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Suggestion - Mesh based D-Formers

nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 793
in Daz Studio Discussion

I do not know if this has been suggested previously...

I think it would be a extremely useful to be able to designate (via Geometry Editor?) areas of a mesh as "D-Former", and other areas of other meshes as "Targets" on which the D-Former would act.  A couple of examples of this feature's usefulness are:

1. Designate G8's buttocks and back of thighs as a D-Former and a couch as the Target.  The result would be to create a natural, sitting depression in the couch for G8 sitting poses.

2. Designate G8 #1's palms and fingers as a D-Former and G8 #2's arm as the Target.  This would result in a natural grip depresssion when G8 #1 grabbed G8 #2's arm.

The D-Former parameters would be simple - Magnitude and Falloff along the normals and Falloff around the edges.

Any other ideas, anyone?

 

Comments

  • ben98120000ben98120000 Posts: 469

    Perhaps ( I didnt try it) this product will be of use for that: https://www.daz3d.com/simtenero-shape-reprojector

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 793

    SimTenero Shape Reprojector is not quite what I had in mind...  I want one object to D-Form another object.  The effects of the D-Form would stregthen as the two came in contact with each other - Just like a person sitting on a couch on lying on a bed.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526

    I see what you expect.

     but it is not easy. it seems almost physics simulation (collision soft body between two poligons which include in one, and limit influence with vertex group) I feel.  

    it may not be achieved easy  I think, but those idea have many possiblity.   (but at first, we need D-former which at least work for posed atached hair,,and Real IK system I think)

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 793
    kitakoredaz said:

    I see what you expect.

     but it is not easy. it seems almost physics simulation (collision soft body between two poligons which include in one, and limit influence with vertex group) I feel.  

    it may not be achieved easy  I think, but those idea have many possiblity.   (but at first, we need D-former which at least work for posed atached hair,,and Real IK system I think)

    Yes!!  However, the physics simulation presently exists in limited form - DAZ Dynamic Cloth and mCasual's physics-based scripts.  D-Formers probably impement a simple form of physics simulation, which I think would be adequate for the purposes I have described.  On the plus-side, D-Formers already exist is DS and are understood by most people.  If D-Formers could take an arbitrary mesh-defined shape rather than be confined to ellipsoidal form, we would achieve our objective. 

    For posed hair, parts of the model's body and clothes, and possibly the ground (to simulate gravity) coud be designated as D-Formers, with the hair as the target.  This would at least give the hair a more natural pose. 

    IK would be nice, but how long have they been working at it for DS? 

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 4,449

    D-Former does not do any physics simulations it is just a proportional edit tool.  The Smoothing Modifier does do collision but only between two entire meshes, the source the modifier is applied to and the collision target.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526

    I think, if DAZ improve smooth modifier, at least add weight map, as same as other mesh edit tool,

    we can use it for those purpose. 

    I can use geometry shell ,as hidden collision target.  and actor mesh can set  as souse. the problem is , smooth modifier dform all mesh. then corrupt eye or some mesh shape. 

    to remove those, we everytime need to change as morph, then removed effect morph vertices, (or use morph import option).  it is not useful, if we hope auto-deform, with posing.  

    If daz offer, influence weight map, which can limit source mesh, and collision target mesh, by 2 separate color map,

     smooth modifier have already some hidden option, to adjust influence way. (may need more variation, I hope,, eg graph curve to decide influence shape etc)

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 793
    jestmart said:

    D-Former does not do any physics simulations it is just a proportional edit tool.  The Smoothing Modifier does do collision but only between two entire meshes, the source the modifier is applied to and the collision target.

     

    kitakoredaz said:

    I think, if DAZ improve smooth modifier, at least add weight map, as same as other mesh edit tool,

    we can use it for those purpose. 

    I can use geometry shell ,as hidden collision target.  and actor mesh can set  as souse. the problem is , smooth modifier dform all mesh. then corrupt eye or some mesh shape. 

    to remove those, we everytime need to change as morph, then removed effect morph vertices, (or use morph import option).  it is not useful, if we hope auto-deform, with posing.  

    If daz offer, influence weight map, which can limit source mesh, and collision target mesh, by 2 separate color map,

     smooth modifier have already some hidden option, to adjust influence way. (may need more variation, I hope,, eg graph curve to decide influence shape etc)

    In my view (that of an old Poser user), D-Formers model magnetism, which is physically-based.  D-Formers implement this magnetism based on an elipsoidal shape, with size, shape variance, power, area of influence (field), and falloff as the parameters.  Basically, they are a limited Influence Weight Map. 

    I do not understand the smoothing modifier as well as I do D-Formers, because I have never seen a good explanation of its parameters.  In my opinion, the smoothing modifier needs a way to specify layering on multiple figures.  For example - hair over clothes over figure.  Also it needs a way to specify what parts of the figures are involved in the collision.  I have seen strange things happen when a hand is place on a dress with a smooting modifier applied!!

  • jestmartjestmart Posts: 4,449

    Magnets was just a clever name it is just an edit with fall off which is a proportional edit.

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 793
    jestmart said:

    Magnets was just a clever name it is just an edit with fall off which is a proportional edit.

    OK, I will re-phrase - I want a mesh-based "Edit Falloff", defined by the Geometry editor, acting in the direction of the normals (possibly modified by the Normal Map), with the ability to layer the meshes that it acts on.  How about it DAZ?

  • Silver DolphinSilver Dolphin Posts: 1,616
    nakamuram002 said:
    jestmart said:

    Magnets was just a clever name it is just an edit with fall off which is a proportional edit.

    OK, I will re-phrase - I want a mesh-based "Edit Falloff", defined by the Geometry editor, acting in the direction of the normals (possibly modified by the Normal Map), with the ability to layer the meshes that it acts on.  How about it DAZ?

    Add a ticket as a feature request with Daz.

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited July 2017

    I hope daz offer new smooth tool, which can limit with vertex weight. then it is not matter which tool daz enhance, and how name it.

    nowdays I set up many jcm for improted character,  then tred of somehow. 

    But I happend to remember blender smooth modifier, it can work with vertex weight, (I seldom use this modifer before,, I forgot it is useful to deform with posing ,

    it can ease to set many driver for JCM,,) , it is as if we can auto apply zone smoother. I think daz can offer  limit smooth modifer effect,  first of all.

    (because add wegiht map for ds smooth modifer seems not so difficult things,, compare with IK rig or physics simulation etc,,)

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    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
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