Bot Genesis in Poser? What's your opinion?
Dream9Studios
Posts: 125
Anyone with Poser and Bot Genesis that could put up a few test renders for me? Also, what is your opinion of how well it works in Poser? I've got Poser Pro 2012 and don't use DS so it would be stupid of me to buy something that doesn't look right in my program of choice. I'm still not sure about Genesis itself in Poser yet but this thing looks too cool to pass up unless someone talks me out of it. :-)
My apologies if there is a similar thread already. I looked and couldn't find one but it is late and I'm hungover from my birthday so.....
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Hi Lizzie,
Sorry my reply is like three weeks late. However, just in case you or anyone else is still wondering about how Bot Genesis performs in Poser, I thought I would share my opinion. If you haven't bought it yet, or even if you have I would say hang tight. I've made updates that are just waiting to make it through QA, so should happen very soon.
There are two issues with the initial Poser release that needed fixing to make the Poser version worthy of comparison to the DAZ Studio version. The first is that materials for Poser were not supported (so you have to apply your own). The second is that Point At was not working properly, so little mechanical sockets in the hands and left elbow are not rotated at the right angle. Both these issues are fully resolved with the update.
Normally, these are the type of issues that we want to have ironed out before a product release. However, Bot Genesis was in development before the DSON Importer was released. And since I failed to anticipate demand for the Poser version, I hadn't put time in to the Poser side of things yet. So when Bot Genesis was released, a lot of Poser users were clamoring for Bot Genesis in Poser, and DAZ felt it was best to give Poser users something to play with until a seriously improved update was ready. Not Ideal, I know but the best we could do at the time.
Next, I'll post a couple of before (the update) and after shots. So you can get a better idea of what I mean.
Here are a couple shots of what you get when you first load in Poser Pro 2012 before the update.
And, here is a default load after the update. One important thing to note about matching materials is that to get the best possible results in a variety of conditions, I started by matching the environments as best I could. To do this I replaced the default Poser lighting in the scene with a single infinite light mounted to the camera (to match Daz Studio's default) and disabled gamma correction (Render > Render Settings > Firefly tab > uncheck Gamma correction) since DS doesn't do gamma correction on materials.
Will this update have any changes that affect Studio users, Parris?
Thanks
For Studio users, Bot Genesis will work the same as before. However, I definitely am improving the ReadMe to make it easier for folks to know the best ways to make adjustments. Here's what I'm putting in so far:
"To Apply partial mats created for V4 (Genesis default UVs) to Bot Genesis:
1. In the Scene tab, select the Figures that you want to apply materials to (you may need to expand Genesis to see Mechanical figures that are parented to it).
2. In the Surfaces tab, select the surfaces in each figure that you want to apply the materials to.
3. In the Content Library tab, hold down Ctrl while double left clicking on the icon for the material you want to apply.
4. In the Material Preset Load Options dialog, choose "Selected" fron the Surfaces dropdown then click the Accept button.
To adjust mechanical joints depending on your character size or to avoid poke-through with certain poses:
1. Scale it: In the Parameters tab under Actor or Mechanical Joints, slide the Scale Mechanical ... dial to the right or left to make the joint and socket larger or smaller.
2. Move it: Alternatively for poke through issues, you can select the specific mechanical prop that is parented to a mechanical figure in the Scene tab (expand Genesis and the figure) then translate the prop using either the Universal Tool or the Translate tool."
Credit and thanks to Czexana for the partial mat tip. Also, Bot Genesis is something that I plan to continue to improve and make addons for, so more is coming.
Great to hear there will be addons for it!
Actually, there is one change that was made in Studio. When you load Bot Genesis figures individually or all at once (BotGen_All) they will load parented to Genesis. This will make cleanup a lot easier, say if you want to delete Bot Genesis from a Scene. It will also make it so that future material presets can be applied to all the Bot Genesis figures, props and Genesis at the same time.
Sweet. Thats very well thought out Parris.
Thank you for the up comming update! :)
Thanks, Matty. Actually, I can't take credit for the parenting idea. Josh Darling (king of QA) made the parenting changes in response to a tip from Chris Jones (one of Studio's key developers).
What I did manage to contribute was work out a manual hack to work around a Point At bug in the DSON Importer that was messing up the orientation of those little joint sockets in the hands (in Poser). Also, since I learned how to make node spaghetti in the Poser Material Room before I ever learned about Shader Mixer in Studio, it was actually easier to do pretty good Poser equivalents for the materials. Perfect matches might not be possible but these are pretty darn close, I think.:)
Anyway, being able to interact more with DAZ's experts (than in the old days) and learn from them really helps!
Question: are those updates through QA?
The Readme still shows it at last updated 2013-01-23 - version 1.1
No, it hasn't happened quite yet. Maybe they got swamped with March Madness stuff. Should be very soon though. I hope, I hope, I hope...
Oh.
Could you nudge them?
A little bit?
Parris, instead of adjusting the read me, how about a "how to" pdf that explains in more detail?
Right now, I'm at a complete loss how to have just an arm in teh silver, as a bot arm. I'm completely lost, and don't know the difference between the different MATS that are included.
Yes,please help us figure this out! You assume we know too much. An illustrated step by step guide about how to get the combined skin and metal look of the promo face images would be very useful. I can't figure out how to divide between skin and metal along the seam lines that are on the attachments.
Edited to add: I'm using DS 4.5.1.56
Hi All,
I'm very sorry that some of you are having difficulty getting Bot Genesis to work the way you want or the way it looks in the promos. I just found out yesterday that the Poser side of the product has another thing that needs to be fixed. Since the DSON Importer for Poser is still a relatively new product, there are still things that pop up that no one knows how to immediately fix, and this is one of those issues. The fix will likely need to be a manual hack, and I'm going to start hacking ASAP so maybe the update will still be released very soon.
Anyway, the point is that the update won't be released until it passes QA. I don't want folks who just need further instruction to have to wait, so I'm going to work on a good post today and try to answer your questions in the clearest way I can come up with. In the mean time, it may be helpful to take a look at the post above, where I quote from the readme that is coming. There are also some helpful tips and explanations from other users in this thread.
There are some limitations explained in there too, that have to do with UVs and material zones. Those of you that are not familiar with how those technologies work may have expectations about how Bot Genesis should work, that the technology in Studio or Poser doesn't yet allow. For instance making Geo-grafted figures that support the default material zones and UVs present in Genesis (so that you can apply any V4 texture) means I can't add material zones wherever I like. I have to work with the material zones that are present in the Genesis figure. So there are some skin to metal combinations that you may imagine which may only be possible with a texture and shader combination for Bot Genesis that I haven't made yet. That will be my next product, I promise.
In any case, please know that it is not my intention to make any assumptions about what you do or don't know, or leave you in the dark. Sometimes it is just harder than you might think to anticipate in advance what is not obvious and also what people will want to do as they take their own imagination in directions I never would have thought of. It's really cool to see what folks are doing with this!
Here is a specific problem I'm having. I am trying to use the ray traced reflections. I am using DS 4.5.1.56. I installed 15588_BotGenesis_1.1_trx.exe. My render shows that the hands, nipples, and part of the neck did not get the ray trace material applied.The outer edge of the "ear" doesn't look like it was ray traced either. What did I do wrong to cause those areas to not get ray traced reflections?
These are the steps I performed:
1) Load basic Genesis female
2) Select Genesis in the scene tab
3) Double click BotGen_All,duf in the Content Library
4) Select Genesis and all 14 Bot_Gen attachments in the Scene tab
5) Double Click BotGen_TraceMat.duf in the Content Library
6) Load a 360 degree environment with UE and distant lighting so I have something to reflect (green leafy environment selected to make reflections obvious)
7) Render with 3Delight, Max Ray trace Depth 2
Barbult - Ok, yes I see. I did a test on my end. For the nipples, it looks like the Trace setup is missing from the shader. So sorry about that. Without the update (not yet released), the quickest fix for that would be to select the 2_SkinTorso surface in the Surfaces tab, then in the Shader Mixer tab select File>Import From Scene. BotMetal will then be the active shader in Shader Mixer. Next, select the Nipple surface and click the Apply button in Shader Mixer.
For the other areas where ray trace materials didn't get applied, there are material presets in your Content Library that should fix that in People>Genesis>Materials>Bot Genesis. So for the hands, head and torso, look for the ray trace material preset that matches the figure. For example, the ray trace preset for the left hand would be BotGen_Trace_LHand.duf
Got it! Thanks.
Great. Nice render and thanks for reporting back.
For those of you still following this thread, I have new progress to report for the update of Bot Genesis. It's taken months particularly because an obscure bug in Poser was found to be the cause of the issue mentioned earlier. Specifically this an issue in Poser where the mechanical hand fingers get all mangled. This happens when you have any hand figure (such as gloves or geografts), a prop parented to one of the hand figure's fingers with a character morph applied to Genesis. So as you can imagine, the issue doesn't come up much (my product might be the only example). Since it involves Poser itself (a Smith Micro product), DAZ developers can't just fix the bug. Fortunately though, they finally developed a workaround, but it took a lot of testing, trial and error on all our parts to get to this point. I'm applying the fix to both hands and wrapping up the update this week. So the update should be released soon.
Looking forward to it!
Yes, in a matter of speaking. I posted detailed how to answers to various questions (yours and others) in the threads where the questions were asked. But I didn't post it in a single new thread like I had originally planned.
Be sure to check where you have posted questions about Bot Genesis, to be certain you have seen my answers. Are there still things you have questions about that I have not answered?
In any case it may still be good to post a thread of my own, to put them all in one place. But I may still make a PDF, even though a good number of the answers should be in the DAZ Studio Documentation (as they aren't really specific to this product).
Hi,
Bot Genesis is a great product. However, I am still fighting with the hands in Poser. The hands themselves appear to conform ok, but the joints in the fingers just do not seem to want to follow. I recently saw an update in the DAZ install manager and installed it. However, the problem with the hands is still there. I.e., there are a few exceptions where it works but for most shapes / morphs that involve the hands, the mechanical joints are still somewhere out of whack.
Do I need to follow some specific instructions for installing the update, or is the "hand"-update not out yet?
Thanks for you help. Again, it's really a very nice product - but I would like to use it in Poser with all the options I have there...
In Poser, be sure to apply a morph before you load the bot figures. This is necessary because the DSON importer can't make those adjustments to the props live. It has to happen at load time. Alternatively, you can choose _ from Scripts > DSON Support > Transfer Active Morphs. But I wouldn't take that route if you are in a hurry. Sometimes there are a boat load of active morphs and it can take several minutes to load them all.
This may seem like the same issue as the one John reported for DAZ Studio, but they have different causes.
Does my first suggestion fix the problem for you?