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Yes, I think I understand that, but as I mentioned, I ALSO organize my zip files by character or type of item.
I do appreciate your feedback, honestly. Nothing I'm hearing makes me think this will work for me or for a lot of others. MAYBE if I was new and ONLY used DS and only used things that have metadata or was willing to create my own, but those of us who have things set up certain ways will not find this useful.
I guess what I'd like to know is whether Daz can PLEASE start having notices when items are updated for those of us who will choose NOT to use DIM at all? It just is not going to work in everyone's workpath.
I wonder how that would work. I mean – if you choose to delete the ZIP files after install, how can you re-install the installed stuff afterwards? You install Mil4 stuff, delete the ZIPs, then uninstall everything again and install V4, M4, K4 separately into different directories, all that without re-downloading anything? But when you deleted the ZIPs right after the initial install, you do not have the source files (deleted) from which you could install the uninstalled stuff, or not? If you delete the zips, you will have to redownload. When you uninstall products they will automatically show back up in the "Ready to Download" tab if you deleted them. Pick the products, pick the destination and push the button. :)
If you burned the zips onto DVD's then you can pull them off the DVDs and drop them right back into the download directory.
Except that that's not quite the case. If I move the files before the first time I open DS after installing and run the Metadata installer, then it will still find them and accept them as the "correct" install location, because the metadata hasn't been written yet.
If I move it after the metadata has been written, then yes, it's broken and needs fixing.
So with the Installer automatically writing the metadata, it creates more work for me, since I now have no chance to move things before the Metadata is written.
I am not quite sure I get it. Are you saying that when you install stuff with the Install Manager, that it automaticaly creates metadata? Or that for every product that has been converted to ZIP, metadata was created during conversion and is now part of the ZIP file? At a minimum, all products that have been converted to zip have a product entry into the database so it will show up in the product list. (Some have referred to it as Mini-Metadata.)
If you use the Content Library in Studio, instead of the OS, to move the files, the CMS is updated.
I am not an expert, but if we would be able to somehow produce such a XML file for items we installed manually, then the Install Manager would know they are installed (although it did not install them itself), right? So this could be a way to go for those who want to install manually but are afraid that they would not get notices about updates afterwards. They would not even need to really install the item, just to produce this XML file and put it in the Manifests folder.
I am not sure how hard or easy it would be for some clever head (and there are many in this forum) to create some script or small utility that could create such XML file for a zipped item. But I guess it could be possible, or not?
This is a thing I'd like to know too (I also asked it somewhere above ...!). I suspect the answer will be to pick the DS-specific items and install them into your DS-specific location, ditto with Poser. What I am not sure about is those products that have both a Poser install AND a DS 'add-on'.
At this point, my concern about how the DIM handles metadata has been redefined.
If I create a temporary directory to install to with the DIM, with the intention of deleting it so that I've got my old stuff covered, how is the DIM Metadata going to interact with my existing Metadata. If it's just duplicates, then when I've deleted the temporary install, cleaning up abandoned links should be enough, right? (If the answer still has to wait until tomorrow, that's fine.)
If you use the Content Library in Studio, instead of the OS, to move the files, the CMS is updated.
I've always found that very clunky and awkward compared to using the OS.
I am not an expert, but if we would be able to somehow produce such a XML file for items we installed manually, then the Install Manager would know they are installed (although it did not install them itself), right? So this could be a way to go for those who want to install manually but are afraid that they would not get notices about updates afterwards. They would not even need to really install the item, just to produce this XML file and put it in the Manifests folder.
I am not sure how hard or easy it would be for some clever head (and there are many in this forum) to create some script or small utility that could create such XML file for a zipped item. But I guess it could be possible, or not?
Its possible. It wouldn't be officially supported but its possible. A key piece of information in that file is the MD5 check sum of the installing zip, so you need the physical zip to make the manifest file. If you have the physical zip file, you could just install it and then you'd have the manifest.
Oh stop with the condescension. It's not the space, it's the possible corruption and extra work. The fewer files in the db and the fewer I, as the user, might mess up the better. So if I don't want ALL of the metadata I get NONE and have to enter from scratch for my current installed 44 gigs of Genesis and DS4 stuff.
DAZ seems to be turning into Microsoft with the one-size-fits-all stuff. Now I'm not even sure it will be beneficial to use as a downloader only.
No if you are concerned about corruption of the database you back it up. The tools to do that are in DS.
What about the extra work? I had two concerns, you answered one. I'd rather get the metadata than start from scratch. Do you have any suggestions? You said the installers install metadata directly to the database. Do the installers also place the metadata in the runtime/support folders for reimportation?
If that's the case than I (and da Water Rat) can export the database prior to installing a batch, then clear the database, import the export, and delete the runtime/support entries in runtimes other than the default library. That's extra work too but absent some type of choice at install time it's better than nothing.
I mean, there's got to be a way other than all or nothing.
This is a thing I'd like to know too (I also asked it somewhere above ...!). I suspect the answer will be to pick the DS-specific items and install them into your DS-specific location, ditto with Poser. What I am not sure about is those products that have both a Poser install AND a DS 'add-on'.In a simple case, if your Runtime is in your Content Directory, (The default set up.) then the stuff that belongs in runtime will be in runtime, the stuff that belongs outside runtime will be outside runtime. Nothing special to do here. Check everything and push the button. It only gets slightly more complicated if you want to put some things in one content directory path and other things in a different content directory path.
It will make duplicates, you'll see a (2) next to the duplicated items. If you're planning to blow away the folder, map it in Studio first. Then delete it with the Os. Finally un-map it in Studio. If you un-map a folder in Studio 4.5 that no longer exists on the system it will remove all the file links in that folder from the CMS.
No if you are concerned about corruption of the database you back it up. The tools to do that are in DS.
What about the extra work? I had two concerns, you answered one. I'd rather get the metadata than start from scratch. Do you have any suggestions? You said the installers install metadata directly to the database. Do the installers also place the metadata in the runtime/support folders for reimportation?
If that's the case than I (and da Water Rat) can export the database prior to installing a batch, then clear the database, import the export, and delete the runtime/support entries in runtimes other than the default library. That's extra work too but absent some type of choice at install time it's better than nothing.
I mean, there's got to be a way other than all or nothing.
Yes, it does place the metadata properly to reimport it. The only potential issue, as I mentioned above, is I am not sure how the fixes that were done to some of the zip files during conversion will affect a straight import of userdata. Perhaps Chris can field that if he is still paying attention. :) (Since he was the person I was going to ask first Tomorrow morning. :) )
It will make duplicates, you'll see a (2) next to the duplicated items. If you're planning to blow away the folder, map it in Studio first. Then delete it with the Os. Finally un-map it in Studio. If you un-map a folder in Studio 4.5 that no longer exists on the system it will remove all the file links in that folder from the CMS.
Thanks. That should be a workable solution for being able to take advantage of the DIM without having to re-build everything. And I only have to be careful moving forward with Updates. (and keep my eye out for updates when doing the temp directory. ) Do the Zips have version numbers, so I can update anything I may have missed without having to do a total rebuild? :)
No if you are concerned about corruption of the database you back it up. The tools to do that are in DS.
What about the extra work? I had two concerns, you answered one. I'd rather get the metadata than start from scratch. Do you have any suggestions? You said the installers install metadata directly to the database. Do the installers also place the metadata in the runtime/support folders for reimportation?
If that's the case than I (and da Water Rat) can export the database prior to installing a batch, then clear the database, import the export, and delete the runtime/support entries in runtimes other than the default library. That's extra work too but absent some type of choice at install time it's better than nothing.
I mean, there's got to be a way other than all or nothing.
Yes, it does place the metadata properly to reimport it. The only potential issue, as I mentioned above, is I am not sure how the fixes that were done to some of the zip files during conversion will affect a straight import of userdata. Perhaps Chris can field that if he is still paying attention. :) (Since he was the person I was going to ask first Tomorrow morning. :) )
If the file is still where the file was, then the re-import of the user metadata will associate the user data. If the file has moved it will have issues.
Thanks. That should be a workable solution for being able to take advantage of the DIM without having to re-build everything. And I only have to be careful moving forward with Updates. (and keep my eye out for updates when doing the temp directory. ) Do the Zips have version numbers, so I can update anything I may have missed without having to do a total rebuild? :)
When Install Manager pulls down a zip it writes a little xml file next to that zip that lists a GUID. That GUID is the MD5 hash of the zip and its version number. Install manger will tell you its an update. When in the Ready to Install section there is a context menu option on the product to see a listing of the files in the installer before it insalls. The online docs going forward should also list what the update was for.
Thanks. That should be a workable solution for being able to take advantage of the DIM without having to re-build everything. And I only have to be careful moving forward with Updates. (and keep my eye out for updates when doing the temp directory. ) Do the Zips have version numbers, so I can update anything I may have missed without having to do a total rebuild? :)
When Install Manager pulls down a zip it writes a little xml file next to that zip that lists a GUID. That GUID is the MD5 hash of the zip and its version number. Install manger will tell you its an update. When in the Ready to Install section there is a context menu option on the product to see a listing of the files in the installer before it insalls. The online docs going forward should also list what the update was for.
So if I have (currently, not after I start using the DIM) missed that something updated from, say, version 1.1 to version 1.3, that will be reflected somewhere so I can install it where it goes, rather than to the Temp Directory?
When Install Manager pulls down a zip it writes a little xml file next to that zip that lists a GUID. That GUID is the MD5 hash of the zip and its version number. Install manger will tell you its an update. When in the Ready to Install section there is a context menu option on the product to see a listing of the files in the installer before it insalls. The online docs going forward should also list what the update was for.
So if I have (currently, not after I start using the DIM) missed that something updated from, say, version 1.1 to version 1.3, that will be reflected somewhere so I can install it where it goes, rather than to the Temp Directory?
Once Install Manager thinks it is installed it will tell you of any further updates. It can't tell you about updates for a product before it download/installed it. But after that, it will tell you an update is ready, potentially skipping version to the most recent if its been a while since you checked.
Once Install Manager thinks it is installed it will tell you of any further updates. It can't tell you about updates for a product before it download/installed it. But after that, it will tell you an update is ready, potentially skipping version to the most recent if its been a while since you checked.
You're still missing my question.
According to the "Updated Genesis Products" thread, Anubis is at version 1.8. the last version I have is 1.6
Is there a way to tell that that the latest Version is 1.8 before I install it? Obviously, it won't know that 1.8 is an update for me, but can I tell what version number I'm installing before I install it? It can be either on the zip or the xml file by the Zip, it doesn't have to be in the DIM (though that would be easiest, obviously)
My plan right now is not to rebuild all my directories, but in small batches to download and install whatever the DIM finds in my account to a temporary directory, so that it can know that I have these products installed, and then moving forward use it (depending on how my experience with the temp directory went) to install updates and new products. However, if I come across any product updates I wasn't aware of, I want to install them where they go in the initial install phase.
Please forgive my snippiness. It's been a rough several months for everyone, not just this one customer. Frankly I just want to get back to rendering and don't want to worry about files, metadata, installing, updates, the store, the new forums or anything else that has gotten in the way of the joy of Studio for a while now.
This, too, shall pass.
I also know, that if there is a downside, and I don't know that there is one, it is potentially outweighed by the upside of every product that Install Manager Installs now has, at the minimum, a product entry in the database. So you gain a bunch of metadata already done for you.
I don't know about the rest, but personally I have no clue what "straight port of user data" refers to. But I do know, that since I don't use MetaData, nothing could make up for the loss of my beloved categories.
With the info that Spooky and Chris have revealed and questions answered, it always brings up more questions. Look at it this way you two, at least there are those of us that are deciding to go ahead with this and can help others then questions come up. Every conceivable one we ask that is of personal need or interest will more than likely get remembered. I can only imagine how much work this must have been and then to turn around and spend this much time answering question after question, some very similar to others already asked.
With that Chris mentioned something about Advanced options.
So with my set up, as I've stated, I split my clothing up, male, female, shared and fantasy for Genesis. It's easier for ME to find what I need either through the Content Manager or through the OS (as Chris puts it). I DON'T use DS to move items so I'm sure that's part of the issue with metadata and why I don't see allot of content in the Smart Content area but Oh well, perhaps someone will come up with a very slick way to fix all that eventually. My question is that if I want to keep my sub categories under Clothing & Characters (skins) it seems there is actually a way to point the DIM to those directories and then it will be logged correctly? I'm wondering if there is an advanced option to tell it to overwrite what it finds in those directories so it's logged perfectly??
Nope. Still not my question. I don't usually have this much trouble making myself clear, sorry.
Will the DIM or the Zips or the XML files tell me the product version number it has just downloaded? Obviously it's going to be the latest one, but is there a way to know what that version number is before I install it?
For example, I use the DIM to download Anubis. Is the file name Anubis.Zip with an Xml file labeled 1.8 in a way I can see it, Or is the Zip Anubis-1.8.zip, or do I have to open up the readme and hope that is finished and up to date? Or am I going to have to cross reference with various User threads?
Nope. Still not my question. I don't usually have this much trouble making myself clear, sorry.
Will the DIM or the Zips or the XML files tell me the product version number it has just downloaded? Obviously it's going to be the latest one, but is there a way to know what that version number is before I install it?
For example, I use the DIM to download Anubis. Is the file name Anubis.Zip with an Xml file labeled 1.8 in a way I can see it, Or is the Zip Anubis-1.8.zip, or do I have to open up the readme and hope that is finished and up to date? Or am I going to have to cross reference with various User threads?
No neither the zips nor the files that support them have a version number. They have a GUID which is the version number but they are not sequential as much as a unique id.
That is indeed a comforting thought, RAMWolff, and your help will be greatly appreciated. I personally fully intend to try it out but at this point, it does sound somewhat daunting.
Not at this time.
Now if you had a different runtime for each of the things you mentioned, and then left the files in place as they were dropped it would work, But otherwise you need to update the things tracking the file manually, so like the metadata file, the manifest, etc etc. Just like you manually moved the files.
You could manually reorganize the zip and the manifest in it, but again I can't guarantee the results if you do.
No neither the zips nor the files that support them have a version number. They have a GUID which is the version number but they are not sequential as much as a unique id.
So my options are:
1) Hope that the Readme is up to date, and has the version number
2) cross reference with the User threads
3) Install to a temp directory and compare things, then re-install manually over the existing install if the new one is different
4) Install over the existing install and hope for the best
If I didn't know better, I'd think you actually were trying to force me to rebuild my runtimes. :)
I don't know about the rest, but personally I have no clue what "straight port of user data" refers to. But I do know, that since I don't use MetaData, nothing could make up for the loss of my beloved categories.Basically if you have userdata if you can apply your userdata to the new directory instead of the old one. According to Chris, you should be able to.