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Which means I might as well not bother with the Install Manager. The extra download control will be nice to have, but the install functions will only succeed in messing up my heavily customised content organisation system that's worked for me since the long-ago days of D|S1. And from the sound of other exchanges in this and other threads, I'm not the only one in this situation.Nobody has said mess up your carefully customized Runtime. In fact I stated install to a new Directory
Using either Poser 9/2012's database, or DAZ3D's CMS (or both) there is no real reason to go through all that trouble moving things around to organize a content directory. In fact if you are using those databases, it is much easier to use content than any method you can use to organize your content by moving folders around. That is why those database systems were designed. Install Manager gives you the option to easily try the other way. :)
Try it, you may be pleasantly surprised.
Using either Poser 9/2012's database, or DAZ3D's CMS (or both) there is no real reason to go through all that trouble moving things around to organize a content directory. In fact if you are using those databases, it is much easier to use content than any method you can use to organize your content by moving folders around. That is why those database systems were designed. Install Manager gives you the option to easily try the other way. :)
Try it, you may be pleasantly surprised.
That might be fine if all you had ever installed was content from the Daz Store....but I know there is no way I am going to dig through all of my Runtimes to just find what is a Daz product....what is not....what's an old site freebie....what's still in my order history...then find all of the various paths for the given content...then after figuring out what would have to go...uninstall all of it by hand (because I never ever installed those uninstallers).... then reinstall everything with the manager...
OMG...
It would just not be practical.... and would be such a HUGE chore I can not even imagine it....
Using either Poser 9/2012's database, or DAZ3D's CMS (or both) there is no real reason to go through all that trouble moving things around to organize a content directory. In fact if you are using those databases, it is much easier to use content than any method you can use to organize your content by moving folders around. That is why those database systems were designed. Install Manager gives you the option to easily try the other way. :)
Try it, you may be pleasantly surprised.
Firstly...I am really interested in trying this. But I'm not really sure what you mean by the above statement.
I tend to use the Category view for the Content Library. Do you mean that the install manager stops you from moving folders from within DS and is better than being able to create your own categories?
or are you referring to manual moving of the actual folders in Windows Explorer?
If you mean the second option...I would agree.
If I can get the CMS to work on my system, I'd be more than pleasantly surprised. You did know, I hope, that some people can't use the CMS? I'm one of them — if I have the CMS installed, then D|S will not run. This means my manual content organisation that I've used for years and am perfectly comfortable and confident using, is the only way to go for me. I'll be happy to use the download features of the new program, but as for the rest, I see no need to throw away a working organisation system.
Well, here's where the promise may not be necessarily as good as the reality. I gave metadata a chance for all my Genesis content. All of it. I didn't touch a thing, processed all the metadata and used the Smart Content tab. Well, the metadata is only as good as the person who set it up for any specific product. I was missing things or they were misplaced. I swore I had more poses than it ever showed me. When I installed all of Hiro 5's stuff in one go one evening then went to play with him I discovered for sure that stuff was missing and not accessible from the Smart Content tab. Then hunting for the items in a folder where clothing is listed mostly by vendor name was maddening with over 100 folders to go through. Some body mats I only found a couple of days later.
(So, the other night I spent a couple of hours re-organizing the People/Genesis/Poses folder and now I can find anything I want according to figure it was made for. Snap)
So, what's the difference in effort between discovering problems then repairing metadata and organizing content by hand?
Which brings me to an important question for me. I would still be willing to use metadata for Genesis if there are improvements while not feeling it necessary for the rest of my 5445 purchased items from DAZ and an equivalent number from elsewhere...I find it simpler for backup purposes to have separate runtimes for Gen3, Scenes-Props, M4, V4, K4 and Hair.
Does the installer know which files are Genesis including the textures for Genesis items? So I'd be sure to get those installed into my main content library and other files elsewhere?
There is only one desktop icon. Each time if you've checked 'yes', it just replaces it. It's a shortcut to the store. So no worries.
BTW I have already done the DAZ3D store part of it, to the extent that the content is done, and it took less than a day, and I wasn't sitting at the computer while it worked. I haven't done the rest of it since the DAZ3D store isn't quite done yet. I expect the content bought at other stores to take a day, maybe a weekend.
Then it is just a question of adding metadata, where needed. Obviously I expect that to take a little longer, but I can start with the stuff I use most, much of that already has metadata, and add more as I use the content.
It is significantly easier than you are used to, but you can't truly understand that until you can try it for yourself.
Well, here's where the promise may not be necessarily as good as the reality. I gave metadata a chance for all my Genesis content. All of it. I didn't touch a thing, processed all the metadata and used the Smart Content tab. Well, the metadata is only as good as the person who set it up for any specific product. I was missing things or they were misplaced. I swore I had more poses than it ever showed me. When I installed all of Hiro 5's stuff in one go one evening then went to play with him I discovered for sure that stuff was missing and not accessible from the Smart Content tab. Then hunting for the items in a folder where clothing is listed mostly by vendor name was maddening with over 100 folders to go through. Some body mats I only found a couple of days later.
(So, the other night I spent a couple of hours re-organizing the People/Genesis/Poses folder and now I can find anything I want according to figure it was made for. Snap)
So, what's the difference in effort between discovering problems then repairing metadata and organizing content by hand?
Which brings me to an important question for me. I would still be willing to use metadata for Genesis if there are improvements while not feeling it necessary for the rest of my 5445 purchased items from DAZ and an equivalent number from elsewhere...I find it simpler for backup purposes to have separate runtimes for Gen3, Scenes-Props, M4, V4, K4 and Hair.
Does the installer know which files are Genesis including the textures for Genesis items? So I'd be sure to get those installed into my main content library and other files elsewhere?
The system is designed to define your own metadata. It is quite easy to do. Just make sure you save your work often and back it up, because rule number one of databases is databases get corrupted. (Which is why we have all those tools included. :) ) The only person that can make your stuff properly organized, so it makes sense to use for you, is you.
If I can get the CMS to work on my system, I'd be more than pleasantly surprised. You did know, I hope, that some people can't use the CMS? I'm one of them — if I have the CMS installed, then D|S will not run. This means my manual content organisation that I've used for years and am perfectly comfortable and confident using, is the only way to go for me. I'll be happy to use the download features of the new program, but as for the rest, I see no need to throw away a working organisation system.Do you have a link to the bug report for that please?
There is only one desktop icon. Each time if you've checked 'yes', it just replaces it. It's a shortcut to the store. So no worries.
Thanks for the answer. I was wondering how people managed if they just let the installers do their thing.
I suspect what I will do is test it out with a few downloads and then rearrange and rename the folders to suit me. That way I can have my file system and still use the programs ability to check for updates. Hopefully the program keeps track of what it installs and does not go back and check to see if it can find the files later.
Using either Poser 9/2012's database, or DAZ3D's CMS (or both) there is no real reason to go through all that trouble moving things around to organize a content directory. In fact if you are using those databases, it is much easier to use content than any method you can use to organize your content by moving folders around. That is why those database systems were designed. Install Manager gives you the option to easily try the other way. :)
Try it, you may be pleasantly surprised.
Emphasis mine. I have tried the Content manager, and I respectfully disagree.
Especially if you haven't been doing it to date, and have a large runtime (or multiple runtimes) to organize. The default categories are of no use to me, I'm constantly re-writing metadata to better suit my needs, and getting everything organized into categories that do work is a daunting task, to say the least.
I tried re-building a Gen 3 runtime just after the Gen 3 Clones came out, using just the content manager/metadata to organize things (I wasn't able to keep up with organizing Genesis Content), and leaving the installs alone. It's a complete mess in the content library, and I only have about two dozen products in there, to the point where even getting started with that little feels like an exercise in masochism. And I'm fairly proficient at organizing databases. It's slow, tedious work that, in my experience, doesn't actually improve my workflow enough to justify the time it would take to get things the way I want using categories, when I find just moving folders around is noticeably faster.
The only use I have for the Content Manager is that Smart Content won't work without categories, so I may as well create them while I'm making my Metadata, or fixing metadata that had to be moved either due to installation error on my part, or poor setup on the installer's part. And the only use I have for Smart Content is finding textures.
I say all this because once again, I feel I need to emphasize that what works for some isn't what works for all. I tried the Content Manager, I don't like it. I am now more willing to try the DIM, since I don't have to install to a clean runtime. I may find that the DIM is useful for installs going forward, but I'm still not likely to re-download and re-install entire runtimes just to get the DIM to acknowledge my entire purchase history. It's just too much work for (from what I've seen, and I have looked at the documentation) not enough reward.
You want to make a tool that I will use? That I will jump for joy at? How about a database editor where I don't have to go folder by folder. Maybe then reorganizing Metadata and categories will be worth my time.
I haven't bug reported it, because I can get on perfectly well without the CMS, Smart Content, or any sort of categorisation. I just use the plain vanilla Content Library tab.
"Down" to Victoria 4...but new products continue to come out as installers rather than zip files. I'd say it will be a while before the DIM is ready to go. I mentioned this a few times quite a while ago...continuing to release new products as installers rather than zips has made extra work for DAZ3D. Now that has caught up with DAZ3D, and bitten you. Within this past week, new products were still being released as installers rather than zips.
Dana
You could have a thousand jpgs named "gold", "reflection" or whatever, it doesn't matter as long as they aren't going into a folder with the same name.
Coldrake
You've been following this thread, right? Did you just jump in when you saw my name show up? If not, you'll remember that there are some that were saying they do their own categorizing, and put, for example, all V4 SkimpWear in one folder named V4 SkimpWear. That is what I called a generic folder.
Dana
When dealing with that ISO spec in a business, they have to make assumptions that something might not work based on past experience. They lose their certification if they just trust something before seeing it for themselves and it backfires on them.
We were told that new products would have the ReadMe documents here, online. I've already had a few that, at the end of installation, with View Readme checked, sent me to an error page...the doc was not there. So, if it has already happened with software from this site, the assumption must be made that it might happen again.
Dana
Yes, at the Content Library level, not in the "structure" folders. (Geometry, textures, etc.) And I don't put the Cr2's loosely in that folder, but put the product folder (Skimpwear #34256) as a sub folder of V4 Skimpwear.
Honestly, I didn't think that needed to be spelled out.
Yes, at the Content Library level, not in the "structure" folders. (Geometry, textures, etc.) And I don't put the Cr2's loosely in that folder, but put the product folder (Skimpwear #34256) as a sub folder of V4 Skimpwear.
Honestly, I didn't think that needed to be spelled out.
I'm no expert with DS, but I'm not a brand newbie, either. If I missed that point, don't you think that perhaps some newbies did, too? And maybe even some who aren't? Computers can't read our minds, and neither can we read one anothers' minds.
Dana
I agree with this.
It's better to have a good communication and info from the daz team then deadly silence!
I'm no expert with DS, but I'm not a brand newbie, either. If I missed that point, don't you think that perhaps some newbies did, too? And maybe even some who aren't? Computers can't read our minds, and neither can we read one anothers' minds.
Dana
The issue was about Vendors putting their products in folders under their names. In the Content Library. So when installed, it's Xena/Skimpwear #43325. That is what Belovedalia was complaining about. That is the point that I was agreeing with. It's an issue with some Poser content too. (Stonemason, for example)
Richard Hastline even said (correctly) that we were talking about the Content Library level, but I guess that got missed too.
I can get that you missed that I wasn't taking the CR2's for Skimpwear #43325 and putting them in V4 Skimpwear directly. And I do apologize for that confusion. But that isn't even what Belovedalia and I were talking about. We were saying that it's easier for us to find Skimpwear #43325 in the content library by that name than to remember that it was Xena's Skimpwear #43325, especially months
later. And it's easier for me to find Skimpwear #43325 and move it into V4 Skimpwear in my file manager too.
I missed that you were talking about the sub-structure folders until I read it later and it was far enough in the past (relatively speaking) that I didn't want to argue about it anymore, since the topic was effectively yesterday's news. Of course I wouldn't move the sub-structure folders. That's just asking for the product to break.
Question (and thank you Spooky for your patience - and for being here and answering!):
If I download everything, install to a fake runtime and then delete that fake runtime, at least the content in that folder - will the Install manager tell me then about updated products?
I want to ask one thing more...if I choose not to use the DIM as an installer, but do use it for downloading batches...will it know about product updates for items that I've downloaded with the DIM, even though I didn't use it to install them? If not, will something be done about notifying those of us who choose not to use it to install things?
Dana
One thing that is apparently not mentioned in the docs nor videos, is there an option to avoid MetaData download and installation or do we all have to deal with MetaData now? At the moment I simply avoid MetaData and the "Smart Content" like a plague.
It has been said in other threads, by those supposedly in the know, that MetaData is now included in the main product installers, and thus you get it whether you use it or not. Of course, since that was said, I've still seen products with separate MetaData installers, so I guess this isn't quite a standard yet. I don't think you have to use it, but maybe what you are hinting at is that you don't want it taking up space. That may be unavoidable. On the other hand, I have very little in the smart content tab, so maybe it's not really in very many products...or is that something else? It's getting confusing now. Smart Content, CMS, MetaData...I thought it was all related.
Dana
I am a newbie and already panicking i don´t understand half of what has been said which is my problem not yours.
I have only bought from daz and have probably 700 or more files and now i await a new laptop so my question is when this arrives am i best to reset my DAZ STUDIO download then get the DIM then let it download everything i have ever bought so it is pure or do i use the downloads i have now and transfer the folders over to the new one. Don´t be harsh with me i am new and trying my hardest to learn and just want the simplest method for me - thanks in advance
I would suggest trying it out and see if you like how it works. You can keep your current library and use this to install in a different location. If you like how it works you can delete your old library later. If you don't like what it does, then keep your old library and delete the new one.
I would suggest watching the videos linked on the first page.
I would suggest that for someone like you, faced with a new start anyway, the first option would be the best. Everyone I have talked to who has used DIM is very enthusiastic about it, and a new empty computer would be an ideal environment in which to try it out to it's fullest.
For someone like me, with 13+ years of content downloads from many different sites (including some that no longer exist) and umpteen large customised runtimes it is a much harder decision to make.
Thank you for the replies i think i will do what you both say.....try it on the old lappie with existing messed files lol then Start afresh on the new one (hey i can´t find things in the old one anyway so i don´t have alot to lose by trying. thanks again.
Those are bad news. I hate metadata and content management system with passion, and now I don't even have a choice not to download it? Will I have to install CMS to use a regular product, will it install automatically, or will I have an opportunity to delete all stupid metadata after intallation and just use my item?
All that gets added is a set of three files in the |Runtime\Support folder, one of which is copied to the RunOnce folder in the DS AppData folder so that the item gets added to the queue. Then next time you start DS you are asked if you want to add the items to the database. If the CMS isn't running nothing will change, and if you skip adding the files nothing will be added. You aren't forced to do anything with the CMS in order to use the content.
This is good to know, thanks, Richard. If I delete RunOnce folder, will it delete metadata as well?