Confusion over Figures, Models, Genesis 1-2-3 to 8, Victoria models and so on
scaljensen
Posts: 15
I'm fairly new into DAZ, and trying to orient myself in what fits what, and what is compatible with each other.
So far i'm seeing that starters start out with Genesis Starter figures, but what exactly is a Genesis figure?
Browsing the shop i can see several Characters/People like Victoria 8, Ophelia 8 etc, but also other characters like Victoria 4.2
However, some bundles like the Trefoil Eavan states it's for the Victoria 4.2 Base Figure, and not Genesis
This is incredibly confusing, since i thought Genesis was the figure, and Victoria the character? Where is the baseline? Is there any guides on this?
Could i fit the Trefoil Eavan to Victoria 8, since Genesis 8 is backwards compatible?
Exactly how many Figures have been released? From oldest to newest?
Looking around Youtube for guides and the forum in general, it seems Victoria 4.2 is a very old figure? So exactly what is the go-to framework here?
It seems like it could be incredibly easy to accidentally buy something that isn't compatible with what you're working with, so how can you know for sure exactly?
Thanks
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The FigureName Number figures up to 4 are in Poser format, the Victoria and Michael are stand-alone figure and for older gernations so are the others with the same number; the 4 series are all add-ons for Victoria 4 or Michael 4. Victoria 4.2 is the last update, in general anything for Victoria 4.x will work on 4.2.
The Genesis (unnumbered but effctively 1) figure and its successors are Daz Studio native figures. Victoria 5/Michael 5 and co. are add-ons for Genesis, Victoria 6/Michael 6 and co. are add-ons for Genesis 2 Female/Male, whatever 7 for Genesis 3, and then the latest generation has jumped the Genesis number to 8 so it matches the named figures (Victoria 8 and Michael 8 etc.).
There is a certain amount of backwrad compatibility - the Genesis figures, for example, come with clones for the previous generation that can convert clothing (the 8s include clones for all previous Genesises) and textures often carry over at least one generation - but each geenration is new mesh and rigging.
Another way of looking at the evolution of DAZ figures is like this.
Generations 1 to 4 are stand-alone figures comprised of unique meshes, bones, and maps. The popularity of generation 4 (eg. Victoria 4.2 & Michael 4) largely continues due to their compatibility with Poser.
Generation 5 is known as Genesis. These figures move from stand alone meshes to the use of morphs for unique character creation. This is also why Genesis characters are nomenclatured "5" (eg. Victoria 5, Michael 5, Aiko 5, etc). While a viable and inovative concept, Genesis revealed compatibility issues between male and female geometry when creating clothing and wearable items. Genesis is the only androgynous (neither male nor female) generation.
Generation 6 is known as Genesis 2. That is to say, it is the 6th generation of models and the 2nd generation of the Genesis concept. The characters are so named for the overall generation "6" (eg. Olympia 6, Lee 6, etc.). Genesis 2 also noted a return to seperate meshes for male and female geometry, yet they continue the Genesis concept where characters are morphed from the base mesh.
Generation 7 is known as Genesis 3 and continues the nomenclature to the next step; 7th generation overall, and 3rd generation Genesis. Characters are noted by "7". What was also noted was the increasing confusion about which assets were intended for which generation of meshes.
By this point, the nomenclatures became confusing enough. 4 is 4, 5 is 1, 6 is 2, and 7 is 3. DAZ responded by keeping with the overall generation rather than adding another step to the Genesis evolution. This also solved the potential confusion with "Genesis 4" (current models) being mistook for Generation 4 (Victoria 4, Michael 4). So, the newest generation was nomenclated for the overall generation "8". This makes character allignment simpler as well. All models and characters of the 8th generation are named as "8".
Okay, so i'm correct in my line of thinking, that Victoria 4 and Michael 4 is pre-genesis native models?
So Genesis is a new way for having native models?
Would it be possible to fit clothing/hair from previous/other figures to a Genesis 8/3 figure using fit? I can fit some of the Genesis 3 clothes to Genesis 8, but further back seems to cause clipping or the hair not being where it should.
Looking around i can something like magnet/fit, so i was think that maybe it's possible to make it snap properly and remove clipping?
Thanks
Yes.
AutoFit works back to Genesis, for fourth generation content you can either AutoFit to Genesis and then AutoFit that to Genesis 8 or you could wait to see if a PA brngs out clones for older figures. Any automated process is going to be hit-and-miss, I'm afraid, though adding a Smoothing Modifier (Edit>Figure>Geometry>Apply Smoothing Modifier) to the converted clothes and settings them, under Mesh Smoothing in the parametrs pane, to collide with the wearer can help a lot.
If I may, I'm still very new to this and am floundering about with which direction I should go base model wise.
So, If I'm reading this right...
Genesis 8 is the new Victoria/Michael 4.
Most anything from the Genesis/Genesis 2/Genesis 3 groups can be used (with a bit of fiddling) on Genesis 8, but not the other way around.
Anything labeled 6/7/8 is specifically for Genesis 8, while anything labeled 4/5/6 is specifically for Genesis "1"/2/3, respectively.
Now, in my own flailing about, I've seen that the Victoria 4.2/ Michael 4.2 combination have their own families (Stephanie, Hiro, The Girl, Freak, etc.) all of whick are based off of Victoria / Michael of the past. So here's my first actual question: would something from "back then," Stephanie 2, for example work on the Victoria 4.2 with a minimum of grief providing i have the right add on (Victoria 4.2++ morphs)?
Second question: Where should I be putting my resources when it comes to characters, since it's looking like the Victoria / Michael combo and Genesis 8 are becoming the standards?
Probably start with Gen 8. I decked out the G3F and I am sticking with her for a bit. But if My closet was bare, I'd take Gen 8. Since my G3F has add-ons that let me use cheap V4 stuff from platinum club, I am keeping with that for now. The only reason to go with G3 is add-ons are already out and a few things have yet to be done for gen 8. Gen 8 has some cool add-ons for fitting items from Sickleyeild that I really will enjoy when I move up to Gen 8. Platinum club membership is a must have thing for saving money and making this hobby affordable. Join platinum club first, then start getting morphs and Gen 8 stuff. If I were shopping today, I'd join the platinum club, then come back and I'd get the 200plus head morphs that are on sale for both male and female, the gen 8 head and body morphs and expressions that are on sale and you'll be off to a great start with Gen 8. Pro pack Micheal 8 and Victoria 8 are on sale as well with additional clones for fittings I think. Things go onsale here a lot. Buy when things are on a good sale. Build a wishlist and check it often and 50% to 70% off does happen. I broke down and got light sets for 47% off, I figured close enough. The old V4 items are very dated, I have to fit them and redo the textures and add new shaders for iray and that is costly in itself. But the genesis items are better and it sometimes pays to get quality items and use the platinum club artist coupons.
I have all the generations and I'd go Genesis 3 if I had to pick only one. Genesis 8 is backward compatible and can use the Genesis 3 items. There's also far more products for Genesis 3 and many vendors are doing both Genesis 3 and Genesis 8. The Genesis X2 product (and add ons) lets you bring other generations up to Genesis 3, so you can use older content. Whereas it's a pain to do it for Generation 8- the vendor passed away so you have to do it manually, by hand, to use previous generations.
Totally agree with belonging to the Platinum Club, if you don't already- you get $12 in coupons to use each month, greater discounts on Daz Originals, etc.
Im still confused. I have Michael 5 but I keep finding things labeled "Genesis 2" or "Genesis 3" and not michael 5. Not even the Michael 5 bundle says what genesis it is. How am I supposed to know what I can buy if nothing is clearly labeled Michael 5, 6, 7 or 8? .
Name 5 = Genesis
Name 6 = Genesis 2
Name 7 = Genesis 3
Name 8 = Genesis 8
Is there something out there that can convert in reverse and make a Gen 8 asset like hair fit to a Genesis/M5 figure? Or convert a Genesis/M5 figure into a Genesis 8?
Just to add my 2 cents and attempt to square away any confusion over the whole Model, Figure and Character thing. It can be confusing to the uninitiated because the lack of enforcement in the use of technical terms is rather rampant within the 3D community. A lot of it becomes jargon. Here is my unofficial take on things: a model is any 3D representation of a real world object, be it animal, mineral or vegetable. You can have a 3D tree, a 3D boulder or a 3D horse - they are all Models. Some people might use the term Figure synonomously with Model, but I find it less confusing to confine that to the rather special case of human 3D models. A Character is then a specific variation of a given Figure.
Genesis 8 Female (G8F) is a Figure. There are many Characters available in the store that are based directly on the Genesis 8 Female base Figure, produced by either DAZ3D themselves or one of their brokered artists. For example, Bellerose HD is a character by Mousso based on Genesis 8 Female. Characters produced by DAZ3D for G8F tend to be assigned a number as well as a name, for example Victoria 8 is really just a character morph of G8F just as Bellerose is. (Note that this is unlike Victoria 4, which was a Figure rather than just a Character. V4 was so popular for so long that the Victoria name was carried forward to the Genesis lineup of Figures, although she became a Character rather than a Figure from Genesis 1 onwards)
It is worth noting that some characters can themselves be variations of other characters which are based upon a given figure, which can result in some confusion. For example, there are many characters that are character morphs of Victoria 8, who in turn is a character morph of G8F. An example is FWSA Elizabeth HD for Victoria 8. To accurately recreate that character requires having both G8F and Victoria 8 in your content library. Such "characters based upon characters" tend to be confined to characters based upon one of the DAZ3D numbered characters.
Yes, there are some clones as in autofit clones available for sale in the store. I also have some, link to post in my siggie.
With the target figure selected, one loads the hair or clothing item and the "unsupported" popup appears. From that one selects the model that the item had been made for and autofit does its thing. Now, not all items convert nicely, some require a bit of work. If satisfied then one resaves the figure/prop [with a new name to an appropriate folder - not to overwrite any files] so one does not have to keep doing all that work.
I'm still confused. Many costumes and such state that Victoria 8 is a required procuct. I don't see in the DAZ catalogue anywhere to buy the basic Victoria 8 figure/ character or whatever it's called. Where is it in the catalogue and what is the very specific name/SKU?
Victoria 8 is here: https://www.daz3d.com/victoria-8
The base figure for Victoria 8 is Genesis 8 Female, available from the Genesis 8 Starter Essentials (free with Daz Studio): https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-8-starter-essentials
So if I already have Genesis 8 I don't need Victoria 8 for clothing that states that I need Victoria 8?
Almost certainly not. Very occasionally a piece might work with only the named character, though the only example I can think of was for one of the teen figures, but geenrally fitted items will work on the base. Characters wil probably use the named character shape as part of their shape, so using those without the named character will be more or less different in shape - but the materials should still be OK.