Exporting morph targets

barrieM

Is there any Carrara 8.5 documentation on exporting morph targets? The user manual under the help menu in Carrara 8.5 is actually for Carrara 7 and it explains how to export morph targets. Unfortunately the model room morph tab controls are not the same as Carrara 8.5.

  If no documentation, can anyone help?

 

Diomede

Exporting for use in which program?  You can save a changed mesh as an obj for use in another program such as Poser or Daz Studio, but you have to use the correct scales.  For use entirely within Carrara, you simply have to validate the morph and save the figure.  For use within Carrara, you can also save the changed mesh as an obj and use the "load" dialogue, I think.

 

I have an example of morphing a Daz figure and exporting to Daz Studio around here.

https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2374041/#Comment_2374041

barrieM

I am trying to export an obj. file from Carrara's model room to poser. As you know only the morphed part of the object has to be exported. Carrara 7 shows how it is done but can't get the same info for Carrara 8.5. I couldn't find a manual for 8.5 so I am in the dark at present. I can probably figure it out by trial and error. 

Diomede

Someone else will have to come along with the correct scale presets, but the basic steps are

 

- in Poser, load the figure, turn off all kinematics, use the joint editor and zero the joint roations

- in Poser, export the figure as an obj, check only the one single bodypart that you intend to morph, such as the head

- in the Poser export dialogue, choose the correct preset scale (sorry, don't remember)

- in Carrara, load the exported obj body part

- In Carrara, use the vetex modeler to move vertexes around without adding or subtracting vertexes

- In Carrara, export the morphed bodypart as a new obj, choose the correct export preset scale (sorry, don't remember)

- in Poser, choose the bodypart, under the properties tab, there is a dialogue to load a morph target.  Use the browser to select the saved morphed obj

 

Hopefully, someone remembers, or has easy link to, the correct export and import preset scale dialogues.  Poser objs are extremely small by default.

barrieM

My figure is an object that I modelled (with morphs) in Carrara. I exported the complete object (no morphs) as an obj. file into  Poser.

In Carrara I apply a morph to one section of the object. 

I then have to export only the morphed section to Poser. <•••••• this is the step that I need help with.

In Carrara's model room, I can select the morphed section but but the entire object is exported rather than the selected part.  

Diomede

OK, was assuming that you were morphing a 3rd party rigged figure.  Some more questions about your model and about its Poser rigging.

- When you modeled in Carrara, did you create named polygon groups to correspond to the Poser bodyparts?

- Is it rigged in Poser?  And if so, do the rigging parts match the named parts?

 

For example, I could have a scifi aicraft thruster, with a handle and a case.  There could be separate polygon groups for the case and the handle.  When rigging in Poser, I could match the Poser bones to the named polygon groups of case and handle in a single thruster model.

 

Open the initial thruster model and save to a new name, such as THRUSTER_MORPHS.

Enter vertex modeler

Select by : name : polygons - and then choose the named group that you wish to morph, such as "case"

Then, under the selection tab, choose inverse.  Now, everything should be selected except the case.

Delete - then save the file to a new name, such as Thruster_Case_Morphs

Now you can use the vertex modeler to make a morph for the case and save as an obj file.

In the future, to make more morphs for the case, start with the Thruster_Case_Morph file and save as separate objs.

In Poser, load the thruster figure.

Select the case bodypart.

Use the properties tab to find the load morph menu and browse to the saved morph for the case.  Repeat for the additional morphs and save the figure to your Poser library.

 

barrieM

WOW! thanks for the detail. 

- When you modeled in Carrara, did you create named polygon groups to correspond to the Poser bodyparts?

I named the parts with their real names. Should they have been named "head", "arm"," hand", etc? Are these what you called "Poser Bones"?

- Is it rigged in Poser?  And if so, do the rigging parts match the named parts?

Not sure what rigging is. If it means animation, my model is not rigged.

Diomede, I am very tired right now, I will make a fresh start tomorrow. Hope you will be available tomorrow.

 

 

 

barrieM

I think I understand everything except your comment:-

"When rigging in Poser, I could match the Poser bones to the named polygon groups of case and handle in a single thruster model."

What is rigging in Poser? and how do I match the poser bones? Is it just randomly renaming the parts of my object? Or should the bone parts be linked like "head", "neck", "shoulder" etc?

Diomede

Rigging in Poser is attaching Poser's "bones" to the mesh of a model so that the model can be posed and animated.

 

Sorry, it has been a very long time since I tried to create a model for Poser and create morphs for it.  If I remember correctly, to create a model that can be posed in Poser, it needs to be rigged.  For example, you could model a snake with bodypart names like segment1 and segment2.   But maybe your model is not intended to be posed, maybe something like a sofa that has several cushions?

 

Whatever you are trying to do, the key is to have the exact same vertexes in Carrara (or any other modeler) that you are trying to morph.  So, if there was a 4 segment snake, and you wanted to create a morph to inflate the 2nd segment, you need to be able to isolate the vertexes for the second segment in your modeling program.  Similarly, if you have a sofa with 3 cushions, and you want to create sitting mophs for the 3rd cushion, you need to be able to isolate the vertexes of the 3rd cushion.  When you bring the morph back to Poser, it is important that the position of the vertexes still match, which is why the scale matters so much.  By default, Poser meshes are very tiny.  The good news is that if you modeled the mesh initially in Carrara, hopefully you saved it in a way that you can start your morphs from the same file that you exported to Poser and then use the same scales.  Just save an additional copy of the initial file so you don't screw it up.

 

So, if I were to model a sofa with the intent of exporting to Poser, I could use the "name" function in the vertex modeling room's select tab to name polygon groups for each cushion and for the sofa frame.  The sofa frame and each cushion could be loaded separately in Poser and then parented to each other.  In Carrara, I could make a morph for just the 1st cushion by selecting it by its polygon name, deleting the rest, and creatng my morph.  In Poser, select the cushion, and load the morph.  Or, if I were to create a snake with several segments, I could name each segment in a similar way.  To make the snake poseable in Poser, the polygons of each segment is attached to a bone. Again, in Carrara, I could select the mesh of one segment by using its polygon name if I created one, delete the rest, morph, and save under a new name.  Then in Poser, select that segment of the snake and load the saved morph.

 

The key is having the same scale and orientation for the element or bodypart as the morphed obj file.

3DAGE

HI All :)

Barrie,. can you say if your model is a "figure" or prop, or something,. ....,. it may not require bones and rigging.

 

this may help....

 

barrieM

Thank you 3DAGE. It is a prop (eyeglasses) that have no moving parts so I don't think it needs bones. The poser manual has a good section on external morphs. Couldn't find a complete Carrara 8 manual. The Carrara 7 manual that comes with Carrara 8.5 has a good section on exporting morphs but the morph tab is different. I think I now have enough info to figure it out thanks to this forum and good Poser documentation.

barrieM

Still working on my Morph. Can't load the Morph target into Poser. Get the message "Target geometry has wrong number of vertices." I checked vertices count of both target and "victim" in Carrara. They are the same. However the sizes are different. Would the same error message occur if vertices are correct but sizes are different?  

barrieM

Found the problem but don't know how to fix it. 

•Exported my prop from Carrara as a .obj file. It comprises 2 parts (lens and a rim). Lens has 1504 polygons rim has 640 polygons.

•Imported the prop into Poser at 10% of original size.

• Polygon count was good for the lens but up from 640 to 10240 for the rim. Exactly 16 times the original.

• I checked the prop after exporting from Carrara and polygon count was good, implying Poser "did a number" on the prop.

Any suggestions will be greately  appreciated.

Diomede

Did you have smoothing on for the rim?  If so, that could account for the polygon difference.

barrieM

Yes, smoothing was on. The rim is like a circular sausage. (Forgot the mathematical term ..... Torroid??) and the lens is cylindrical.

I would almost bet my boots that you have pin pointed the problem. I'll check it out later.

barrieM

Smoothing didn't do anything. I think it only affects the rendering process. 

DUDU

You must check the "export object with morph and skinning" in the .obj export tab.

3DAGE

BarrieM :)

Smoothing "sub divides" the geometry,. in memory,. this is what allows the object to look smoother,. more geometry is added, "virtually"

When you export a model with Sub-Division Smoothing enabled,. then that Virtual geometry is converted into real geometry.

You should always export at the base level , no smoothing.

Smoothing, or Sub D,. can be added in most 3D programs.

As DUDU mentions,. export with morphs and skinning, to get your morph

It's actually confusing terminology,. because an OBJ is a single thing,. it's not able to export the model and all it's separate morph states as an OBJ,.

What it does, is export the "current shape" of your object,. (with any morphs applied)

which gives you a morph target OBJ , which can be loaded into poser/DS etc as a morph target.

Hope it helps :)

barrieM

Many thanks 3DAGE. That iis a big help. Turned of smoothing set modelling and rendering levels to 0 in Carrara. Exported with skin and morph. Checked that both the morph and its target have identical vertices. Loaded the .obj file into Poser. Made a group for the morph and checked that it bhad the same number of polygons as the morph. Turned off smoothing and confidently loaded the morph. Got the dreaded error message "Target Geometry has wrong number of vertices". I can get a vertices count in Carrara but only a polygon count in Poser.

Still stumped. 

 

DUDU

Hi,

I had the same problem when I wanted to import in Realflow an object exported with morph and skinning...

RF don't accepts this kind of file.

My workaround is to re-import this object into Carrara, looking if all is triangulated and then, export again this new mesh (without morph and skinning, this time).

That work fine now.

barrieM

Thanks DUDU. Still stumped. I think I have tried all options over the past two days. Poser keeps telling me I have the wrong number of vertices but it only reports the number of polygons. If I knew how many were wrong I may have a clue. What I do know is:

• Polygon count of target and morph is the same in the .obj files.

 • For a given mesh, the quantity of vertices do not always equal the number of vertices. Is that usual?

 

barrieM

Sorry, should read 

 • For a given mesh, the quantity of vertices do not always equal the number of polygons. Is that usual?

barrieM

I want to say a big thank you to all who helped me understand the difficulties of transferring Carrara morphs to Poser. I did manage to get Poser to accept the carrara targets but the morph wheel in Poser either ripped them appart or sent them into space. I guessed the vertex order was wrong and after fruitless attempts I gave up. I am now starting from scratch in Poser and hopefully I will get some help on my way to a successful conclusion.