here"); drag the contents from the WR window to the Notepad++ window, edit, and save; close the WR window; delete the dsf file; save the contents as a Zip archive; rename the Zip archive to dsf. And I'm not sure even this will work, as the only morph I managed to modify has disappeared from the figure. I don't know if it was my edits that caused it, or something to do with how WR is handling the file, or maybe I'm saving to the wrong format.

JQP

I think something is seriously wrong with DS code. Now edit mode won't let me change morphs back. E.g., I put a bunch of morphs into new groups, but since I couldn't get rid of some old group names (because some of the morphs in them wouldn't stay where I put them), I figured I'd stick with moving morphs I'd already moved once, and put them into the folders I can't get rid of. But the changes won't stick; these morphs are acting like the other morphs, the ones that wouldn't move in the first place.

JQP

Does moving dials around in the parameters hierarchy work for other people? Please sound off if it does. Because I've never been able to get it to work in DS. In like 5 or 10 years of using it. At this point, I'm tempted to assume it's broken for everyone, simply because the only time I've seen people talk about it is when they're talking about how it doesn't work for them, or how it's supposed to work. I can't recall ever reading a comment by someone simply talking about how it works fine for them.

Oh, and I've reinstalled G3F fresh at least once, reinstalled the G3F basics several times, etc.

Richard Haseltine

Go to preferences (Edit menu on Windows) and clear the DSON cache.

JQP

I cleared the DSON cache but that didn't help. Or maybe it did? I finally managed to move one of the morphs that I was consistently unable to move. I went into GenX morphs menu and disabled the original version, and the previous changes I made showed up the next time I loaded G3F. The trouble with this is that IME, it will break my existing shaping presets. Any ideas on how I might move forward? I have a lot of shapes and I rely on them, and IME, reconstructing them once they've been broken this way is a huge PITA, if not impossible (since the DSON formats make reading and editing so difficult, and AFAIK there are no tools for the job). The problem seems to center around being unable to modify the original morphs.

JQP

I tested with another morph, but this time I created a shaping preset using it first, then disabled it in genx, deleted G3, loaded fresh G3, loaded the preset, and it worked fine. So apparently the problem I saw before with broken shaping presets might not be an issue here. I hope. After all that I was again able to move the parameter and see my changes preserved after reloading G3F. The trouble is it's pretty tedious first making sure each morph I'm going to move is duplicated in my personal morph folder, as some seem not to be.

Richard Haseltine

It's more work, and not something I've tried, but setting the real morph to hidden and creating a new controller where you want it may be a safer bet - you can make aliases, where your controller would inherit the values applied to the hidden morph by a pose, but I'm not sure that would work for you (or at least, would work in all cases for you). That would have the advantage that you wuld eb creating new assets linked to existing assets if it did work (so generally the worst an update to the product would do, as long as it didn't rename the moprhs, would be to unhide them). The needed commands are in the right-click menu when the Parameters pane is in Edit mode.

JQP

That's not a bad idea at all Richard. I never would have thought of that, thanks, I'll try it.

JQP

I don't see a way in the Property Cloner or Mover to send the Alias to the root node. Am I going to have to put all my dials in the hip node?

Richard Haseltine

I had a feeling that might be the case - the other option would be straight ERC, but that's one-way only (and adding rather a lot of complexity to the figure)..

JQP

Richard, using aliases seems to be doing the trick. Your idea tested well, so I went ahead and spent the last six hours cloning everything and then resorting the aliases. Whew! Still, it seems much more straightforward and efficient than my idea. So far, my changes have survived restarting DS and loading a fresh figure. Thank you very much for the great suggestion, I am (further) in your debt. To anyone reading this for tips, Saving Morph Assets seems to be the thing, not Save Modified Assets (had to relearn that; saw an earlier thread where I learned it last year).

Richard Haseltine

I'm glad that's working.

JQP

Richard, would cleaning out the DSON cache speed up saving of wearable presets? I've noticed the process is dramatically faster today. There used to be a delay of several seconds after the save dialog disappeared, where DS was non-responsive. Now that's gone, and DS responds as soon as the dialog disappears.

JQP

I spoke too soon. Looks like my aliases are turning into a $#!^show, too. Can't say I'm surprised. Why would DS manage them any better than anything else?

Richard Haseltine

The cache should affect only loading, as far as I know.

I'm sorry the aliases are also failing - they are, used between nodes, stable as theya re used for several things (for example to link the settings on the bend and twist bones in Genesis 3 so that alls ettings can be made from one or the other) but it may be problematic when they are linking two proeprties on the same node.

ttmmttmmttmm

So, I got here while looking into something similar, and am really surprised that Studio 4.10 is not able to remember property hierarch ychanges.

Is this a known bug? is it a feature I dont understand?

My feeble mind fails to understand how I can set up a property hierarchy of existing dials.

I saved a collection of favorite dials by going into edit mode, then from context menu I did "set > property group" and chose a path I like. Worked while app was still open.

Looked in data folder and see my saved dials inside data folder.

 

But alas, upon relaunching and loading new figure, everything disappeared.

Richard Haseltine

ttmmttmmttmm said:

So, I got here while looking into something similar, and am really surprised that Studio 4.10 is not able to remember property hierarch ychanges.

Is this a known bug? is it a feature I dont understand?

My feeble mind fails to understand how I can set up a property hierarchy of existing dials.

I saved a collection of favorite dials by going into edit mode, then from context menu I did "set > property group" and chose a path I like. Worked while app was still open.

Looked in data folder and see my saved dials inside data folder.

 

But alas, upon relaunching and loading new figure, everything disappeared.

So you used File>Save As>Support Asset>Morph Asset, and the content was installed via DIM (or manually) not via Connect? Even then, an update would overwrite your chnages - it's better to use a Character Preset or Scene Subset and then use that, rather than the default preset, to load the figure.