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me too
I am not giving up on them. All of the figures will require careful positioning of individual vertices to make it work (which was going to be the case anyway, since the clone has to be substantially different from any figure's base shape). The results of the test show that the individual placement of vertices is going to be in the range of thousands for the dissimilar geometries. (G8 and G3 are largely the same, and the cross gender differences don't matter for the fidelity question. That is, they are so different that close is the best you'll get.) It's just going to take a while to get working clones for G1 and G2.
Allow me to illustrate:
Here we have G8 wearing my custom toon shape. I made this for G3F, and never got 'round to making a male version. What you see on G8M (right) is the first test of this shape on that figure transferred using a new method and new clones. (The method isn't wholly new. It just does things in a different order and uses one more clone figure.) Notice the pectoral distortion on G8M. That's just something you have to live with (learning to model is useful here, as it allows you to fix these things). Also, note the jaggies on G8M's nails. Overall, not bad for a first run, but needs improvement.
There are tradeoffs to be made when working on a transfer method. The tradeoff I made here was accuracy in nipple morph transfer:
Why? Because if you bake the G8 shape into the target, the nipples will not be squished. These distortions are the result of not baking in shapes. Shape baking is optional, and not recommended for anything but the main body/head morphs. The other tradeoff would have been accuracy of shape, but with placement distortions. You can see the root cause of this in the clones, noting how sparse the gemoetry is around the lower pectorals on G8M.
Since I don't yet have G1 and G2 clones, I can't illustrate further, but each place where the gemometry differs between the figures, substantially, is a place that might see distoritions. Because they have denser gemometry, they should be easier to smooth out but it's still going to require exact placement of key verts to make that work. Thousands of them. It's going to take time. With G3, I'll only need a few hundred corrections at most.
Even if you have it, it's likely that you shouldn't be using it as it violates the EULA in it's current state. At least in the way it was distributed. I am not using the script anymore and won't until it's fixed and EULA compliant. It's an amazing script and it pains me to not be able to use it, so hopefully it's something that can be worked out between Daz and SingularBlues. He's put in an insane amount of work into this, so hopefully his hard work will be able to be enjoyed by the community soon. :)
I think it also would be a boost to older figure sales if we knew we could transfer them to G8. :D
Whao! That sounds incredibly complex! It blows me away that people know how to do this stuff - I had trouble even just following your explanation of it. lol You're awesome! I Hope you're able to work with Daz and get the script so that all parties are happy with it. :) I actually wish it could be available in the Daz store as well - that way more people can see it and know about it. I think it would help boost sales of older figures that way as well. :D
I can't see how an end user violates the EULA just by using the script unless they are intentionally looking to do something illegal with it. And if there was an issue, then Daz should have asked for people to stop using it. I have not seen a statement like that.
The way it was distributed was a violation of the EULA from what I read here. So, in that way, it's a little like using stolen property, yes? Maybe one of the mods could chime in with a more clear statement on that. I don't know, just seems like using something that you know was distributed in a way that violated the EULA isn't right.
It's all in how a user can justify their actions Diva, just like with any other borderline illegal activity. Technically there are probably several things many users do daily that violate a EULA or copyright in the privacy of their own home. You are just a better person than the majority of the population, LOL
it'd be nice to keep this as simple as possible.
long-time followers of the project and the thread know that the situation is already fraught enough, and singular already has more stuff to worry about than a man in a difficult position who's trying to relax and do a good job needs.
he's already proactively addressed the compliance issues with the script in full and willing cooperation with daz. there's no need to establish a police presence here, or stage any interventions, or create any drama. the two parties are continuing to develop a relationship of their own.
if people who don't have a copy of the script are wishing out loud that they had one, oh well. as far as i'm concerned that's a well-deserved compliment to singular, and absolutely not a dire threat to daz IP. as many on this thread have pointed out, the succesful completion of this project would do more to keep the daz backlist more relevant and commercially viable than nine zillion flash sales ever could. and it seems self-evident to me that daz agrees, or this thread would have been locked down or disappeared long ago.
so why rock the boat? good vibes are our friend here.
:)
j
I agree, and let's all try to put LESS pressure on SB. He's just a nice guy with a complicated life, who is doing his best under circumstances that would have most of us hiding under a rock, not trying to help the community. Good luck and best wishes, SingularBlues! (Frank),
Being silent doesn't stop the PMing I keep getting from people asking me to send them the script. I needed to address that and let people know that I'm not even using the script - so that they can stop asking me to send it to them. So please, no soap-boxing. I have good reason for saying what I did and finger-wagging at me or accusing me of "establishing a police presence" and "creating drama" really doesn't help with the "good vibes".
Please, lets all be nice. Aside from the fact that replacing the clones has me busy, I asked that we not focus on other problem reports to cut down on the jealous begging for links and copies. I have killed all links I control, and I asked that no one distribute it until I could. I think it's implicit that sharing the actual tool would also make the baby Jesus cry.
I have also put as much stress as I can on the fact that the primary mistake was mine. Doubled because I didn't have to do it that way in the first place. Triple because thinking about the extra step I was trying to avoid suggests an opportunity to increase the accuracy of the results.
I know it rankles that Daz is "holding things up" because "technicality" but I created the problem. There is no need to rehash that.
I have not said anything up to now, because people need to vent. I get that. But 8 it is at the point where people feel accused and people are trolling for elicit copies of the script. So please, slow down. Be patient. I got this. I will keep you I informed.
Continue to vent (I wouldn't ask you not to) but remember to give Daz a break for me, please.
Hold off on public test reports. If you can't resist pm or email me.
Don't ask anyone to send you the tool.
Don't ask anyone to send you the tool.
Don't ask anyone to send you the tool.
Making the clones super accurate did not solve the problem. The solution was simpler. In investigating the solution, I've determined that the cause of the hang at ERC is due to a missing forward slash.
We are getting closer, but the solution to the light errors the new clones brought might not work in general. I won't know that until I get to Genesis 2 or Genesis. Sorry this is taking so long, but it turns out this nutty idea I had requires a lot more clever solutions to make the solution. Like a lot of metasolutions. I spent all day today hunting the last real failure mode, so I'm just getting to the bit where I make more clones. I thought I'd get there yesterday. If the solution to the errors is general, the other clones need to be far less precise to work, which will be a good thing. There's also potential for making a trade off between transfer speed and increased accuracy, but I'm not going to be writing that. Once we have a safe Git, I'll add that as something to consider working on.
SB take your time and don't stress yourself out. We waited this long
I am far from stressed (beyond the fact that I'd rather be doing something else). I'm actually pretty proud of the results. If I can figure out something else, this paves the way for real Generation1/2/3/4 support. It's kinda obvious in hindsight. If anything, I'm slightly wistful about the whole moving on choice, but only slightly. It's still a lot of work the script side needs, and I probably would never have come up with this if I hadn't made the interllectual property mistake. There's no way of knowing, but it's such an odd (but obvious in hindsight) idea that you can't really decide if you'd have ever gotten there if things hadn't happened the way they did, or if it was an inevitable end point. Since I can't know, I don't care.
I'll get there soon enough.
Glad to hear you're not stressed, SB.
And possible Generation 1/2/3/4 support? That sounds interesting, if you mean V1/M1 and up. Would that maybe apply to other shapes like Steph/David, etc (even Poser figures)? I ask because I've often wondered if that might ever happen. We do have the old GenX, but it has limitations. I'm ONLY asking theoretically, and am not pushing you to actually do it - leave that for future script writers!
Is there any way that you can sell this in the Daz store?
If it allowed me to do transgender morphs with unique sliders from separate final characters and it had a fast simple interface, I'd definitely buy it even at full price! :D
I make no promises about what it can and can't do in single sliders or fast. I only warrant that it works, most of the time.
I suppose there might be a way to sell it, but I'm tired of it, honestly. I don't mind working on it at a slower pace, but my interest is in other things, at the moment. So I don't see any reason to reverse course now, especially after all the drama I created. I'm not worried about that part.
I do mean every Daz/poser figure, if said figure can be read by Studio. The main limitation for getting shapes to go from one to the other was that you can't autofit things to legacy figures. But what the script is doing now doesn't require autofit to the source figure. So that's solved. Bidirection support is still a problem as is supporting legacy ERC links. Maybe that can be solved too, I really don't know. I just see that I've eliminated the biggest of the things that prevented it. That said, each unique figure requires a unique clone. If someone is willing to make that clone, then that figure can be supported. This assumes the issues with the legacy formats are resolved in a satisfactory manner.
There is a thing.
As stated, G1/2 support is not finished. I had to fix a bad sector on my hard disk and recover data. None of the data was directly related to GenNext, but the bad sector was in the FAT. Which probably means nothing to most, but those who've been there know that I couldn't save any files to that drive without risking overwriting the files I wanted to recover.
The short form; I'm late, there is a new repo with the new clones. I've updated the license in keeping with the guidance I got from Daz. Hopefully, this is good enough. Any problems should come in the form of nits to pick with the attributions, so (crossed things) there shouldn't be further downtime.
Thanks for this, SB!
EDIT: This 'thing' runs very slowly compared to the last version - running a Mika 7 to G8F test, and it's been sitting on 33% for thirteen minutes now. I'll post here on the outcome.
WOW! You've been working incredibly hard to get this worked out. You've been at this for a very long time, it's totally understandable that you want to move on to other projects. :) We really appreciate all the hard work you've put into it!
SB, I've had this running for over thirty minutes now, and it remains stuck at 33% on "Geometry Imported:BaseShp.obj"
EDIT: When I installed v0.6.2.2b I simply overwrote the the old files. Should I have deleted the old files first? In any case, I'll leave this running. In an hour I have to go out, but when I return home I'll try and see what I can find.
EDIT 2: I closed the script and Studio after the script was still stuck at 33% after 1 hour and 10 minutes. Will try again later.
Any and all issues should be pushed to the git. I don't have a problem with things being posted here. Open source is a social endeavor. Talking about problems can save time when something is just in need of a minor adjustment, and another user knows what to do.
If you think only I can solve the problem, it has to be an issue on the git. I won't even look at it, otherwise. To facilitate that, I will probably be adding increased detailed functionality to the help button as the piece after I finish G1/2 support. (You were probably starting to wonder when I would go parenthetical. Wait no more. G1/2 base support will be along shortly. None of the clones is truly optimized. Since the final process is not too fiddly about vertex placement, it ought to be pretty easy to get those clones done.) That should not take long, but keep in mind that I am not dropping everything to add features. I will work on it as I feel like. If anyone else wants to take a stab at fixing things, you can. It's open source.
For those wondering how to get the tool from github, you use the download option. You then copy the content of the Library folder to a library you made just for this. You should also make a separate library for transfers. Remember, the contents of the Library folder, not the Library folder itself.
i have a question, i was making some tests with some "cross-figure, then comes to me if this addon can also allow to cross gender morphs, like using victoria morph into genesis male and things like that??
i'm asking that because i was testing some options due to the cross-dress addon
https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-cross-figure-resource-kit
then after saw the tutorial video which teach to use it for g8, come to me which it the "morph to other gender appear in all 3 2 genders genesis (2, 3 and 8) and it can allow you to create "male or female versions" of characters which are or only male or only female, the only problem is which aside that morph the only morph you can use on then are the "original gender morphs", then could be good to be able to transfer other gender morphs, it can help to work into characters which are only "gender" to be made 2 genders.
For exemple you can get the reptilian and minotaur 6 from g2 and make "female versions" of then, the only problem will be the "male textures" and lack of female morphs but overal you can make then into female using that hidden morph.
Yes, if you don't bake the source shape of a morph, it will do pretty much that. But keep in mind, this typically causes the male figure's nipples to track downward and contract. (Exactly why, I dunno. I suspect I've only tested shapes that cause that effect.
Also keep in mind that this overall effect is most reliable when transfering between M/F of the same Genesis, and won't work well at all with G1 (it can still work, but you need to add the male/female base shape manually, and I won't warrant the results.
ALSO keep in mind, the script only transefers by product. so if you want to transfer, for example, whymsically misspelled name for V7 (hereafter WMNV7) to G3M, you need to also transfer V7, and in both cases, unbaked. (in fact, you should never bake a shape that depends on and shape. Baking prevents the differences between the base figures' shapes from distorting the final morph. So, when baking, V7 sent to G3M will look nearly exactly like V7 on G3F. If you bake WMNV7 AND V7, when you dial the final shape on G3m, it will, essentially, add G3F's based shape to the result twice. Once from being baked into V7 and once from WMNV7. So shapes "for" other shapes should not be baked. If you mean to send a shape "for" another cross gender to create a Rule 63 version of that shape, then you have to send both the shape you want and the shape it depends on across unbaked.
ALSO keep in mind, the current way the script runs involves creating a copy of the source figure with twice the mesh density or a bit over 3 times the number of verts. So it takes it a while to get started. Not a super long while, but a couple of minutes, maybe. All I can say is, if you think it's hung, you can cancel out, but if you don't get an error messages after closing all of the script windows, the script is still running. You just have no means to see what it's doing. And you can interface with Studio while this is going on, which will make the whole thing unstable and crash both, eventually. So if you think it hung, close it and don't get an error message, your best bet is to force stop Studio.
yeah i would love to do some test on characters like reptilian and minotaur 6
but here what i'm say, this is the catguy from catworld 8 from rawart, this is just his base and enabling the hidden options, you can see the dials to both genesis male and female for genesis 2, 3 and 8 to change the character shape
this is not using your addon just the hidden dials for old body clones
now when i use the genesis 8 female dial:
now comparing with the original catworld female.
not a really big difference, the only thing i would say that dial does a little weird is niples position which normally ending a little in the borders rater than more centered.
then if your addon allow me to transfer morphs like this:
https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-female-body-morphs
to be applied on the male then it could means which we could work a way to allow allow characters like that:
https://www.daz3d.com/reptilian-6-hd-bundle
to have a female version without need to create a new one, by just using the default one and transfering female morphs to him, that could turn this addon in one of the best addons ever made, because of the power of the compatibility could easy go crazy allowing basically any character from genesis 1 to genesis 8 be "anything"(as long it have proper support).
I've downloaded the git and had a quick poke at converting RawArt's Lekkulion Female to G8F - a challenging shape (including morphing away fingers and toes), but it took a very good stab at it. (Although obviously minus the HD portion of the morph).
I'll need to do a tiny bit of tidying up in Blender to get the results perfect, but it's a massive improvement over some of my previous attempts to transfer even much simpler shapes (which frequently resulted in character's fingers tearing off or the like).
Very impressive - many thanks for all the effort you've put in to this project; this is going to be a really useful tool for so many people.