Carrara Non Photo Realistic Works

UnifiedBrain

Diomede said:

I do know that NPR is affected by object properties.  One clear example is mesh density. Therefore, two seemingly similar objects can render differently.  Here is a quick example.  I have two cubes of identical proportions and identical shaders. The cube on the left has the minimum number of polygons (6).  The cube on the right has been subdivided several times to increase mesh density.  It has 1536 polygons.  They both have identical uvmaps (simple box face).  The shader for both is the same checkered mixer.  I have put them both in the same scene and used the default PR and NPR settings. A default photoreal render will look identical (or very, very, very similar).  Not so for NPR.   As you can see, the default NPR renders the low density cube with much less definition than the high density cube, even though they are the same shape, the same dimensions, and the same shader.

Really nice discovery, Diomede.  Great minds think alike.   I went to bed last night with the persistent idea that crosshatch density must have something to do with the actual mesh.  I think that your experiment proved it.

My problem is that I still know virtually nothing about the model room, so changing densities of a character/object - assuming it is possible? - is not in the cards for me at this time.  Once the Challenge is over, the model room is the next objective.

PhilW

Vyusur said:

PhilW said:

Vyusur said:

Phil, is there any way to improve the quality of a final render in octane, to decrease grain and noise, to change sampling and where? Thank you in advance.

Have you got the latest update - it adds Adaptive Sampling, which speeds up getting noiseless renders. You can turn it on in the Edit / Render Target Settings and set a threshold - when the noise in a certain area meets the threshold value, it stops rendering that area, focusing the rendering on other areas (I think iRay does this by default), so if you have an image with a difficult area, it focuses the processing on that. This means that you can set a higher Samples per Pixel target without getting silly render times.

Lighting also plays an important part - ensure that you have enough lighting in your scene. That doesn't necessarily mean having lots of light sources, but watch out for areas in an image that will only be lit by reflected (bounced) light, particularly if the light has to bounce more than once to get to it. Most of my images have a pretty simple lighting set-up - an HDRI for environmental lighting and then maybe a key light and a rim light or opposing light (on the opposite side to the key light). There are exceptions, but the fewer lights you have, in general the easier it is to control to get the effect that you want. Every light that you add should be there for a specific reason.

I hope this helps.

 

Phil, thank you for the response and detailed explanation! My octane version is 3.20.20, I guess it's fresh. I already know where is «target» menu, but I couldn't find any «threshold» parameter. I only increased the Max.Samples parameter, but I don't know if it has effect on anything.

 

Have a look here for the latest update:

https://render.otoy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=56881&sid=fd81cd64fa150d4f510d4bc6b7b41ba9

Max Samples will stop your render when it reaches that value - but of course you can stop sooner if the image is clear of noise. Max Samples is particularly useful when animating to set a fairly low value, enough to clear most of the noise, otherwise it should be left at a high value.

Vyusur

Phil, thank you a lot for the link and explanation about Max Samples! I didn't know about this update.

UnifiedBrain

head wax said:

Out of interest here's examples of an orginal render and the result after a few million years of post work, using Topaz Simplify and Impression and Fotosketcher plus lots of different render passes. And Oloneo for the final tuning .

Best to use Simplify before Impression

The end result just depends how sketchy you want to go. I painted over the clothes to give a bit of variation to the drabness.

It's a quick process getting the render out of Carrara because the lighting isn't complicated etc - plus you dont worry about artifacts like bright pink handles...

 

 

 

 

 

HW, this was a great post!  Seeing the before and after was very helpful,even if I don't understand all the "million" steps in-between.

Because the contrast of before and after was so striking, I can't help but to think that you could make several video tutorials about your technique, and bundle them into a product that you could sell on Daz.    "Creating Art In the Style of the Old Masters Using Daz Studio or Carrara," or something similar.  I currently don't see anything like that in the store.

Yeah, I know that you said that your method is less a recipe, and more an organic and reactive process  But I still think that you could get people very close to your results by introducing them to inexpensive software and by guiding them through your basic workflow.

Anyway, you may have no desires in this direction.  However, I hope that you think about it.  If you made such a course, I would buy it.

 

Dartanbeck

That is an awesome comparison! And I love the last new Pirate render as well!

I did a little messing around with NPR and YaToon 2.4 and, like the above, I think we get a LOT more control just rendering a basic idea and painting the image from there, much like what HW is doing. "Building Brushes" was finally at 6.2% after spending most of the day doing other stuff that had to get done. Obviously I need to be less drastic with my brush settings and work may way up instead of just going for the gusto.

Either way, I'm glad that I'm getting into this now. It's a fun break. Soon (I hope) I'll find enough time to get a render completed. I think I know what I was doing wrong with YaToon - at least I think I think I know? It felt like a think as I was laying in bed last night! ;)

Headwax

@UnifiedBrain  hi thanks for those kind words and your vote of confidence :)

Ah to be honest I am developing this 'hand done' style to make it more palatable to the publishers who weren't so sure on the art work my agent sent them - so my hours are full at the moment!

 

edited because I realised I was raving :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Headwax

Dartanbeck said:

That is an awesome comparison! And I love the last new Pirate render as well!

I did a little messing around with NPR and YaToon 2.4 and, like the above, I think we get a LOT more control just rendering a basic idea and painting the image from there, much like what HW is doing. "Building Brushes" was finally at 6.2% after spending most of the day doing other stuff that had to get done. Obviously I need to be less drastic with my brush settings and work may way up instead of just going for the gusto.

Either way, I'm glad that I'm getting into this now. It's a fun break. Soon (I hope) I'll find enough time to get a render completed. I think I know what I was doing wrong with YaToon - at least I think I think I know? It felt like a think as I was laying in bed last night! ;)

Hya Dart, thanks for that, really looking forward to seeing your resuylts and conclusions.!!

 

Stezza

@headwax great insight... thanks for that

burn & dodge is very very handy 

Headwax

Stezza said:

@headwax great insight... thanks for that

burn & dodge is very very handy 

ha ha yes Stezza :) can'ty give all secrets away

do you do it this way?

fill a layer with a perfectly neutral grey, make it  luminosity mode

if the grey is really neutral it wont change anything -

then burn and dodge this layer = not sure if it is an advantage but will just change tone and not colour

 

 

Stezza

Headwax

heh that's very funny :)

Dartanbeck

head wax said:

heh that's very funny :)

+1!!! Too true!!!

Headwax

Something different from Pirates ...: "Monkey King"

Topaz simplify and Impression, Fotosketcher on top of several different render passes from Carrara (attached also  one of the passes -  had a little toon1part3 mixed in) .

The Ink one is via Filter Forge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stezza

I must find my committeee of monkeeees... I did a few years ago....

in the meantime

Bunyip02

Frankenstien - YAToon filter

 

wgdjohn

head wax said:

Something different from Pirates ...: "Monkey King"

Topaz simplify and Impression, Fotosketcher on top of several different render passes from Carrara (attached also  one of the passes -  had a little toon1part3 mixed in) .

The Ink one is via Filter Forge.

Cool.  Please tell me are Topaz and Impression programs... I've been tuned in here, enjoying all the great art, and heard you mention Topaz before.  I just finally got started in Filter Forge after upgrading to 6.0 and have not yet explored, played, with it much. If I were to guess I'd think the last pic is what you call the Ink one??... I'm likely wrong tho.

Headwax

Nice work Stezza, now how could there be a missing post here at Daz?  you really should get a job with the Telegraph (pole) :)   

I'd like to see a Roman one for the day they go mad with power - then you could do a missing Forum :)

Or the old woman whos;e dress falls off because of a missing thread..

@Bunyip, thanks for sharing the Yatoon - the  texture on that wall really sings ! 

@wgdjohn  thanks :) sorry yes the last one is  the ink one - it's 'pen and ink crosss hatch ' filter

the topaz things are photoshop plugins - they work with photoshop elements luckily 

they are very good, it's a matter of using them at low opacity then building one upon the other I think, the effects give you a reasonable amount of control - google topaz labs :) they have a test drive for them too

Bunyip02

Alien visitor - Filter Forge Watercolour filter.

 

wgdjohn

Kewl,  I'm going to have to experiment with some of the 10k+ filters available to me.

Diomede

Bunyip, I love your different NPR styles.  Each has its own look.  Can't wait to see more. 

Bunyip02

wgdjohn said:

Kewl,  I'm going to have to experiment with some of the 10k+ filters available to me.

In Filter Forge, when you click on Filter Library: Download more filters it will take you to the Filter Forge homepage.

From there click on All Filters by Category

Then click on Creative in the Effect Filters section.

Load the ones that are of interest to you.

Bunyip02

Diomede said:

Bunyip, I love your different NPR styles.  Each has its own look.  Can't wait to see more. 

Thanks Diomede

I am still experimenting with the different formats and styles, seems best results also depend on the items that are in the render.

Regards, Bunyip

Bunyip02

Another one.

SubDragon - Filter Forge Chinaware Painting filter.

 

Bunyip02

Skippy & Joey - Filter Forge Paint HDRtist filter

 

wgdjohn

Bunyip,  I'd bought Filter Forge mainly for it Seamless Texture feature. Little did I know... it had Effects filters... thanks for pointing that out.

Bunyip02

wgdjohn said:

Bunyip,  I'd bought Filter Forge mainly for it Seamless Texture feature. Little did I know... it had Effects filters... thanks for pointing that out.

wgdjohn, you're welcome, lots of filters to explore at Filter Forge.

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2296391/#Comment_2296391

Bunyip02

Apatosaurus https://www.daz3d.com/apatosaurusdr

Toon! part III filter

 

 

Headwax

Nice work Bunyip, must say I really like those last two filter forge effects. thanks for the headsup on those!

Bunyip02

head wax said:

Nice work Bunyip, must say I really like those last two filter forge effects. thanks for the headsup on those!

Thanks Headwax. I am also finding that if I use larger size renders say 1600 pixels instead of 800 pixels width then I get better results with some of the Filter Forge filters.

Headwax

thanks, well I usually render around 3000 pixels so that's interesting

there's a chap (?) doing a thread on making animie character renders in Carrara  who recommends  Filter Forge Plugin named Vibrance , so I'll just jot that here for future reference (I don't like animie ;) )