Commerical Products forum gone?
This discussion has been closed.
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2025 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
You can always specify a refund be applied to your card instead of issued as a store credit. I'd imagine it would be the same for PayPal (but I don't use that). I've never tried requesting that credit already issued as store credit were to be credited back to my credit card instead, but I don't think DAZ (or any store) can legally refuse to refund money to the method used to purchase a product.
Oddly enough, I can't get that image out of my head of everyone at DAZ frantically fluttering around the ceiling like bats.
I never understood why DAZ didn't simply provide two Vendor forums ... one for the DAZ PAs and a separate one for those not selling (or not able to sell) their products through DAZ. Instead, they forbade the "independent" vendors from posting their WIP/commercial posts in Commons, while the DAZ PAs could post both in Commons and the commercial forum.
Anyone with have an ounce of sense would have realized PA posts would get lost in either Commons or the commercial forum. After all, few of the PAs actually post WIP or announcements of their products. From the number of PAs who do post WIPs/announcements, I get the impression there are only about a dozen PAs still selling through DAZ. And I know that can't be true.
Although ... I have noticed the conspicuous absence of some of my favorite PAs. Apparently, they haven't released much of anything since Genesis stumbled onto the scene :(
XD
I wonder if this discussion should be split off into another thread, it's rather a far-off tangent.
I just want this repeated and I thank you for bringing it up. Let's not forget what a value DAZ is to US.
As to a new forum outside the domain of the stores, I really have no interest which remains here because this is where Studio is. The DAZ forums differ from the other store forums in that DAZ has a program to support as well as its products. If DAZ only had products like the other stores have, then maybe. But that's not the case. (Well, RDNA has support forums for Poser and excellent mods but I don't think it 'feels' the same vis-a-vis customer-user-developer interaction and CP is just a mystery to me.)
I think Genesis and Studio 4.5+ must be supported and encouraged and there must be some way it can be done here where they live.
It's likely of course that DAZ knows more than we do and has a better eye for the marketplace. It seems to me that the market is becoming oversaturated with Vicky 4 stuff. I've seen vendors turning to older figures trying to revive them. I have to be politically correct here and refrain from saying what I think about the why. Perhaps the dam will break soon.
I never git the confirmation email.
Did it get blocked as spam, maybe?
Let's get one thing sorted out now, before we all get the wrong impression...... you're not telling the story correctly at all..... Victoria 1, the Millennium Woman, derived from the Zygote Poser 4 Nude Woman figure (popularly called 'Posette'), was released in February 1999 and was the first named figure for use with Poser. At that time DAZ was a subdivision of Zygote. Metacreations hired Zygote to create Posette and Zygote used the technology from Posette to create Millie, who we know as Vicky by now. As a beta tester you should know this, so before thanking DAZ, realise that they could't have done all of this without Zygote and in the end it's still Fractal Design and Metacreations we do have to give thanks to. Let's face it...... without the huge success of Poser 4 and 4 Pro Pack, there would not be a DAZ at all. If Zygote would not have been part of the Poser development, there would be no DAZ as we know it. Vicky 1 was a huge success and without that, DAZ would have never been able to stand on it's own. If Poser would have gone into oblivion and Curious Labs hadn't stepped in DAZ would have gone bankrupt. It was Poser that expandend this 3D consumer market and without Poser's huge success, DAZ would not be where they are today. I know, most people around here love to forget that or distort history enough to make it all look differently. DAZ did and for part still does rely on the Poser community, yes, less then they used, but still..... In the end it wasn't DAZ at all, it was Poser and DAZ just rode along with the ride..... for a long time.
But.... I'm missing the whole point of your argument. Because according to you DAZ did this all, now they can do whatever they like? Or are you telling us we have no right to complain? Or are you saying we can only say positive things here?
We're sorry we didn't notice the comments on SM and the earlier Poser owners earlier, but now that we've had the two ends of the spectrum expressed let's all step away from the app/developer wars please.
CGTalk is not going to take DS seriously until DS has a quality rendering engine, pro grade animation tools, proper documentation, and an upgrade schedule in line with the rest of the industry, just to mention a few of the bigger shortcomings. I know you love DS, but honestly, it just doesn't measure up to Maya, Max, C4D, Lightwave, modo and other premier 3D studios in the ability to produce pro grade animation in a cost effective manner that the industry demands. These studios cost a grand or better for a reason, and until DS does as well, it won't have the quality tools necessary to compete at the top level. To think otherwise is a pipe dream. Daz cuts corners to hold down costs.
You can love DS all you want. No one is stopping you from doing that. But to think that Daz Studio can stand toe to heel with the big boys is simply not being realistic. It was never meant to do so, and it will never be viewed as comparable to the industry standards in any serious professional 3D circle as long as it continues to be price conscious as its primary goal.
That's the cold hard fact there!
And they are not the friendliest people I've ever meet.
Most of them are industry standard professionals.
If you can't model draw create your own stuff from scratch they just laugh at you,
and tell you to stop stealing other peoples work.
Richard, I believe it wasn't a war but a comment about how SM shut down the forums and their content selling business suffered after that. This is a relevant because DAZ3D is doing the same while depending significantly more on content sales than SM does.
3D loyalty has to my knowledge never been cited as being totally objective. The sheer amount of learning curve it requires to become proficient at any 3D studio is tremendous, and the investment required in time and energy and money builds very strong, and often very subjective points of view. People who use other 3D studios are often ridiculed and scoffed for their choices. It just comes with the territory, and you just have to grow a thicker skin if you're going to get involved.
I don't use DS, don't have it installed, don't intend on having it installed until it evolves into something much better. I'm not holding my breath, because I watched Daz being born and have watched until now, and I don't see any indication (other than lip service) that Daz ever intends on getting into top tier 3D. It has developed no market for it, it has not geared up for the effort.
I use modo 6 by choice. I love everything about it. modo has in many ways been the role model for creating the DS interface. After all, modo is the creation tool of choice at Daz. V3, V4, and Genesis meshes were developed in it. The rigging and morphing in modo is superior to Genesis/DS. AutoFit is simply the snap to command. I see no advantage in using DS in a pipeline with modo. Poser does what I need in exporting meshes for use in modo better than my experiences with DS in the past. Poser is also less volatile in its evolution as a studio, I don't dread Poser upgrades like I did with DS.
But I'm not going to laugh at anyone for using DS. I may question some people's logic in defending it in comparison to other studios. But some are not as objective as I am. One problem I see in the relationship between DS users and high tier users is that DS users don't realize just how much more demanding the learning curve is in top tier. DS is much easier to learn than Maya or Max or modo, yet many DS users assume that it's just as difficult. Making adjustments by turning dials is not nearly as difficult as making adjustments from scratch. And claiming that you're just as good using DS as they are using one of the power house studios is one of the things that makes the accomplished top tier users regard DS users as less than equitable and something to ridicule.
Again, use DS if it makes you happy. That's your reason for choosing any tool in a process. (To quote Ry Cooder, "Feeling good, feeling good, all the money in the world is spent on feeling good.") But understand that DS is not the top of the line, and you'll never get the full respect from those who choose a more demanding pathway to their joy. That's the way it is. Make your choices with open eyes, live with them.
CGTalk is not going to take DS seriously until DS has a quality rendering engine, pro grade animation tools, proper documentation, and an upgrade schedule in line with the rest of the industry, just to mention a few of the bigger shortcomings.
Actually, that is wrong.
DS does have a 'quality rendering engine' and THAT is part of the animosity/rancor. The fact that DS includes an 'industry standard' render engine that isn't 'core locked' really ruffles some feathers in the greater 'CG world'.
I'd put physics engine on that list, too.
History is so easily rewritten :P
I'd been thinking my ancient memory was failing me once again. I'm glad to see that it wasn't!
The DAZ store still remains my primary supplier of content. I just don't spend all that much money here anymore. DAZ and the DAZ PAs have never lost a sale because I purchased a similar product from an independent vendor who advertised here instead of buying the product from DAZ ... even if I did click that link and go elsewhere. I always returned here. I think it's quite likely I'm not the only one who has looked elsewhere because of a link posted on the DAZ forums, but always returned back here.
However, DAZ has lost substantial sales because they no longer provide products that interest me.
"Traffic" is only a small and deceptive part of the picture. Anyone who has read the forums over the last year should understand the majority of forum members who no longer purchase from DAZ or who have greatly reduced their spending at DAZ is because the content they/we want isn't provided anymore by DAZ. (Rewriting history is so fun, huh? It's not Genesis, it's those links taking our traffic elsewhere!)
How very hard is it to understand it's the content provided/not provided here, not the competition, that resulted in lost sales?
So, yeah. The independents are stealing from DAZ ... because they provide content DAZ doesn't. But making it harder to find those products isn't going to result in greater sales for DAZ or for the DAZ PAs.
Still, DAZ earned points with me because they offered independent vendors a place to advertise their products. Products that more often than not required the purchase of DAZ products. Products that ... quite frankly ... were sometimes more original that what is offered in the DAZ store or that DAZ had rejected as not likely to be popular enough.
It was always great to see a WIP product by an independent vendor ended up being picked up and offered in the store by DAZ. I'm sure the feedback to the WIP posted in the DAZ forum had no impact on DAZ's decision ...
Since the bottom line is important to DAZ (not saying it shouldn't be), products in the DAZ store tend to follow a formula ... much like books and movies/tv series tend to follow a format. The problem is that when you get so entrenched in following a formula, you lose a lot of creativity. You tend to resist experimentation and risk, and instead offer the same stuff you offered last month, last year, last decade.
As a customer, it gets boring fast. I'd find it hard to believe it also doesn't get boring for those producing content.
3D loyalty has to my knowledge never been cited as being totally objective. The sheer amount of learning curve it requires to become proficient at any 3D studio is tremendous, and the investment required in time and energy and money builds very strong, and often very subjective points of view. People who use other 3D studios are often ridiculed and scoffed for their choices. It just comes with the territory, and you just have to grow a thicker skin if you're going to get involved.
I don't use DS, don't have it installed, don't intend on having it installed until it evolves into something much better. I'm not holding my breath, because I watched Daz being born and have watched until now, and I don't see any indication (other than lip service) that Daz ever intends on getting into top tier 3D. It has developed no market for it, it has not geared up for the effort.
I use modo 6 by choice. I love everything about it. modo has in many ways been the role model for creating the DS interface. After all, modo is the creation tool of choice at Daz. V3, V4, and Genesis meshes were developed in it. The rigging and morphing in modo is superior to Genesis/DS. AutoFit is simply the snap to command. I see no advantage in using DS in a pipeline with modo. Poser does what I need in exporting meshes for use in modo better than my experiences with DS in the past. Poser is also less volatile in its evolution as a studio, I don't dread Poser upgrades like I did with DS.
But I'm not going to laugh at anyone for using DS. I may question some people's logic in defending it in comparison to other studios. But some are not as objective as I am. One problem I see in the relationship between DS users and high tier users is that DS users don't realize just how much more demanding the learning curve is in top tier. DS is much easier to learn than Maya or Max or modo, yet many DS users assume that it's just as difficult. Making adjustments by turning dials is not nearly as difficult as making adjustments from scratch. And claiming that you're just as good using DS as they are using one of the power house studios is one of the things that makes the accomplished top tier users regard DS users as less than equitable and something to ridicule.
Again, use DS if it makes you happy. That's your reason for choosing any tool in a process. (To quote Ry Cooder, "Feeling good, feeling good, all the money in the world is spent on feeling good.") But understand that DS is not the top of the line, and you'll never get the full respect from those who choose a more demanding pathway to their joy. That's the way it is. Make your choices with open eyes, live with them.
I guess my real point was it just isn't the place to go if you're a hobbist or just doing it for fun. Yes I've rigged in both Max and Maya they are hard to get your head around, but so is poser and DS figures and I don't mean morphs I mean stand alone models. Like you I'm a modo man and didn't learn it over night. People can have fun with DS and poser, with maya and max not so fun takes a bit to get from point A to point B. I wish people would just stick together and it's not so bad here, that all I wanted to say. Not knocking any of the Max or maya people as nearly half the stuff here is probably done in them anyway.
Imo,
Using Poser/Ds and prebuilt content should never really be compared to Creating characters / a scene in Max/Maya (in terms of the work required)
Ive always seen it as kinda like comparing an Painter to a Photographer abit, something we dont normally do because its a pretty silly comparision.
The whole point of DS and Poser is to allow people to render some nice looking (but not entirely unique) CG - with 95% of the work cut out, that is what it does by design.
Max/.Maya /C4D Artists who choose to look down their nose a Poser DS users are just being elitist to make them selves feel big.
In the CG industry, DS & Poser are a minor threat to these people (at best), so they have no real excuse besides snobbery.
And likewise: any dedicated Poser/DS Artist who belives they are on a comparable level (in terms of capabilities) as an industry experienced 3d artist, is woefully mistaken.
^All just my opinion of course.
Any chance one of the mods will answer the questions and suggestions that have been posted earlier.
Basically is daz is willing to consider alternatives such as separate non PA forums or pay-to-post?
Dedicated being the key term here.
Artists in general who believe they're on a comparable level to industry experienced 3D artists without a work pipeline that uses more than one program are likely mistaken.
TRUE! This is very true.
The issue is that people are looked down on simply because of the software they used, pipeline or not. It's being aced out of carpentry because I use a cheap Stanley hammer and not an expensive Eastwing...
I think in general, people spend way too much time worrying about what defines "Art" or "Professional" rather than just doing what they love. I never cared one iota if the fact someone creates stuff in Maya (et al) is more professional than me. Does it make them better? No lol it just makes them different. Same can be said for Art forms, whether you use postwork or not, etc.
I agree. It ought to be the end result that matters. I don't see how what most DS/Poser users do is terribly different from any other collaboration between artists.
There's a running joke that pops up every now and then wherein one DS user or another says "I'm not an artist, I'm a craftsman." Really, considering, I think it's the other way around. Tends to be craftsmen who argue about their tools, after all, and artists who argue about what gets made with them.
What a lot of people do not take into account is this: sure, DS users might be using a premade FIGURE, but when you get into building textures, building your own clothing, morphing existing clothing, fixing existing clothing... a single guy building a scene from scratch is going to take one whole heck of a long time to get anything done.
Too, there are a whole lot of Max/Maya/XSI users out there who buy their stuff on Turbosquid or elsewhere...
I think Stephen Stahlberg said it best when he said: "Why are we constantly trying to re-invent the wheel" (when it comes to figure creation)? He posted that on non other than CGTalk.
Because everyone, if they are capable, thinks their models are better than anyone else's. I think that's fair as it strokes the ego and fills the spirit with a sense of accomplishment. I know when I first started delving into making my own morphs, even though Genesis was made already, it really did all that for me. I know in my heart of hearts I don't have the patience to build a figure from scratch and rig it myself but I know now I can morph the hell out of it and make it mine. I can texture it and mate it more mine. Light it and surround it with other goodies to make the beginnings of art and then finish it in Photoshop with various layers, filters and brush strokes and yea, call it art.
People worry about what CG-guy (or whatnot) thinks because most want some kind of validation. It takes a little bit of looking inside yourself to you do your art for you. I like messing around with toons (particularly my own) because it makes me laugh or smile. There are a lot of people that don't like toons and I think it's just as hard for me to understand why they like human realism so much as it is for them to understand why I like toons so much. I can still admire their passion and work as much as I enjoy my own.
I have to admit I have more fun building than rendering too. I've always been the lego-block building type of guy.
I think you confuse self esteem with ego. Ghandi would frown on that lol
Ego is what the world thinks of you, whereas self... that is what you think. The difference is that Ego is often defined in what you project back to it, and that is generally frowned upon by society and labelled as elitism.
I don't think Im better or worse. Just different.
It seems that every time DAZ makes a "business decision" this site becomes a little less valuable to me. The very distinctions that made this site stand above the others are disappearing as they strive to be like everyone else.
I may have missed it, but are links to our webcomic and blog sites where we used content from here as well as other places permissable?
-MJ
That should be fine.
That should be fine.
Thanks!
-MJ
lol! I just got my CGtalk email confirmation.
I think lurking is DEFINATELY in order!
might model something crappy to put in my portfolio ;-P
I think you confuse self esteem with ego. Ghandi would frown on that lol
Ego is what the world thinks of you, whereas self... that is what you think. The difference is that Ego is often defined in what you project back to it, and that is generally frowned upon by society and labelled as elitism.
I don't think Im better or worse. Just different.
Ego and self esteem are tied together. Everyone likes their kitty stroked... I mean their ego stroked. Ya know? :P