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ah, but you did that one deliberately! (c'mon, we KNOW you did *grin* )
ROFL as much as Id love to claim I was that clever, sadly, I didn't even think about it. Just a happy... or hmmmm funny at least accident lol
Ever since my Shrieker released, shes added the fact I have worms to the list lol
Oh dear! :bug:
I've been trying to learn more about the DIM utility before I start messing with it but I haven't been able to find out much about it. Mainly what I'd like to know for now is how does it determine if there are updates you need? Is it based on being able to tell when you last downloaded an item or is it by looking in your Poser or Studio install at what you already have there?
It does, it will show new items and updates in two different panes in the same list, very handy. NO more searching itemized history, reset, specially when one item in a huge bundle is updated, you just cluttered your whole downloads with tons of unwanted stuff (and sometimes it was hard to figure out in which bundle item X was that you needed to update. This is a great program (I can retire my DAZBitRockRunner.app now)
It does it by storing a manifest file. This small text file includes the current version of either a) the download file or b) the installed files so you need one or the other for DIM to be aware of updates.
E.g., V4 Morphs++ manifest starts off like:
It's pretty easy to see/read all the relevant information in this and see how DIM uses the manifest to determine if it needs an update, where it is installed, etc.
Aw, you had to take the fun out of thinking that DIM just had access to a crystal ball and used that. :lol:
Greetings,
If you want to get even more precise, one of the DAZ folks explicitly confirmed that they use the ProductFileGuid as the arbiter of whether a product is 'updated' or not, ignoring other stuff like the InstallerDate. This was EXCEPTIONALLY helpful to me, because it let me manually convert content that hadn't been converted yet, like a V3 hair I picked up recently, and know that when they get to it, I'll receive an update because its PFG will be different than the one I generated.
But most folks don't need to know that, and are completely comfortable with 'it's all about the crystal ball'. :)
-- Morgan
Who me? I would never make jokes about worms or VD or nuttin like that :P I don't know what preytell you are talking about though it was PRETTY FUNNY. Right up there with DIM and LIE hehehe :)
Is it terrible I am looking at the code, figuring out how I can hack it to work with my other installers from other stores? LOL
DIM the world!!!! (Im fairly concerned I just said to turn off the sun o.O)
Who me? I would never make jokes about worms or VD or nuttin like that :P I don't know what preytell you are talking about though it was PRETTY FUNNY. Right up there with DIM and LIE hehehe :)
Nooooo of course not. Not you, oh innocent fluffeh bunneh (you may have everyone fooled, but you're not fooling meeeee :P)
Well first of all thanks to everyone for the feedback to my question so far but alas I'm still not sure if I'm understanding things properly. If I'm understanding things correctly it sounds like I would have to let the DIM download everything initially in order to establish the file that lets it know when there is an updated version to be downloaded. I was hoping this wasn't the case and that there is something tied to each individual's account that keeps track of when items were last downloaded so that I'd not have to download everything the first time to be able to recognize updates in the future. I was hoping I could just run the dim and right off the bat it would be able to identify updates based on when I last downloaded things.
For the moment I'm not really wanting to use the installer because I have come up with a highly customized runtime scheme that organizes things by individual figures and whether an item is clothing, a prop or whatever and I'm very doubtful the DIM would be able to accomodate the way I have things organized. I don't want to disturb this if I can help it because it allows me to know exactly where to find a particular item. Given that these products are the works of all sorts of independent vendors there is no defined naming structure for folders that everyone follows other then the ones necessary for proper operation of the programs. The end result being that in the pose folder for example you have folders for every figure all mixed together and many of the folders do more to identify the vendor rather then the product inside them. The way I have it I have a folder for say Michael 4 and then in that folder I have a sub folder for clothes for M4, a subfolder for characters and textures for M4 a folder for poses for M4 and so on. It takes me quite some time (months) to set up a runtime when starting from scratch because of all the folders I have to rename so what's in them is reconizable at a glance and then to place them within this organized structure of subfolders I've come up with. In the end though it greatly speeds up my work flow and prevents me from going bald from ripping my hair out in frustation trying to find something I know is in there somewhere.
Perhaps the next time I have to start from scratch I'll let the installer part of the DIM do it's thing and so based on that I'm wondering (because I have quite a few) does the DIM also handle downloading and installing Bryce and Carrara files or can it only just download those?
If I do understand things correctly and do have to let the DIM download everything at least once in order to recognized when there is an update available can anyone give me a sense of how long it would take to download everything when my itemized history is well over 3000 items big?
If you want to be informed of updates you need to download everything with DIM. That's the downside.
You can always use DIM to 'install' to a dummy directory and then move things around to your own custom layout. As long as the manifest file created at install time is available to DIM it 'knows' which version you've got on your system
As for how long -- depends on your internet connection. I'm figuring some time in April for my collection - I do my downloads at a wi-fi hotspot and only get 172 KB/sec maximum. By looking at the CSV for what I've got queued and what I've pulled down - my total is about 95 GB.
So this manifest is only created when an item is installed? If so then it's starting to look like it causes as many or more problems then it solves.
If you don't do the install, DIM tracks the downloaded files - so if an update comes for something downloaded you will see it broken out as an update on the 'ready to download tab' - and updates are always at the top of the list.
So you either keep the full installer pair (the zip and the customer manifest) or you install - and there is no problem if you would like to just pull everything down, install to a dummy directory, and then blow away the contents of the dummy directory. Dim still considers such items as 'installed'. That sets up a cleanpoint, and any updates to these items will show as updates.
Go ahead, grab a copy, and play with it. You may find that it works well for you on new content - just install to whatever work directory you use for the stand-alone installers, and go with your normal process from there.
Greetings,
So this manifest is only created when an item is installed? If so then it's starting to look like it causes as many or more problems then it solves.
It does not. It solves far more than it causes. What was described above is the best way to do it if you're looking to manage updates.
Have it do a one-time download of EVERYTHING, install to a temporary directory, delete that directory, burn the ZIPped installers off to a Blu-Ray or something (or just delete the downloaded zips) and from then on, you'll get notifications of product updates. You install them to a temporary directory like you did the first time, except now you'll move them by hand to the location you prefer to have them.
Or, if you're matching the normal directory structure, just with different top-level directories, you can set up a list of 'target install' directories, and batch items that are to be installed to that particular directory.
It's crazy flexible in that regards. Myself, I don't move content, and I use the single monolithic directory. So I pointed it at my existing content tree, and let it overwrite it, which is NOT recommended, but worked fine for me.
-- Morgan
Oh okay, I think I get it now. So you don't have to let it do the install but if you don't then you have to keep the downloaded file where it downloaded because if you move it, such as burning it to a disk and keeping it as a hard copy back up, the DIM will have nothing to compare it to?
If that's the case it's workable and will help me keep updated better I maybe just have to think a little differently about where I download things to versus where I store things. I typically like to download to a particular drive seperate from my C: Drive where I only have my OS and a few key programs to enhance my OS like Office, and Photoshop. I also have a seperate drive that's just for Poser, Studio, Bryce, Carrara and a few other support apps like Clothes Converter and Morph Designer. I then have yet another drive where I store downloaded files once I've made sure they're safe, installed them and no longer need to run them. So the download drive you can think of as kind of a work station where I handle files. It doesn't need to be terribly big, any 100GB drive should be more then enough except in extreme circumstances maybe, like downloading a whole bunch of stuff but then not have the time to do anything with them. This acts as kind of a layer of protection from possible virus infections and as such it's really not the same drive you want for mass storage because the more files infected, the bigger the problem. It might be worth Daz considering giving the customer the option to specify a seperate location to compare to from the location it downloads to? If necessary it would also be helpful if the download process organized things in seperate folders (ie Hair, Clothes, Props, Scenes, Lights, Materials, Poses, etc) even better if it can set that up for individual characters (ie Victoria 1-5, Michael 1-5, Aiko, 1-5, Freak 1-5, Genesis, Bryce, Cararra, Hexagon, 3rd Party Plugins, etc.) That might be a bit much to ask though and so just the ability to remember where a file was saved to say 5 - 10 subfolders deep should do the trick although an infinite number of subfolders would be better to allow for extreme customization/organization of downloads.
If DIM could be told to read from a user specified location seperate from a different user specified download location and it had the ability to remember and compare to user specified locations an infinite number of subfolders deep then it would do everything I need it to do (including keeping caught up better on updates) and I wouldn't need to do anything radically different then how I've been doing things for the 10 plus years I've been a Daz customer.
Bear in mind that you don't have to download everything at once if you don't have a fast/unlimited connection -- start with new purchases, and work your way through the backlog over time.
I find the easiest way to do things if you don't want to use DIM to install is to install to a dummy location and then delete the dummy installs (or reorganize them and move them to your real content folder, if it's something you haven't installed yet). Then you can archive your downloads however you normally do, and DIM can still track updates.
Who me? I would never make jokes about worms or VD or nuttin like that :P I don't know what preytell you are talking about though it was PRETTY FUNNY. Right up there with DIM and LIE hehehe :)
Annie, if your going to be tellin' DIM LIE's we are just gonna have to bend you over and PDL you with a FBM! So just don't go there MSY! :P
No I'm not terribly worried about speed I have a pretty good cable connecting and no data restrictions, I was just asking about the length of time in order to plan ahead a good time to do it where I could set it, forget it and come back when it was done.
thanks for the suggestion though.
So I don't have to keep the install or keep the files where they download to intially? I was getting the impression I had to do one or the other? Well if I can do that then yeah that would work just fine for me I think.
Okay well then only one concern is left unanswered and that is does DIM also download and install Bryce and Carrara files the same way or are they somehow handled differently? So far I've only seen folks talking about things in terms of Poser and Studio. Which isn't surprising since I'm sure the bulk of Daz's business is with content for those two platforms. I'm concerned though because quite a bit of what I've bought over the years was content for Bryce and Carrara as well as Studio and Poser.
Currently it's only DS and Poser. they're working on adding Bryce and Carrara.
So you can't even download Byce or Carrara related items right now? Other then the old way?
So you can't even download Byce or Carrara related items right now? Other then the old way?
Afraid not
Annie, if your going to be tellin' DIM LIE's we are just gonna have to bend you over and PDL you with a FBM! So just don't go there MSY! :P
~ROFLMAO~ OMG, it's an acronym fest!!!! :coolgrin:
Afraid not
Any guesstimation a bit more precise then "Daz Soon" on when that will be done? :) I won't hold you to it I just see that as the point things should roughly be completely switched over and so I'm wanting to know how much time I have to steel myself as they say.... sometimes ....maybe....well I'm sure someone's said it before. :)
Also will this packaging change happen to all files even vaulted ones that occasionally get released? And finally am I correct in understanding that the old method of going thru your itemized history and being able to reset files will either disappear or will start giving out zip files only? In other words is there a point in time where the Daz .exe installer might become a collecters item? :) That new files will be available in zip form only no matter how you download?
Annie, if your going to be tellin' DIM LIE's we are just gonna have to bend you over and PDL you with a FBM! So just don't go there MSY! :P
~ROFLMAO~ OMG, it's an acronym fest!!!! :coolgrin:
I don't know why but for some reason this made me think of a visual play on letters/words. When you read it read individual capitalized letters as if they were words and it helps if you can do it with a countrified or hillbilly kind of accent. It goes as follows:
One person to another - M R Ducks (Them are Ducks)
The other person back - M R Not (Them are not)
One person to another - O S A R (Oh yes they are)
The other person back - L I B (Well I'll be)
Pause
The other person back - M R Ducks (Them are Ducks)
Don't ask me why I though of that because you said "acronym fest" but I did so I thought I'd share. :)
Afraid not
Any guesstimation a bit more precise then "Daz Soon" on when that will be done? :) I won't hold you to it I just see that as the point things should roughly be completely switched over and so I'm wanting to know how much time I have to steel myself as they say.... sometimes ....maybe....well I'm sure someone's said it before. :)
Also will this packaging change happen to all files even vaulted ones that occasionally get released? And finally am I correct in understanding that the old method of going thru your itemized history and being able to reset files will either disappear or will start giving out zip files only? In other words is there a point in time where the Daz .exe installer might become a collecters item? :) That new files will be available in zip form only no matter how you download?
Can't give you any guesstimation on the time line ...
But I found some answeres in the threads for DIM:
Yes, the vaulted items will be converted too.
No, the old method will not disapper.
Yes, when all items are converted the old method will give you zips too.
As for collectors items ... I can do without exe files. ;)
Zips are smaller and easier to handle and don't throw fits with Windows7 as some of the older installers are doing.
Just got the horse pro bundle and it never really hit me before...
I'll never ever ever have to install every single little installer!!!
I'm so glad :D
...Afraid I don't have pompoms, so I'll keep it on a very intense thumbs up :)
Any guesstimation a bit more precise then "Daz Soon" on when that will be done? :) I won't hold you to it I just see that as the point things should roughly be completely switched over and so I'm wanting to know how much time I have to steel myself as they say.... sometimes ....maybe....well I'm sure someone's said it before. :)
Also will this packaging change happen to all files even vaulted ones that occasionally get released? And finally am I correct in understanding that the old method of going thru your itemized history and being able to reset files will either disappear or will start giving out zip files only? In other words is there a point in time where the Daz .exe installer might become a collecters item? :) That new files will be available in zip form only no matter how you download?
Can't give you any guesstimation on the time line ...
But I found some answeres in the threads for DIM:
Yes, the vaulted items will be converted too.
No, the old method will not disapper.
Yes, when all items are converted the old method will give you zips too.
As for collectors items ... I can do without exe files. ;)
Zips are smaller and easier to handle and don't throw fits with Windows7 as some of the older installers are doing.
Thanks for the info.