Cross Compatability

benhalkum

How about getting back to your roots and letting those who enjoy Poser's UI over Daz utilize your newer figures? Poser versions of your newer figures would be awesome. Even if say the "Poser Version" of Mike 8 would be just an upgraded Mike 4 that let you use M8 textures and such would be great.

Like, I could see people being OK with a disclaimer that to get the full experience use Daz, but hey.. heres something for you other guys.

Richard Haseltine

Poser doesn't support some of the features used in Genesis 3 and 8. it also doesn't support GeoGrafting, which (in addition to rendering soem products unusable) would preclude the main way of making the Genesis 3/8 surface grouping available on older figuers (UVs are no problem, except that I don't think Poser has a way to load them to a figure with a different UV set, but the breaks between maps is different on the older figures - fourth generation up to Genesis 2 - and the new). Even if textures could be matched, morphs couldn't and nor could fitted items which would be extremely limiting in any proposed cross-compatible figure.

Daywalker Designs

Richard Haseltine said:

Poser doesn't support some of the features used in Genesis 3 and 8. it also doesn't support GeoGrafting, which (in addition to rendering soem products unusable) would preclude the main way of making the Genesis 3/8 surface grouping available on older figuers (UVs are no problem, except that I don't think Poser has a way to load them to a figure with a different UV set, but the breaks between maps is different on the older figures - fourth generation up to Genesis 2 - and the new). Even if textures could be matched, morphs couldn't and nor could fitted items which would be extremely limiting in any proposed cross-compatible figure.

People like the OP that ask for this won't be upset that they aren't getting the full experience; they want to be able to buy the newer figures and content for them just as much as those that use DAZ Studio exclusively.

wolf359

There is an an entire forum over at "rosity" for discussion
of how to use the free utility over there to get G3 into poser.
I believe they have adopted it for G8 as well.

"People like the OP that ask for this won't
 be upset that they aren't getting the full
 experience; they want to be able to buy
the newer figures and content for them 
just as much as those that use DAZ Studio exclusively."

Any piece of clothing or highly useful add-on by ZEV0 etc.,
that one may purchase in the Daz store, comes with the promise
that it has been tested in the latest  DS and will work with the figure
that Daz names in the "compatible figures" description.

In the rare case that a defective product slips through Daz testing
Daz will provide tech support through their ticket system to address the issue.

If Daz started selling some half functional poser version of G3/G8,
they will be obligated to provide tech support and deploy vital resources
to supporting an application environment they do not control (Poser)
Not only for the figures but the Daz PA content and somehow Force their PA's
to install the latest poser to test compatibility etc.

For Daz to  even attempt this would be a fools gambit IMHO

Daz Studio Exports its 3D content to industry Standard formats.(.obj,FBX,MDD,alembi etc)

Daz is NOT responsible for those of us, Like myself ,who prefer to use other software to render
our Daz content stills & animations ,and we have to be willing endure the vicissitudes of making it work in 
our preferred application either by one of the industry standard export formats or by depending on third party hacks/ converters etc
 ...or keep it in Daz studio where it was designed to function fully.

Sorry but this is the way of the world.

 

Daywalker Designs

wolf359 said:

There is an an entire forum over at "rosity" for discussion
of how to use the free utility over there to get G3 into poser.
I believe they have adopted it for G8 as well.

Yes, and there are still people that would prefer Poser Native versions of Genesis 3 and Genesis 8.

wolf359 said:

"People like the OP that ask for this won't
 be upset that they aren't getting the full
 experience; they want to be able to buy
the newer figures and content for them 
just as much as those that use DAZ Studio exclusively."

Any piece of clothing or highly useful add-on by ZEV0 etc.,
that one may purchase in the Daz store, comes with the promise
that it has been tested in the latest  DS and will work with the figure
that Daz names in the "compatible figures" description.

In the rare case that a defective product slips through Daz testing
Daz will provide tech support through their ticket system to address the issue.

If Daz started selling some half functional poser version of G3/G8,
they will be obligated to provide tech support and deploy vital resources
to supporting an application environment they do not control (Poser)
Not only for the figures but the Daz PA content and somehow Force their PA's
to install the latest poser to test compatibility etc.

For Daz to  even attempt this would be a fools gambit IMHO

Daz Studio Exports its 3D content to industry Standard formats.(.obj,FBX,MDD,alembi etc)

Daz is NOT responsible for those of us, Like myself ,who prefer to use other software to render
our Daz content stills & animations ,and we have to be willing endure the vicissitudes of making it work in 
our preferred application either by one of the industry standard export formats or by depending on third party hacks/ converters etc
 ...or keep it in Daz studio where it was designed to function fully.

Sorry but this is the way of the world.

 

And as I stated, there are people that don't care that a Poser compatible version of Genesis 3 or Genesis 8 won't have access to things like Autofit or geografting, since Poser itself may have features that counteract the missing features (the Cloth Room and buit in dynamic cloth support take the place of the first one). The only reason folks think otherwise is because the idea that folks using Poser wouldn't miss what DS users consider essential has been classified as preposterous by those that want Poser and its users to go away.

Male-M3dia

I think this is a question that really needs to go to smith micro to add what's is needed to get genesis running in Poser. DAZ's development team isn't large enough to support two versions of figures, particularly when sales are much lower for Poser users. In the meantime, the forum at rendo for converting G3 and G8 figures to Poser really is their best bet.

Daywalker Designs

Male-M3dia said:

I think this is a question that really needs to go to smith micro to add what's is needed to get genesis running in Poser. DAZ's development team isn't large enough to support two versions of figures, particularly when sales are much lower for Poser users. In the meantime, the forum at rendo for converting G3 and G8 figures to Poser really is their best bet.

I used to think this way, but then I realized the Smith Micro isn't obligated to support a competitive figure to that degree, because they would have no financial incentive to do so, whereas it would be of benefit for DAZ3D to develop a native Poser version of the figures. Poser users want to buy here, but don't because there is little that will work natively in Poser anymore.

namffuak

daywalker03 said:

Male-M3dia said:

I think this is a question that really needs to go to smith micro to add what's is needed to get genesis running in Poser. DAZ's development team isn't large enough to support two versions of figures, particularly when sales are much lower for Poser users. In the meantime, the forum at rendo for converting G3 and G8 figures to Poser really is their best bet.

I used to think this way, but then I realized the Smith Micro isn't obligated to support a competitive figure to that degree, because they would have no financial incentive to do so, whereas it would be of benefit for DAZ3D to develop a native Poser version of the figures. Poser users want to buy here, but don't because there is little that will work natively in Poser anymore.

But the problem is that a 'compatible' G3 or G8 - won't be a version that can use the G3 or G8 items sold here. The PAs would still need to do two different setups, with two different sets of materials and rigging - or more, depending on how many different versions of Poser they'd need to support. And Poser support here is already declining because the content sales don't justify the creation time and effort.. The ball is very much in Smith Micro's court.

Daywalker Designs

namffuak said:

daywalker03 said:

Male-M3dia said:

I think this is a question that really needs to go to smith micro to add what's is needed to get genesis running in Poser. DAZ's development team isn't large enough to support two versions of figures, particularly when sales are much lower for Poser users. In the meantime, the forum at rendo for converting G3 and G8 figures to Poser really is their best bet.

I used to think this way, but then I realized the Smith Micro isn't obligated to support a competitive figure to that degree, because they would have no financial incentive to do so, whereas it would be of benefit for DAZ3D to develop a native Poser version of the figures. Poser users want to buy here, but don't because there is little that will work natively in Poser anymore.

But the problem is that a 'compatible' G3 or G8 - won't be a version that can use the G3 or G8 items sold here. The PAs would still need to do two different setups, with two different sets of materials and rigging - or more, depending on how many different versions of Poser they'd need to support. And Poser support here is already declining because the content sales don't justify the creation time and effort.. The ball is very much in Smith Micro's court.

Nope, it's in DAZ's court, since Smith Micro has very clearly decided not to license the tech because there is no financial benefit to them to do so. And as long as there is no Poser native content, there won't be many Poser users that buy here, because they don't see the benefit of doing the conversion to be able to use Genesis content in Poser.

FSMCDesigns

daywalker03 said:

namffuak said:

daywalker03 said:

Male-M3dia said:

I think this is a question that really needs to go to smith micro to add what's is needed to get genesis running in Poser. DAZ's development team isn't large enough to support two versions of figures, particularly when sales are much lower for Poser users. In the meantime, the forum at rendo for converting G3 and G8 figures to Poser really is their best bet.

I used to think this way, but then I realized the Smith Micro isn't obligated to support a competitive figure to that degree, because they would have no financial incentive to do so, whereas it would be of benefit for DAZ3D to develop a native Poser version of the figures. Poser users want to buy here, but don't because there is little that will work natively in Poser anymore.

But the problem is that a 'compatible' G3 or G8 - won't be a version that can use the G3 or G8 items sold here. The PAs would still need to do two different setups, with two different sets of materials and rigging - or more, depending on how many different versions of Poser they'd need to support. And Poser support here is already declining because the content sales don't justify the creation time and effort.. The ball is very much in Smith Micro's court.

Nope, it's in DAZ's court, since Smith Micro has very clearly decided not to license the tech because there is no financial benefit to them to do so. And as long as there is no Poser native content, there won't be many Poser users that buy here, because they don't see the benefit of doing the conversion to be able to use Genesis content in Poser.

I can see the financial benefit to both sides. For DAZ more content sales to those that prefer poser, but obviously they didn't think that was significant or they wouldn't have gone the route they did with genesis 1. For Smith Micro, it's beneficial as it would sell more copies of Poser since there are clearly many users that prefer the Poser UI and it makes me wonder how many that struggle with DS would jump at a chance to go back to Poser and use the latest content natively. If anything I see more of a finacial benefit to Smith Micro if they had the resources to make G8 work perfectly in poser as it does in DS. If they marketed their new poser version with native G8 support and poser features, it would probably really boost their sales

Daywalker Designs

FSMCDesigns said:

I can see the financial benefit to both sides. For DAZ more content sales to those that prefer poser, but obviously they didn't think that was significant or they wouldn't have gone the route they did with genesis 1.

Maybe, but apparenntly they were wrong, as at least one other store does take the time to support both sets of users with versions of their figures in the native format of their chosen tool.

FSMCDesigns said:

For Smith Micro, it's beneficial as it would sell more copies of Poser since there are clearly many users that prefer the Poser UI and it makes me wonder how many that struggle with DS would jump at a chance to go back to Poser and use the latest content natively. If anything I see more of a finacial benefit to Smith Micro if they had the resources to make G8 work perfectly in poser as it does in DS. If they marketed their new poser version with native G8 support and poser features, it would probably really boost their sales

Then why haven't they added support for DAZ's native format in the past 6 years? Why is the only option to do so either the DSON Importer plugin from DAZ or a combination of that and third party tools?

Chohole

It was said, many many times, back when Daz first released the Genesis technology with the oiriginal Genesis, that they had offered SM the tech to allow them to develop hand  in hand with Daz, as it had always been.  It was SM who decided to take their own developmental route, rather than working alongside Daz.  DSON was a compromise on Daz' side to allow Genesis to function in Poser.

Leana

daywalker03 said:

FSMCDesigns said:

I can see the financial benefit to both sides. For DAZ more content sales to those that prefer poser, but obviously they didn't think that was significant or they wouldn't have gone the route they did with genesis 1.

Maybe, but apparenntly they were wrong, as at least one other store does take the time to support both sets of users with versions of their figures in the native format of their chosen tool.

Base figure and morph packs are provided in both formats for those figures, but almost none of the add-ons provided by the vendors are...

Male-M3dia

daywalker03 said:

namffuak said:

daywalker03 said:

Male-M3dia said:

I think this is a question that really needs to go to smith micro to add what's is needed to get genesis running in Poser. DAZ's development team isn't large enough to support two versions of figures, particularly when sales are much lower for Poser users. In the meantime, the forum at rendo for converting G3 and G8 figures to Poser really is their best bet.

I used to think this way, but then I realized the Smith Micro isn't obligated to support a competitive figure to that degree, because they would have no financial incentive to do so, whereas it would be of benefit for DAZ3D to develop a native Poser version of the figures. Poser users want to buy here, but don't because there is little that will work natively in Poser anymore.

But the problem is that a 'compatible' G3 or G8 - won't be a version that can use the G3 or G8 items sold here. The PAs would still need to do two different setups, with two different sets of materials and rigging - or more, depending on how many different versions of Poser they'd need to support. And Poser support here is already declining because the content sales don't justify the creation time and effort.. The ball is very much in Smith Micro's court.

Nope, it's in DAZ's court, since Smith Micro has very clearly decided not to license the tech because there is no financial benefit to them to do so. And as long as there is no Poser native content, there won't be many Poser users that buy here, because they don't see the benefit of doing the conversion to be able to use Genesis content in Poser.

No, the ball is in SM's court. It's no longer financially feasible for DAZ to make it work in poser, hence Genesis 3 and Genesis 8.

wolf359

"It was said, many many times, back when Daz first
 released the Genesis technology with the oiriginal Genesis, 
that they had offered SM the tech to allow them to develop
 hand  in hand with Daz, as it had always been.  
It was SM who decided to take their own developmental route,
 rather than working alongside Daz.  DSON was a compromise
 on Daz' side to allow Genesis to function in Poser"

+1 Exactly.
lets be  honest with our terminology here.

Whenever this subject comes up, it gets discussed in term of "making
genesis work in poser" or a "poser version of genesis"

Both terms avoid the reality of what is literally being requested.

"Poser versions of your newer figures would be awesome.
Even if say the "Poser Version" of Mike 8 
would be just an upgraded Mike 4 that
 let you use M8 textures and such would be great."

The OP is asking that Daz should change its current business model
and go back into the business of making poser figures & content.

Obviously if Daz saw any potential for growth  in the business of making poser
figures& content they would do so.
.
Look at the continuing effort they are making to enter the multi billion dollar
Game asset market with "Morph3D"

This emotional tribalists argument of who should concede or blink first, Smith Micro or Daz,
is rather moot.

Someone at Daz has looked at the state of the  3D content market and did the math
and made a straight forward financial/ business decision no different
from the decisions made by Stonemason or Rawart , or whomever, to cease develop for poser

There are three decent quality poser figures in development
over in the poser community,
"project E"  a female by "Erogenese ?? 
and "Venus& Orion"a male & female by  poser developer "Ambient Shade"

Perhaps the poser community should consider Crowd funding those 
talented developers via Patreon or similar, to insure they have to resources
& time to bring those new poser figure to market in a sustsainable way
and  avoid them suffering the fate of so many other indie poser figures that have come and gone.