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PZ3 in Carrara? (And/or Optitex clothing in Carrara)

ReDaveReDave Posts: 815
edited April 2013 in Carrara Discussion

Hello everyone!
I was wondering how PZ3's perform in Carrara? Does weight mapping (Genesis, say) transfer at all, or does the rig have to be redone?

Post edited by ReDave on
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Comments

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Check http://carraracafe.com/ I know I read someplace about a plugin for poser weightmaped figures.

    Carrara 8.5 can use genesis directly.

    Most pz3s open fine. Some times you have to have restraints off for them to open right.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    Hi reDave :)

    Poser 9 and 2012, but use the DSON plugin converter to use genesis,..

    Carrara doesn't need the DSON converter, and cannot read (Poser) files saved with genesis imported using the DSON plugin,..

    Poser files using the DSON plugin will only open and work in Poser,.. if the DSON Plugin is available to transfer the data to Poser.


    Carrara 8.5 (Beta) will load Genesis and all smart content from the (Smart content) browser in Carrara, just as you would in Daz Studio.
    so, there''s no need to transfer (import) a Poser scene, or a Daz Studio Scene... into Carrara,.

    The figures, clothing , hair etc.. can all be loaded using the browser.

    Also,. since the change in weight mapping in Poser,.. any new (poser) figures which use that weight mapping, won't work well in Carrara.

    Poser Scenes made in older versions of poser will import into carrara,. but they create a "Universe" (from poser) inside Carrara's own Universe,. which can be confusing.
    it's easier and a better work-flow to use the carrara browser to access your poser Runtime folder, and create your scene in carrara.

    hope it helps :)

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited December 1969

    A caveat or two, some characters, especially some not tested or guaranteed to work in DAZ Studio, will not load correctly in Carrara. You can load those in Poser, save as a new figure and then import into Carrara and they will then be fine and you can save them in Carrara for future use as a Carrara file with no problems (other than the usual tweaks for specularity, etc., though I find the Poser green issue doesn't seem to come in when you import a character that way so the color doesn't need tweaking, at least with ones I've done). Usually it has something to do with some missing code in the injection files. Some morphs also do not work in Carrara... those, too, will work in Poser and you can export as a pz3. Carrara is more finicky about the code in the injection files than Poser. There is also a Fenric script that can fix some morph issues, but not all according to I think Fenric himself, if I remember correctly.

  • ReDaveReDave Posts: 815
    edited December 1969

    Thank you all for your help. The problem is that the animation is supposed to start in DS (the animators knowing that program rather well ;-) ), using some Genesis and V4/M4, with Optitex clothing, then the idea would be to export to Carrara for hair and rendering. PZ3 came up with in the conversation with the commissioner as a method that should be in principle very reliable, as a back-up plan in case duf/fbx should fail.
    I know that DS can export a weight mapped CR2 of Genesis, which I just tried in the Carrara beta. I have no previous experience with Carrara but this CR2 Genesis looks slightly distorted to me when posed, with things that look like ridges on the torso. And of course that is still without Poser in the equation.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    Hi ReDave :)

    For what you want to do,.. Using DS 4.5 and saving the scenes as DUF,. then you can Open those in Carrara 8.5 beta

    this should also handle any Optitex dynamic clothing, once it's been frozen and converted.

    Alternatively,. you can use the Aniblock importer, for carrara. and the Poser Format Exporter from DS to export the poses and animations into Carrara,. since you're using V4/M4 etc.. those figures can be loaded directly from the browser in Carrara,. without importing.

    You can export poses or animation from Daz Studio,. in PZ2 format,. which Carrara can open.
    or,..
    you can create Aniblocks from your animations in Daz Studio,. and Carrara (with the aniblock importer plugin) can import those animations as keyframes,. ...which can also be converted and saved as carrara NLA (non linear animation) files. (like aniblocks in carrara)

    Genesis opens from the Browser in Carrara 8.5,.. so there's no need to import genesis from DS. to get it into Carrara

    Exporting a weight mapped CR2 (poser file) isn't even recommended for poser users,. since DAZ released the DSON plugin for Poser 9 and 2012 which allows poser users to load genesis, and content,.. directly from the browser.

    hope that makes sense :)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,578
    edited December 1969

    I was under the impression that Carrara 8.5 would gain the ability to use the Poser DSON files as well, due to this news report:

    Carrara 8.5 will include:
    - Support for up to Windows 8 and OSX 10.8
    - DSON support
    – Metadata support
    - New animation tools (keyframe tool improvements, smoothing, keying every frame, etc.)
    - Graph editor improvements
    - Improvements to viewport avatars (Lights – spotlight, sun, moon, etc. Cameras – Conical, Isometric, etc.)
    -JUST IN: Improved bullet simulation for soft bodies

    Source: Steve Spencer, Director of Sales and Marketing at Daz3d.

    More details in the Daz3D forums.


    /3drendero

    Do you think this is what they mean?
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    Hi Dartanbeck :)

    Genesis DSF is a DSON format ,... DUF is also a DSON format ... anything from DS4 onwards is DSON

    So,. DS uses DUF,. and Carrara can use DUF,. and with the Poser DSON plugin, so can Poser users,.

    But,. Poser needs a plugin,. since there are some major differences in the way Poser and (DS and Carrara) now work.
    the Poser DSON plugin, allows Poser 9 and Poser Pro 2012 users, to work with Genesis, and all the new content directly in Poser.

    But ..Poser scenes, using genesis,. will need the Poser DSON Plugin,... to load into Poser, and won't work in anything else.

    Carrara 8.5 has been re-built to support genesis, and that includes all the DSON formats,...so, there's no need for a plugin. ..it's there already.

    :)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,578
    edited December 1969

    I new already that 8.5 can just load Genesis... but always thought of DSON as the Poser version, since that's when I first saw the term used. Thanks for clearing that up. :)

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    3DAGE said:
    Hi ReDave :)

    For what you want to do,.. Using DS 4.5 and saving the scenes as DUF,. then you can Open those in Carrara 8.5 beta

    this should also handle any Optitex dynamic clothing, once it's been frozen and converted.

    Only for stills, not animation. >:-(

    Post edited by ManStan on
  • ReDaveReDave Posts: 815
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:
    Hi ReDave :)

    For what you want to do,.. Using DS 4.5 and saving the scenes as DUF,. then you can Open those in Carrara 8.5 beta

    this should also handle any Optitex dynamic clothing, once it's been frozen and converted.<----- Converted to what format?</p>

    hope that makes sense :)

    Yes makes plenty of sense, thank you!!!

    @Manley: what fails to transfer in the animation? :-S

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,578
    edited December 1969

    ReDave said:
    3DAGE said:
    Hi ReDave :)

    For what you want to do,.. Using DS 4.5 and saving the scenes as DUF,. then you can Open those in Carrara 8.5 beta

    this should also handle any Optitex dynamic clothing, once it's been frozen and converted.

    <----- Converted to what format?<br /> I believe he meant to save it to DUF, which you can do in Daz Studio
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    3DAGE said:
    Hi ReDave :)

    For what you want to do,.. Using DS 4.5 and saving the scenes as DUF,. then you can Open those in Carrara 8.5 beta

    this should also handle any Optitex dynamic clothing, once it's been frozen and converted.

    Only for stills, not animation. >:-(

    Optitex dynamic clothing does not work in Carrara - cloth tears .
    and to add you have to Bake and Freeze in DS first - then save as DUF ..

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    bigh said:
    ManStan said:
    3DAGE said:
    Hi ReDave :)

    For what you want to do,.. Using DS 4.5 and saving the scenes as DUF,. then you can Open those in Carrara 8.5 beta

    this should also handle any Optitex dynamic clothing, once it's been frozen and converted.

    Only for stills, not animation. >:-(

    Optitex dynamic clothing does not work in Carrara - cloth tears .
    and to add you have to Bake and Freeze in DS first - then save as DUF ..

    I don't get tearing. I can run the clothing sim in studio,{ bake to key frame before running the drape. then freeze the drape}, save as DUF. Open in carrara and run it. The clothing blasts off the character and in to the either till the last frame. I'll have a new video of this shortly. The one I have on yourtube is about a year old.

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    HI Re Dave

    When you simulate Optitex cloth in Daz Studio,. and you want to transfer that out to another program,. then the simulation data needs to be "Frozen",. part of that is creating the Key-frame animation data from the simulation,. and the other part is "converting" the dynamic cloth (mesh) into a series of shape morphs.(one for each frame).. This is all done as part of "Freeze simulation"

    Now it's no longer a dynamic simulation,. it's a series of shaped meshes and animation keyframes.


    Big H :)

    Soft-body physics in carrara can cause a tearing or stuck sections of a model,. but I'm not sure if you're meaning Optitex clothing from DS into carrara,. or Carrara soft-body physics being used as a cloth like item.

    Stan :)

    The clothing blasts off the character and in to the either till the last frame

    this sounds like what can happen when you start a soft body physics simulation in carrara. (the softbody reacts to the bone influences)

    You don't need to,. and shouldn't ever try to run a physics simulation on an dynamic clothing item imported from DS.
    it's not dynamic in Carrara,. it's a rigid model with shape morphs.

    By freezing the simulation in DS,. then importing that DUF Scene file into Carrara 8.5 (beta) you should get the complete animation of the models,. ready to render.

    As for animation,. it's working for me,. so,.. what Optitex items are you using?

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,578
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:

    By freezing the simulation in DS,. then importing that DUF Scene file into Carrara 8.5 (beta) you should get the complete animation of the models,. ready to render.

    As for animation,. it's working for me,. so,.. what Optitex items are you using?

    Hi 3dage,
    By the last statement in the above quote, do you mean that Optitex Dynamic clothing animations from D|S with render in Carrara by means of DUF?
  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    No 3dage. In this case I do know what I am doing. This is the exact same thing that happened after DAZ borked the operation. This is the exact same issue I have been pointing out for over a year; I believe it's going on 2 years. {also note, bullet physics doesn't do that in C8.5}
    The issue has always been the clothes baked/freeze to the figure in Studio, but DUF does not transfer this info. So in carrara the clothes fly off to some place and then come back draped right in the last frame.

    I tried this again last night to give a new example, but I got an I/O error on import to carrara.

    Now if anyone can actually get this to work, lets see the video. Because for me it hasn't worked since DAZ borked collada with the studio 3.? and carrara 8.1 updates. And DUF doesn't work for it any better, in fact it has the same results. {although I don't use collada at all now, DAZ completely borked it in Studio 4}.

    Yet something else DAZ borked and seems quite disinclined to fix. Like the dynamic hair in carrara they screwed up in C7. I only use dynamic hair in very light to empty scenes. All it takes is one item in the scene with one flipped normal to complete screw up the hair. This is the sort of thing that blows any confidence in me for anything DAZ does.

    Post edited by ManStan on
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    No 3dage. In this case I do know what I am doing. This is the exact same thing that happened after DAZ borked the operation. This is the exact same issue I have been pointing out for over a year; I believe it's going on 2 years. {also note, bullet physics doesn't do that in C8.5}
    The issue has always been the clothes baked/freeze to the figure in Studio, but DUF does not transfer this info. So in carrara the clothes fly off to some place and then come back draped right in the last frame.

    I tried this again last night to give a new example, but I got an I/O error on import to carrara.

    Now if anyone can actually get this to work, lets see the video. Because for me it hasn't worked since DAZ borked collada with the studio 3.? and carrara 8.1 updates.

    did you try the new beta yet ?

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited April 2013

    bigh said:

    did you try the new beta yet ?

    Haven't seen hide nor hair of it yet.
    Just went to check my account to see if it was there and DAZ has changed that around lately and I can find shirt. Available downloads doesn't even seem to be an option now.

    OK, waded through it and found .204, I assume that is it. I'll get it downloaded and check but you know I am very pessimistic about it. I aught to check studio to see if I am up to date on it as well. But I would be willing to bet real money it doesn't work.

    Post edited by ManStan on
  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    Hi Stan ..

    I do know,. tht you know what you're doing 9most of the time) :),.. but I had to ask...

    Anyway,...

    Quick test using the optitex "Trinity" coat (simulated in DS4.5) then exported as a saved DS scene (duf)
    then imported into Carrara 8.5 beta, to render.

    slowed down in AE


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=UUY6SVlckyR6O4RfAprJEi7w&v=ohrtaulDKiY

    hope it works :)

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,311
    edited December 1969

    Just to add ...
    Stan,.. You should update DS4.5 and get the latest Carrara 8.5 beta.

    Both work. :)

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Got to download the latest version of studio as well. I sort of like the new account set up though.

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hay it worked :gulp: The clothes stayed on V4, a big step in the right direction. They didn't fit, none of V4s morphs worked so I couldn't make her fit the clothes, but the clothes actually stayed on her and reacted to the motion.

    Hot damn.

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    ManStan said:
    Hay it worked :gulp: The clothes stayed on V4, a big step in the right direction. They didn't fit, none of V4s morphs worked so I couldn't make her fit the clothes, but the clothes actually stayed on her and reacted to the motion.

    Hot damn.

    really - testing

    http://youtu.be/AurDc_dp94Y

  • ReDaveReDave Posts: 815
    edited December 1969

    OK, thanks. I've run a drape in DS with two clothes (Dynamic T for M4 and Dyn Suspenders for M5) and freezed simulation and saved as duf, but Carrara says there was "An I/O error occurring while executing Open". Any ideas? Filing a bug report as soon as I find a place to host the duf.

  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    ReDave said:
    OK, thanks. I've run a drape in DS with two clothes (Dynamic T for M4 and Dyn Suspenders for M5) and freezed simulation and saved as duf, but Carrara says there was "An I/O error occurring while executing Open". Any ideas? Filing a bug report as soon as I find a place to host the duf.

    did you Bake it before freeze ?

  • ReDaveReDave Posts: 815
    edited April 2013

    Yes, I did bake to Studio Keys. ;-)
    Bug report, with link to duf: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=50171

    Post edited by ReDave on
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    ReDave said:
    Yes, I did bake to Studio Keys. ;-)
    Bug report, with link to duf: https://bugs.daz3d.com/view.php?id=50171

    I see you are using a old version of DS - try the new version of DS please .

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 21,578
    edited December 1969

    I've never used the Optitex clothing before. Looks like it's time to try it.
    I knew Daz would fix this... I knew it! The developers working on the software are really good, and they want to please their fans... all of them.

  • ManStanManStan Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Yup they fixed it. Scrambled V4's shader zones though.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,247
    edited December 1969

    I had the same issues as Stan - i/o error. The latest Carrara Beta 8.5.0.24 fixed that, but the pokethrough is seriously bad and can't be fixed - still, a giant step in the right direction.

    Which is the latest version of Studio you guys recommend which may fix this? I've lost track of all the Studio versions and don't want to go wasting 480 megs on a download that does no good:)

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