Succubus
defectedsaint
Posts: 76
Can somebody make a succubus model, I mean a real succubus model? A model that doesn't simply look like a female devil/satan? Because that's what they all look like.
https://www.daz3d.com/succubus-add-ons
Aside from the lamia, which isn't a succubus (although the lamia asset is cool enough in its own right) the succubus isn't really a succubus. It's the closest of what I've found, but I don't really get the whole fire and brimstone look. It's a she devil.
https://www.daz3d.com/tara-sachra-hd-for-victoria-7
Yet again, she devil.
https://www.daz3d.com/meridiana
Half she devil.
And I saved this one for last...
https://www.daz3d.com/fwf-janna-little-devil-expansion
Self identified she devil, the ONLY honest description I've seen. This model basicaly typifies all the others, just without wings.
Nothing is wrong with these models, they look nice, they're just all mislabled except the last. I want a succubus that looks like so...
or...
or...
or if WoW is your thing...
See where I'm going with this? I want a succubus that looks demonic, not satanic. I don't want to look at it and have to think to figure out if I'm seeing a succubus or a she devil, I want it to be obvious at first glance. Which means I don't want a red skinned succubus, or a a succubus with hellfire/brimstone wings, horns, or anything.
Honestly, I'd like to request that EmmaAndJordi make it since I love their fantasy models but I'm not sure how to float that idea to them. It really doesn't matter who makes it though, I just want a model that I can buy that I like. I'm not trying to put down the other "succubus" models, they look good, but they're she devils to me, not succubi.
I would also like a nice Yuki Onna (snow woman) model, but if somebody could just make a legit succubus I'd be happy.
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Comments
Well, there's no official Succubus Spotters' Guide to work from so different people are going to have different ideas of how they should look.
You don't want a character which looks like a she-devil, yet you... Want it to look like a she-devil? :) Because that's what all of those examples look like.
If you want something which looks like an authentic succubus, as in the creature of legends and some alleged encounters, then what you're actually looking for is an old hag-like creature. They're meant to look like conventional, non-winged women who are overwhelmingly beautiful, then reveal their true, far more gotesque forms, during sex. You'd be wanting a character to look as hideous as possible, not seductive. The seductive part would be the disguise, which you could probably form with most available female characters.
I too am confused...
You said "Which means I don't want a red skinned succubus, or a a succubus with hellfire/brimstone wings, horns, or anything"
and yet all the examples have the wings and horns and 1 even has the red skin...
Yeah, how are those different than https://www.daz3d.com/succubus-add-ons ?
Hmmm... you know that's a good question which brought up another question. The Succubus add ons are for Genesis 2. Now, with backwards compaitbility you can put them on Genesis 3 and (presumably) Genesis 8, but would they morph the same on newer generation figures? I have that problem with certain clothing accessories (G2 to G3/8) where I will apply it... it looks great in a T (static) pose, but as soon as you move the figure, or apply a pose, it deforms into weird shapes. Would that kind of thing happen with the succubus addons on a Genesis 8 figure?
With the horns and wings your best bet would be not fitting them but just parenting them as appropriate.
The lamia snake isn't going to work unless you do the lamia as a stand in and superimpose another figure, like the old trick with centaurs.
No need to retrofit. Genesis 3 already has them.
https://www.daz3d.com/dark-fantasy-add-ons-for-genesis-3-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/dark-fantasy-add-ons-for-genesis-3-male-s
I already specified exactly what I meant when I said she devil, none of the pictures I posted are reminiscent of what I described, and no I do not want a model that looks like what I consider to be a she-devil. I want something that looks like what I posted, demonic not satanic, I don't really understand where I'm not being clear.
Yes, keywords being HELLFIRE/BRIMSTONE wings, horns, or anything. All of the examples have horns and wings because I want horns and wings... I seriously don't understand why people are making this so hard. The example that's red, isn't one of the ones I used for what I want and I was showing what I did not want. None of the pictures posted have red skin... unless your definition of red is my definition of purple.
The hellfire/brimstone? Are people even reading or do you just want to argue against what I'm asking for? Like I said, I do not want anything that gives the impression of satan or hell, all available assets that I've seen give that impression. Specifialy, I do not want anything that looks like the sterotypical satan, or related to that image, in any way. Why is that so hard to understand?
I really, REALLY, do not see the confusion here. The difference is subtle, if details aren't your thing at least, but to me they are worlds apart. Nothing that I posted, outside of the basic form, looks similar to what is available.
Edit:
To put this in even better perspective, because I seem to have lost folk out in left field somewhere, the mesh is what i'm looking for but the textures are not. You pick any model, lets just say Victoria 7 for the sake of it, give that model different textures and it can look drastically different. You could turn it into a Jamaican person, keep her European, make her Polynesian, Asian, Irish, whatever. The same concept applies here. The form is what I'm looking for, but how that form is manifest is not. If you look up "she devil" every picture will look like what's available as a succubus, excluding regular people in outfits. However, if you look up succubus, you get a wide array of styles with only one represented here, the she devil kind. I want something that looks in form and TEXTURALLY like what I posted. If I had the skills I'd alter the models myself, assuming I could and the authors wouldn't mind, but I don't. Stop trying to be "right" and look at what I'm asking, geez...
The problem is that we just aren't seeing the big differences that you are. The images you posted as examples of what you want look a lot ike the pictures of what you don't want, with some minor differences in textures, poses, lighting, and background. If the succubus and dark fantasy add-ons don't work for you, you might want to look at https://www.daz3d.com/universal-horns-for-genesis-3-female-s, https://www.daz3d.com/universal-demon-wings-for-genesis, and https://www.daz3d.com/universal-demon-wings-expansion-pack. For the issues you mentioned, I have the following suggestions:
1 - Red skin tones: The succubus and dark fantasy add-ons work with any G2F or G3F character, so just use a regular skin texture or one of the fantasy skin packs.
2 - Fire and brimstone wings/horns/tails: The two packs come with at least 2 textures for each of these items. Horns are black or off white, tails and wings include a near flesh color. The demon wings I posted have lots of colors. You can also vary the color in the surface tab.
It would also help if you could let us know what you are basing your demonic but not she-devil succubi on. Is it a book or series of books, video game title, or an RPG like D&D or Pathfinder?
The difference is definitely subtle if you don't already have a preconcieved idea like I do, I'll admit that. But I really can't say anything else outside of those pictures. My issue with the models is definitely the textures tho, as the form is 100% what I want. The thing is, I really don't want to buy them, then end up unhappy with what I got as there aren't exactly refunds for not liking a purchase. However, if you're telling me that I can change the texture of the wings, I can pretty much work out everything else so long as I can get the wings to look relatively how I want. There is no way for me to try that without buying it first tho... I may try https://www.daz3d.com/succubus-add-ons just for the lamia because I have use for that anyway, but the succubus with that doesn't seem to have all the color options that the lamia has. If you know how I can alter those wings and tail, I'd be more than happy with that add on. When it's on sale...
Reference wise, pretty much any anime succubus or the WoW succubus without goat hooves.
I guess I"m also a bit confused r.e. what you are looking for, OP. I have this set:
https://www.daz3d.com/dark-fantasy-add-ons-for-genesis-3-female-s
I really like the wings in this set. They have a number of pose options, and I like how the skin on the wings attached to the length of the back. Finding wardrobe for these can be a bit of a challenge, though, which is why I started the Serena The Succubus G3F Ready To Wear (and nearly ready to wear) thread , to help people find decent clothing options for those using these wings. Serena herself was never intended to be a 'faithfully colored' succubus, hence the white skin - she's mainly a fashion model, but changing her skin color to some reddish hue would be quite easy.
These wings are childs play to add, as are the tails and horns. Just click to add!
My understanding of Succubus lore is that Succubi can take/appear in human form occasionally, to seduce human males, so that they can drain life levels/essence out of them, (see D&D, and Succubus lore). So having 'nornal' skin tones, or just doing a 'partial transformation' in these situations makes perfect sense to me.
About my only 'complaint' r.e. the add on wings is that the wing textures don't 'carry over' to the back of the figure, they end abruptly. Same for the tail.
That could be fixed easily enough by spending some time working on the back area skin textures in Photoshop, but as far as changing the skin color, yeah you can go with the Tara & Sachra product that you mentioned for the vicious teeth if you want the 'easy rout'e, and there's also this one: Anneka Demon.
You could also play around with the skin textures a bit, if you had the appropriate shaders. You could give them a more 'reptillian' skin texture, a rougher texture, sooo many options. As far as recoloring skin, it is quite easy to 'go darker' with skin tones, or to recolor the skin to some colored hue. It's when you want to 'go lighter' that you run into difficulty.
As far as horns, the dark fantasy add ons horns (and the Genesis 2 equivalent) are a bit more elaborate than Annekas, and there are various horn sets available on Daz if you want more 'twisty/gnarled' horns as well. This set, for example: https://www.daz3d.com/universal-horns-for-genesis-3-female-s
I suppose someone could release a an add on product that combines various elements of the dark fantasy addons with a specific, say Victoria based, skin texture that 'carries over' the tail and wing textures to the back area, and perhaps reworks the skin texture to make them rougher/scaley/etc. Or that 'unifies' say Anneka with the wings, so that they 'seamlessly' blend in with the figure. But in the meantime, yeah there are ways you can do this yourself.
Most depictions of the succubi I've seen, though, have very smooth skin texture, and for the most part look like human females, perhaps with differently colored skin. The tails, horns, and wings are the thing that distinguishes them/ID's them as Succubi, but there is no 'default' succubi that I've seen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succubus
Then there's Fall From Grace, probably one of the most well known Succubi in the gaming world... not all Succubi are evil, at least according to Chris Avellone!
Be aware that DAZ has a 30 day money back guarantee if you are unhappy with a purchase.
My only concern with https://www.daz3d.com/dark-fantasy-add-ons-for-genesis-3-female-s is if I can get the wings and tail to be the texture I want. The model looks great, I'm just not too keen on the wings and tail. I'm not necessarily trying to say what's right or wrong as a succubus, I just have a preconcieved idea and the models don't match it. I don't have the technical or artistic abilities to modify these things in photoshop, so if it doesn't work right "out the box" it's not going to work for me. Can you apply shaders to those wings/tail? If so, I'll just bite the bullet and try that. I know you say they don't blend into the back but whatever, gotta pick your battles. People seem to really like those files so I doubt anybody sees this and thinks "Hey, let me try that." If shaders don't work I'm just going to scrap my idea of using a succubus. Models are nice, just not what I'm looking for. It's just kind of a bummer that although there are multiple succubus choices, they all basically look the same -_- That lamia is awesome tho, could be a stand alone product as far as I'm concerned.
Or I might just buy the dark elf addon, slap wings and a tail on the model and call it a day... Not ideal, but whatever, life isn't ideal...
Oops, I linked the Genesis version instead of the Genesis 3 version. There is also a Genesis 2 version in the store, and the texture add-on works with all three.
https://www.daz3d.com/universal-demon-wings-for-genesis-3-male-s-and-genesis-3-female-s
This set has 7 color options and 7 transparency options. The expansion pack adds 10 more textures, including a nice looking flame texture for when your succubus gets really angry.
If you want to change the color of the wings, horns, or tail, in this set https://www.daz3d.com/dark-fantasy-add-ons-for-genesis-3-female-s, go into the Surfaces tab and change the Diffuse Color. If you are feeling really adventerous, you can also play with the Ambient, Reflection, Specular, and Subsurface color settings. I would probably start with the lighter wing and tail textures, but you may get some dramatic results with the black textures.
What Zylox said. The Dark Fantasy Add Ons have a couple of different color options, including some more 'fleshy colored' wings, and the 'black and gray' set that Serena is sporting in the thread I linked. And the wing membranes are handled separately in the surfaces tab from the bones, and you don't HAVE to use the supplied texture set. You can simply color them and skip the texture map, although then they won't have any 'roughness to them'.
Here's a quick hack job I did, showing off how you can play with the colors a bit with the Dark Fantasy Add Ons wings and tail. I simply appled a pink/purplish color to Aiko 6's skin here, and used some shades of pink/purple for the wings. I did remove the wing surface map from the Base Color entry for the SkinWing, aka the bone structure skin (select none), but left the maps for the other entries (translucency, etc.). I probably could play with the color of the flesh on the bones more, but you get the gist here. I used the Bat Pink surface map on the wing membrane surface section, with a pink color to get the purplish hue to the wing membranes.
Keep in mind that my main goal here was to give you an idea what color adjustments can do, so I exaggerated the colors a bit on wing skeleton. I'd probably go for a less garish hue there normally.
If you want the more 'cartooney' wings, Demona may be more your speed.
Hope this helps!
That's the biggest issue with suggesting items already out there for this request; Satanic and demon are the same thing. Satan and his minions are demons. The big problem is demons can really look like anything, in fact the perception of the succubus has even changed in folklore over the years: "In modern representations, a succubus may or may not appear in dreams and is often depicted as a highly attractive seductress or enchantress; whereas, in the past, succubi were generally depicted as frightening and demonic." And it doesn't help that as mentioned before, disguise there true form and so can look like anything really.
So it's really up to the perception of the OP, which in their defense is quite difficult to convey an image someone has in mind to text and have them get the same image.
"I already specified exactly what I meant when I said she devil, none of the pictures I posted are reminiscent of what I described, and no I do not want a model that looks like what I consider to be a she-devil. I want something that looks like what I posted, demonic not satanic, I don't really understand where I'm not being clear."
Except that demonic and Satanic are interchangeable terms. Satan would be a demon. This is like saying you want a fish, but not a shark - a shark is a fish.
"The hellfire/brimstone? Are people even reading or do you just want to argue against what I'm asking for? Like I said, I do not want anything that gives the impression of satan or hell, all available assets that I've seen give that impression. Specifialy, I do not want anything that looks like the sterotypical satan, or related to that image, in any way. Why is that so hard to understand?"
So, basically, your real issue is with posing and facial expressions. What's stoping you from taking some of the existing characters and demonic components and simply posing the character in a seductive manner and smiling? These things are only as predatory as you, the artist, chooses to make them.
Here's an example of a comical-looking character I based on Bettie Page's famous devil-girl look, back in the Genesis 2 era. It's not evocative of literal demonic themes - it's comical. It's my first attempt at trying to make something which would fit into the military 'nose art' style.
http://sentinalysis.deviantart.com/art/Bombshell-Away-479647041
See? A character can have demonic components, but come across as fun or comedic. It's totally up to you. You don't need the store to dictate how you use an asset.
"Yes, keywords being HELLFIRE/BRIMSTONE wings, horns, or anything. All of the examples have horns and wings because I want horns and wings... I seriously don't understand why people are making this so hard. The example that's red, isn't one of the ones I used for what I want and I was showing what I did not want. None of the pictures posted have red skin... unless your definition of red is my definition of purple."
I do wish that someone would create some texture expansions for the Dark Fantasy set, agreed, but keep in mind that you're not forced to use the 'Hellborn' material. The alternative material for the wings is a dark material.
Then just add some skins like these, so that they merge better:
http://www.daz3d.com/fantasy-skins-for-genesis-3
https://www.daz3d.com/mrl-mutations
Midnight Stories does the excellent alternative demonic wings set, as someone mentioned, along with some texture expansions for it. Although, personally, I find the bone structure on those too thick for much other than cartoons.
My ideal demonic wings would have the realism of the Dark Fantasy set, extra colour options and not have the membrane stretch down the back. Now that we've moved on a generation, I doubt those will now ever emerge for Genesis 3, though, sadly.
I feel like I am arguing with a Canadian about ham. :)
Satanic and demonic are not the same thing to me. Demons and devils, likewise, are not the same thing to me. People use plenty of terms interchangably but that doesn't make their use correct. Semantics, it's irrelevant.
Thanks to all for the input. I don't know how I missed https://www.daz3d.com/universal-demon-wings-for-genesis-3-male-s-and-genesis-3-female-s but between that, https://www.daz3d.com/universal-horns-for-genesis-3-female-s, and http://www.daz3d.com/fantasy-skins-for-genesis-3 I'll make due.
Seriously, thanks again :)
Edit:
Actually, nope, can't let that go like that.
Devils and demons are not the same thing and really shouldn't be used interchangably because to do so makes thr two rather disambiguous. A devil, as I understand it, is specifically a denizen of hell, with no real distinction between types. A devil is a devil, that's about as complicated as it gets. Demons, however, as I understand it, do not necessarily reside in hell and are widely varied in types. A lamia is a demon, not a devil. A yuki onna is a demon, not a devil. An imp is a demon, not a devil. A harpy is a demon, not a devil. Nymphs can be considered demons, not devils. Pixies can also be demons, not devils.
But again, semantics. I got what I was looking for, relatively speaking, so I'm happy no matter what your opinion is on demons/devils.
From what I can gather, the problem you seem to be facing is not the add-ons themselves, but the textures. The promos seem to be using what I like to call a "lava" texture but almost always PAs include other texture options. Another note is that with wings, the "flesh and bone" part is usually a seperate texture area from the "skin" between the joints.
When you do pick a set of wings and can't get the look you want, there are some free shaders out there (such as Will's on sharecg) you can use in place of textures (there is also https://www.daz3d.com/demon-wingz but I'm not sure about the different texture areas on this one as the promo doesn't show options very well) I've even gone as far as using the Daz dragon, hiding everything but the wings and scaling it to fit a character.
There is also a variety of horns and even a bunch of free ones and I've seen just about every style in your examples in one store or another and I believe there are even some free ones again on sharecg.
I think the best thing to do would be to find 1 image of each part that you like best, then we could help you find a daz studio equivelent to help you build your Succubus. (Such as, "in this picture I'd like to find wings like this and in this picture, I want a tail like this")
When you get all your pieces, if you can't get the texture look you want, then somebody here might pick up the product or already have it and will help create a new texture for you.
de·mon
[ˈdēmən]
NOUN
demons (plural noun)
an evil spirit or devil, especially one thought to possess a person or act as a tormentor in hell.
synonyms: devil · fiend · evil spirit · incubus · succubus
antonyms: angel
a cruel, evil, or destructive person or thing:
"I was a little demon, I can tell you"
synonyms: monster · ogre · fiend · devil · brute · savage · beast · barbarian ·[more]
animalantonyms: saint
a forceful, fierce, or skillful performer of a specified activity:
"a friend of mine is a demon cook" ·[more]
"a demon for work"synonyms: pro · ace · expert · genius · master · virtuoso · maestro ·[more]
past master · marvel · star · hotshot · whiz · buffreckless mischief; devilry:
"his eyes are bursting with pure demon"
another term for daemon.
dev·il
[ˈdevəl]
NOUN
the Devil (noun)
(in Christian and Jewish belief) the chief evil spirit; Satan.
synonyms: Satan · Beelzebub · Lucifer · the Prince of Darkness · the Evil One ·[more]
Old Nick
an evil spirit; a demon.
synonyms: evil spirit · demon · fiend · bogie · spook
a very wicked or cruel person:
"they prefer voting for devils rather than for decent men"
synonyms: brute · beast · monster · fiend · villain · sadist · barbarian · ogre
a mischievously clever or self-willed person:
"the cunning old devil is up to something"
synonyms: rascal · rogue · imp · fiend · monkey · wretch · monster · horror ·[more]
scamp · tyke · varmint
informal
a person with specified characteristics:
"the poor devil" ·[more]
"a lucky devil"
synonyms: wretch · unfortunate · creature · soul · person · fellow · thing ·[more]
beggar
(the devil)
fighting spirit; wildness:
"he was dangerous when the devil was in him"
(the devil)
a thing that is very difficult or awkward to do or deal with:
"it's going to be the very devil to disentangle"
(the devil)
expressing surprise or annoyance in various questions or exclamations:
"“Where the devil is he?”"
an instrument or machine, especially one fitted with sharp teeth or spikes, used for tearing or other destructive work.
informal
dated
a junior assistant of a lawyer or other professional. See also printer's devil.
VERB
devils (third person present) · devilled (past tense) · devilled (past participle) · devilling (present participle) · deviled (past tense) · deviled (past participle) · deviling (present participle)
informal
dated
act as a junior assistant for a lawyer or other professional.
NORTH AMERICAN
harass or worry (someone):
"he was deviled by a new-found fear"
Seems pretty darn interchangeable to me.
Now, Canadian Bacon, on the other hand....
Canadian Bacon: Pork Loin. Canadian bacon is more like ham than the streaky cured and smoked strips of bacon that most of us are used to. American bacon comes from the fatty belly of the pig while Canadian bacon is typically cut from the loin.
In AD&D, Devils are Lawful Evil and Demons are Chaotic Evil...
Which makes Devils better team players that prefer order and love the twisted art of deal making, while Demons are pretty much in it for themselves, and are much more prone to wanton destruction.
Succubi are typically Chaotic Evil, and they prefer seduction and guile while shying away from combat, but there are outliers. Fall From Grace went the Lawful Neutral route, turning her back on her demonic nature. Serena just likes fashion... Not sure about Violet yet (pictured above), she's less than a day old.
Sorry, had to get my RPG Geek on there!
That sounds good, but again, in my perspective, demons and devils aren't the same. You don't have to ascribe to that belief, it's ok, really it is. Despite the differing of opnions I got what I need, thanks to all your input. We can all agree to disagree now, or rather, y'all can agree to disagree with me because y'all seem to be on the same page. I'll be different, I don't mind!
When I get around to rendering the image I'll post it. You might see a devil, to me it'll be a demon ;)
If I were to try and emulate the pictures I would get the Succubus addon bring the textures over to GIMP or photoshop and change the red to purple, then do the same thing with the skin texture of any character or use Skin Builder 3 which automates things for you and lets you mix different shades of color between limbs and torso. Then use Aiko shape for the face or one of the many elf like faces or whatever else you may have.
Edit: here is a quick example using Skin Builder and Succubus addon with some random armor, Girl 7/Aiko 7 mix.
To the large majority of people the differences you are describing are likely to be vague and small. You are, afterall, describing an imaginary creature (unless you know different from personal experience ;)
You would be better off sticking to showing examples of the type of character you do and do not want to see made.
I would like to see more she devil succubis demonic creature just not a random red or grey skined she would half to have truely evil looking skin and scary looking so at night u would half to check under your bed lol
I look forward to seeing your render :)
Cool idea
Of the four images you post, the first three images are confusing. The middle two are somewhat consistent, except for skin colour. The first is an anime style figure suggestive of succubi. The forth one is very similar in some respects to the second image, but generally its a WoW character so I'm ignoring it. :)
The trouble: all are different enough to make what you are looking for open to interpretation; to have a succubus look like all the images it would need to be four succubi.
Stick with you favourite image of those you've posted; tell us what is right about it, and what is wrong.
I also consider you are confused over terminology. There is one devil (from a christian perspective) and a multitude of demons; other religions and still other mythologies may differ. The confusion over the term devil when referring to demons may actually be a mis-translation.
So all in all, there are many interpretations, and hundreds and thousands (perhaps) years of mythology, you images (I'm sorry to say) aren't similar enough - like I said, pick an image, break it down.