Daz to Maya question

Auroratrek

A Daz character brought into Maya doesn't change the mesh, just the method of animating and rendering it. Daz to Maya is just a plugin to get the character into Maya, to animate and render there, much like Interposer Pro for Cinema 4D, which I've been been using for almost a decade. If you follow the link in my signature you'll see Daz characters in Cinema 4D--not in Daz or Poser, but they're still recognizably Daz characters. I was just hoping to see some animation in Maya with Daz characters.

drzap

Auroratrek said:

A Daz character brought into Maya doesn't change the mesh, just the method of animating and rendering it. Daz to Maya is just a plugin to get the character into Maya, to animate and render there, much like Interposer Pro for Cinema 4D, which I've been been using for almost a decade. If you follow the link in my signature you'll see Daz characters in Cinema 4D--not in Daz or Poser, but they're still recognizably Daz characters. I was just hoping to see some animation in Maya with Daz characters.

Oooh, you want to see animation work from Maya users using DAZ characters.  Youtube is probably the best way.   Maya animators who are not students, tend to be in the professional CGI field and as a whole, they won't admit to touching DAZ characters with a 10 foot pole.  Student animators want to impress them with their demo reels, so I think you won't see much of their work using DAZ characters either.

Singular3D

Auroratrek said:

A Daz character brought into Maya doesn't change the mesh, just the method of animating and rendering it. Daz to Maya is just a plugin to get the character into Maya, to animate and render there, much like Interposer Pro for Cinema 4D, which I've been been using for almost a decade. If you follow the link in my signature you'll see Daz characters in Cinema 4D--not in Daz or Poser, but they're still recognizably Daz characters. I was just hoping to see some animation in Maya with Daz characters.

Interposer Pro was nice. Wish there was a similar tool for G3/8 and Cinema 4D. Should be much easier, as we have quaternion weighting and no more magnets for posing, like with V4.2.
Unfortunately the implementer of the software left it, as he complained about not getting enough support from Daz.

Auroratrek

drzap said:

Auroratrek said:

A Daz character brought into Maya doesn't change the mesh, just the method of animating and rendering it. Daz to Maya is just a plugin to get the character into Maya, to animate and render there, much like Interposer Pro for Cinema 4D, which I've been been using for almost a decade. If you follow the link in my signature you'll see Daz characters in Cinema 4D--not in Daz or Poser, but they're still recognizably Daz characters. I was just hoping to see some animation in Maya with Daz characters.

Oooh, you want to see animation work from Maya users using DAZ characters.  Youtube is probably the best way.   Maya animators who are not students, tend to be in the professional CGI field and as a whole, they won't admit to touching DAZ characters with a 10 foot pole.  Student animators want to impress them with their demo reels, so I think you won't see much of their work using DAZ characters either.

Yes, and yes, that's absolutely true--Daz (and Poser) is despised by "serious" animators--and it's a shame, since the Daz mesh is often as good or better than the figures used in a lot of these pro and student works. But a big part of the problem is that Daz has great characters, but their animation tools suck, so you rarely see them animated well. I use Daz figures, but animate them in Poser (whose own figures suck). But even the Poser animation tools--while better than Daz--are still crap compared to the pro tools, but I do the best I can, and can at least render in a pro application like Cinema 4D. I have always thought that if Daz played nice with a high-end program with high-end animation capabilities, their figures could finally shine, so this Maya plugin has me really intrigued. I am only cautiously optimistic, however, since my wife can tell you that my constant animation lament is that any solution I investigate to employ the Daz characters in a better workflow than I have now always falls flat in usually a single but crucial way, so, while I appreciate the discussion of this Maya plugin, the proof is in the pudding--I'd like to see some actual character animation in Maya--walking, sitting, talking--using this plugin to get the Daz characters there.

drzap

Auroratrek said:

drzap said:

Auroratrek said:

A Daz character brought into Maya doesn't change the mesh, just the method of animating and rendering it. Daz to Maya is just a plugin to get the character into Maya, to animate and render there, much like Interposer Pro for Cinema 4D, which I've been been using for almost a decade. If you follow the link in my signature you'll see Daz characters in Cinema 4D--not in Daz or Poser, but they're still recognizably Daz characters. I was just hoping to see some animation in Maya with Daz characters.

Oooh, you want to see animation work from Maya users using DAZ characters.  Youtube is probably the best way.   Maya animators who are not students, tend to be in the professional CGI field and as a whole, they won't admit to touching DAZ characters with a 10 foot pole.  Student animators want to impress them with their demo reels, so I think you won't see much of their work using DAZ characters either.

Yes, and yes, that's absolutely true--Daz (and Poser) is despised by "serious" animators--and it's a shame, since the Daz mesh is often as good or better than the figures used in a lot of these pro and student works. But a big part of the problem is that Daz has great characters, but their animation tools suck, so you rarely see them animated well. I use Daz figures, but animate them in Poser (whose own figures suck). But even the Poser animation tools--while better than Daz--are still crap compared to the pro tools, but I do the best I can, and can at least render in a pro application like Cinema 4D. I have always thought that if Daz played nice with a high-end program with high-end animation capabilities, their figures could finally shine, so this Maya plugin has me really intrigued. I am only cautiously optimistic, however, since my wife can tell you that my constant animation lament is that any solution I investigate to employ the Daz characters in a better workflow than I have now always falls flat in usually a single but crucial way, so, while I appreciate the discussion of this Maya plugin, the proof is in the pudding--I'd like to see some actual character animation in Maya--walking, sitting, talking--using this plugin to get the Daz characters there.

What you say is so true.  We share the same lament.  But you are asking the wrong question.  What you really want to know is if animating characters in Maya is worth it. Because a Daz character in Maya is just like any other character in Maya (using a HumanIK rig).  Daz or this plugin has nothing to do with it.  If you have the patience to learn to setup a character in a professional way, you will get professional results, regardless of the source of the character.  DaztoMaya puts your Daz character in a postion to be used just like any other character rig (which is a very good thing).  I assure you, there is no problem with the workflow (other than the problems that are common with any other workflow in Maya).  You will then be in Maya and free to do what you can dare to do.  The plugin will save you much of the modeling, texturing, skinning and rigging headaches that creating a character from scratch entails.  You are ready to animate.  The only thing I find necessary is to create a face rig, which is what I am doing now.

drzap

As you can see, if properly set up, you can have full articulation of the face.  Here I am setting up a GUI interface for connection to bones and blend shapes, basically duplicating what is available in Daz with its morph sliders and Posemaster (or whatever it's called).   It is meticulous work, which is why I lament that DAZ doesn't have acceptable animation capabilities.  Such a waste.

Fixme12

Any news if there wille be a DAZtoModo version ????

Fixme12

drzap said:

Where can i find that tutorial?

 

https://vimeo.com/227139373

thx

drzap

Fixme12 said:

Any news if there wille be a DAZtoModo version ????

Probably never.  There is already a "DAZtoModo":   File --> export -->fbx.    What more do you need?

Auroratrek

drzap said:

As you can see, if properly set up, you can have full articulation of the face.  Here I am setting up a GUI interface for connection to bones and blend shapes, basically duplicating what is available in Daz with its morph sliders and Posemaster (or whatever it's called).   It is meticulous work, which is why I lament that DAZ doesn't have acceptable animation capabilities.  Such a waste.

From the Daz to Maya intro video, it seemed to suggest that it transferred the face morph sliders. Is that not true?

wolf359

I use Daz figures, but animate them in Poser
 (whose own figures suck). But even the Poser
 animation tools--while better than Daz--are still crap
compared to the pro tools,

Hi Tim a simple cost/benefit analysis shows tells a different story IMHO
the full poser pro suite is $349
You, like myself, already know its limitations
http://my.smithmicro.com/poser-pro-11.html
 

Vanilla Daz studio 4.10.x
is  fairly useless for Character animation
so these three plugins are a must.
https://www.daz3d.com/gofigure

GraphMate-$20
aniMate 2nonlinear system-$60
and keyMate (dope sheet)-$20
and lets add lipsync for 64 bit- $50

So for  $150 USD investment and nothing else
You get a MODERN spline graph editor with autoclamping
(no spline graph overshoot like in poser)
and the ability to select and view the graphs of multiple parameters at once.
a dope sheet with actual spaces between the keyframes for easy marquee selection
and of course native use of the high quality genesis figures 
1,2,3,8 for your animation projects
and a  hybrid cloth engine that works on most existing conformers
with FBX & MDD export to other pro packages for rendering

as I did here to maxon C4D:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2TYEp536iB8aVBBdHJWRE9jODg/view

 

 

"so this 
Maya plugin has me really intrigued. I am only cautiously 
optimistic, however, since my wife can tell you that my constant
animation lament is that any solution I investigate to employ the
Daz characters in a better workflow than I have now always falls flat in usually a single but crucial way, so, while I appreciate the discussion of this Maya plugin, the proof is in the pudding--I'd like to see some actual character animation in Maya--walking, 
sitting, talking--using this plugin to get the Daz characters there.

As Drzap Stated, once you get the humanIK rig into Maya it falls upon you
to learn animate the Characters in Maya like any other Maya rig.

Now if you need to see what kinds of  Character animation can be 
done with Maya....have a look friend.

drzap

Auroratrek said:

drzap said:

As you can see, if properly set up, you can have full articulation of the face.  Here I am setting up a GUI interface for connection to bones and blend shapes, basically duplicating what is available in Daz with its morph sliders and Posemaster (or whatever it's called).   It is meticulous work, which is why I lament that DAZ doesn't have acceptable animation capabilities.  Such a waste.

From the Daz to Maya intro video, it seemed to suggest that it transferred the face morph sliders. Is that not true?

What you saw in the video is the Shape Editor.  It is a good place for organizing and editing the blend shapes, but it is not an interface for animation.  There is also a way to turn on and off blendshapes in Channelbox (another editor), but again, this is not a control an animator would use.  The only way to get decent animation controls for the face is to make them yourself.

Auroratrek

drzap said:

Auroratrek said:

drzap said:

Auroratrek said:

A Daz character brought into Maya doesn't change the mesh, just the method of animating and rendering it. Daz to Maya is just a plugin to get the character into Maya, to animate and render there, much like Interposer Pro for Cinema 4D, which I've been been using for almost a decade. If you follow the link in my signature you'll see Daz characters in Cinema 4D--not in Daz or Poser, but they're still recognizably Daz characters. I was just hoping to see some animation in Maya with Daz characters.

Oooh, you want to see animation work from Maya users using DAZ characters.  Youtube is probably the best way.   Maya animators who are not students, tend to be in the professional CGI field and as a whole, they won't admit to touching DAZ characters with a 10 foot pole.  Student animators want to impress them with their demo reels, so I think you won't see much of their work using DAZ characters either.

Yes, and yes, that's absolutely true--Daz (and Poser) is despised by "serious" animators--and it's a shame, since the Daz mesh is often as good or better than the figures used in a lot of these pro and student works. But a big part of the problem is that Daz has great characters, but their animation tools suck, so you rarely see them animated well. I use Daz figures, but animate them in Poser (whose own figures suck). But even the Poser animation tools--while better than Daz--are still crap compared to the pro tools, but I do the best I can, and can at least render in a pro application like Cinema 4D. I have always thought that if Daz played nice with a high-end program with high-end animation capabilities, their figures could finally shine, so this Maya plugin has me really intrigued. I am only cautiously optimistic, however, since my wife can tell you that my constant animation lament is that any solution I investigate to employ the Daz characters in a better workflow than I have now always falls flat in usually a single but crucial way, so, while I appreciate the discussion of this Maya plugin, the proof is in the pudding--I'd like to see some actual character animation in Maya--walking, sitting, talking--using this plugin to get the Daz characters there.

What you say is so true.  We share the same lament.  But you are asking the wrong question.  What you really want to know is if animating characters in Maya is worth it. Because a Daz character in Maya is just like any other character in Maya (using a HumanIK rig).  Daz or this plugin has nothing to do with it.  If you have the patience to learn to setup a character in a professional way, you will get professional results, regardless of the source of the character.  DaztoMaya puts your Daz character in a postion to be used just like any other character rig (which is a very good thing).  I assure you, there is no problem with the workflow (other than the problems that are common with any other workflow in Maya).  You will then be in Maya and free to do what you can dare to do.  The plugin will save you much of the modeling, texturing, skinning and rigging headaches that creating a character from scratch entails.  You are ready to animate.  The only thing I find necessary is to create a face rig, which is what I am doing now.

All true. In my case, I could probably create and rig a passable character from scratch if I really had to, but Daz has already done a better job than I could hope to do without years of training and work on my part--not to mention created a giant catalog of clothing, hair etc. representing thousands upon thousands of hours of work. The fact that I'm pretty much a one man operation means that I have to save time where I can, and the Daz characters are a great way to do it. If I had had to model and rig all my characters, I'd still be working on my first movie! My interest in Daz to Maya is to see if it would save me time to work directly in the rendering application I plan to use, rather than have to deal with the Daz to Poser to Cinema 4D workflows and the issues that causes, not to mention seeing if a high-end character animation interface is faster and less limiting as well. I'd also like access to the Genesis characters, something I really haven't been able to swing using Poser and Interposer Pro. Of course, all of this depends upon whether the Daz figure that has been imported into Maya with this plugin performs well--that is, no weird rig/morph/weights/texture issues. Assuming that it comes in cleanly, then theoretically I'd have a quality character with a robust animation interface, already living inside a high-end 3D application, rather than having a foot in three different applications and forced through a plugin that imposes its own limitations.

drzap

Auroratrek said:

drzap said:

Auroratrek said:

drzap said:

Auroratrek said:

A Daz character brought into Maya doesn't change the mesh, just the method of animating and rendering it. Daz to Maya is just a plugin to get the character into Maya, to animate and render there, much like Interposer Pro for Cinema 4D, which I've been been using for almost a decade. If you follow the link in my signature you'll see Daz characters in Cinema 4D--not in Daz or Poser, but they're still recognizably Daz characters. I was just hoping to see some animation in Maya with Daz characters.

Oooh, you want to see animation work from Maya users using DAZ characters.  Youtube is probably the best way.   Maya animators who are not students, tend to be in the professional CGI field and as a whole, they won't admit to touching DAZ characters with a 10 foot pole.  Student animators want to impress them with their demo reels, so I think you won't see much of their work using DAZ characters either.

Yes, and yes, that's absolutely true--Daz (and Poser) is despised by "serious" animators--and it's a shame, since the Daz mesh is often as good or better than the figures used in a lot of these pro and student works. But a big part of the problem is that Daz has great characters, but their animation tools suck, so you rarely see them animated well. I use Daz figures, but animate them in Poser (whose own figures suck). But even the Poser animation tools--while better than Daz--are still crap compared to the pro tools, but I do the best I can, and can at least render in a pro application like Cinema 4D. I have always thought that if Daz played nice with a high-end program with high-end animation capabilities, their figures could finally shine, so this Maya plugin has me really intrigued. I am only cautiously optimistic, however, since my wife can tell you that my constant animation lament is that any solution I investigate to employ the Daz characters in a better workflow than I have now always falls flat in usually a single but crucial way, so, while I appreciate the discussion of this Maya plugin, the proof is in the pudding--I'd like to see some actual character animation in Maya--walking, sitting, talking--using this plugin to get the Daz characters there.

What you say is so true.  We share the same lament.  But you are asking the wrong question.  What you really want to know is if animating characters in Maya is worth it. Because a Daz character in Maya is just like any other character in Maya (using a HumanIK rig).  Daz or this plugin has nothing to do with it.  If you have the patience to learn to setup a character in a professional way, you will get professional results, regardless of the source of the character.  DaztoMaya puts your Daz character in a postion to be used just like any other character rig (which is a very good thing).  I assure you, there is no problem with the workflow (other than the problems that are common with any other workflow in Maya).  You will then be in Maya and free to do what you can dare to do.  The plugin will save you much of the modeling, texturing, skinning and rigging headaches that creating a character from scratch entails.  You are ready to animate.  The only thing I find necessary is to create a face rig, which is what I am doing now.

All true. In my case, I could probably create and rig a passable character from scratch if I really had to, but Daz has already done a better job than I could hope to do without years of training and work on my part--not to mention created a giant catalog of clothing, hair etc. representing thousands upon thousands of hours of work. The fact that I'm pretty much a one man operation means that I have to save time where I can, and the Daz characters are a great way to do it. If I had had to model and rig all my characters, I'd still be working on my first movie! My interest in Daz to Maya is to see if it would save me time to work directly in the rendering application I plan to use, rather than have to deal with the Daz to Poser to Cinema 4D workflows and the issues that causes, not to mention seeing if a high-end character animation interface is faster and less limiting as well. I'd also like access to the Genesis characters, something I really haven't been able to swing using Poser and Interposer Pro. Of course, all of this depends upon whether the Daz figure that has been imported into Maya with this plugin performs well--that is, no weird rig/morph/weights/texture issues. Assuming that it comes in cleanly, then theoretically I'd have a quality character with a robust animation interface, already living inside a high-end 3D application, rather than having a foot in three different applications and forced through a plugin that imposes its own limitations.

We are in the same boat.  I am also a one man crew working on my first movie.  There are no workflow issues.  The script does exactly what it says.  Your main challenge would be learning how to use Maya.   The sole reason I suscribed to Maya is this plugin.  I was reluctant.  I was intimidated.  But it was so easy to bring a Daz figure in and begin work.  There is no easier way.

wolf359

"As you can see, if properly set up, you can have full articulation of the face. 
 Here I am setting up a GUI interface for connection to bones and blend
 shapes, basically duplicating what is available in Daz with its morph 
sliders and Posemaster (or whatever it's called).   

I have never used Maya in any capacity
what are its built in autolipsyncing options regarding using preprecorded audio??

drzap

wolf359 said:

"As you can see, if properly set up, you can have full articulation of the face. 
 Here I am setting up a GUI interface for connection to bones and blend
 shapes, basically duplicating what is available in Daz with its morph 
sliders and Posemaster (or whatever it's called).   

I have never used Maya in any capacity
what are its built in autolipsyncing options regarding using preprecorded audio??

As far as I know, there are no native autolipsyncing options in Maya.  Animators who want lipsync probably just use facial mocap.  There may be a lipsyncing plugin, but I haven't heard of one.

drzap

There is a lipsyncing pluginhttp://www.annosoft.com/

wolf359

drzap said:

wolf359 said:

what are its built in autolipsyncing options regarding using preprecorded audio??

As far as I know, there are no native autolipsyncing options in Maya.  Animators who want lipsync probably just use facial mocap.  There may be a lipsyncing plugin, but I haven't heard of one.

Well there is this plugin
http://www.di-o-matic.com/products/plugins/maya/VoiceOMatic/#captures&page=captures ;
$349 USD but hey if you can afford Maya.....

 

"Assuming that it comes in cleanly, then theoretically
 I'd have a quality character with a robust animation
 interface, already living inside a high-end 3D
 application, rather than having a foot in three different
 applications and forced through a plugin that imposes
 its own limitations."

Yes indeed  that would be ideal for animated films with Daz Figures.
It is a shame that  Maxon has ignored serious Characte animation tools in Cinema4D
in favor of broadcast graphics.

Too bad the interposer  pro developer never got his planned "InterGenesis"
plugin off the ground.
We might have had fully functional genesis figures inside C4D
but ahh well...  we work with what is available.

At any rate the very existance of this Daz to Maya plugin indicates
which of the two programs is getting third party Character animation support for their native figures
So developing a  pipeline, without poser involved, is the  recommended
course going forward IMHO. 

pdr0

 

 

wolf359 said:

It is a shame that  Maxon has ignored serious Characte animation tools in Cinema4D
in favor of broadcast graphics.

Yes, Maya or motionbuilder  is much better for character animation than C4D

 

wolf359 said:

Too bad the interposer  pro developer never got his planned "InterGenesis"
plugin off the ground.
We might have had fully functional genesis figures inside C4D
but ahh well...  we work with what is available.

 

Genesis already works in C4D as FBX . Exported morphs show up under the pose morph tag

But only "fully functional" only in terms of FBX.  But those are the same limitations of FBX which this plugin shares . (Only because DS's FBX export is limited, probably purposefully)

Genesis1/2/3/8 models based on FBX (or this plugin) are base resolution only. No HD morphs, no DS specific subD, JCM's - that's different than IPP which only worked on Gen4 and below / poser content which used full resolution. It depends on what you are using, but on some characters and creatures, the quality is significantly lower. Missing detail, and oversmoothed. Or for others, some movements and bends don't look right.  To "jailbreak" them out of DS at full quality, it has to be exported again in a "baked" format such as obj/mdd , or alembic, but you lose the rigging. All that back and forth might not be worth it for some scenarios or scenes

But animating a lower poly mesh is much better than a higher poly mesh. It's better for hard/soft body physics sims, hair , cloth,  responsivenes for animation, solves, etc...It's like the "bendy" proxy in IPP. The FBX base mesh is like a proxy (but can be sufficient in some scenes)

This plugin doesn't really do anything different than FBX. You don't save much time. You save maybe a few seconds and a few clicks - it's not that difficult to setup the HIK rig . You still have to relink other textures manually . You still have the same FBX limitations. If this plugin could overcome those limitations, I bet 10x more people would buy it. But those FBX limitations are on DS's SDK side

 

 

wolf359

" To "jailbreak" them out of DS at full quality, it has to
 be exported again in a "baked" format such as obj/mdd , 
or alembic, but you lose the rigging. All that back and 
forth might not be worth it for some scenarios or scenes"

,which is why I use .obj/MDD
it depends on the Character motion building capabilities 
of your final render application.

In the case of C4D they are effectively non existent 
except in the minds of those dedicated hand keyframers
who never import any human mocap
however  all you ever see from them is "cute" stuff.

Short  clips with Single cartoon type critters that they have lovingly key framed by hand
and little ,if any speaking parts because C4dD has no auto lipsynch options.

If one is a single ,with apsirations to create feature length animated films
,human mocap and auto lipsynch is a must IMO.

Like most, I have long ago given up on the idea of using native C4D rigs 
for complex character motions.
I create my  major  body motion in Iclone 
retarget to genesis rigs in 3DXchange 
add lipsync & facial animation in DS and export the .obj to C4D to await
MDD Data.

I even bake optitex cloth sims to send to C4D as MDD .

 

"But animating a lower poly mesh is much better than a higher poly 
It's better for hard/soft body physics sims, hair , cloth,  responsivenes 
for animation, solves, etc...It's like the "bendy" proxy in IPP. 
The FBX base mesh is like a proxy (but can be sufficient in some scenes)"

To be honest I have only used base resolution for most of the Genesis /MDD meshes
in my current film project.
 
I am not addicted to the opiate of the still framers..HD morphs.

However if I get the camera in too close and can see 
noticable  edge faceting (square finger tips etc),
I just place the MDD animated Genesis mesh under a nondestructive nurbs modifier
and get him/her nice and smooth.

I have already used the Daz decimation plugin to create super low poly
animated proxy meshes I will be  exporting from C4D to real flow for interaction with fluids
before bring the fluid sims back into C4D for rendering.

And of course for ragdoll physics I have Endorphin which exports to Daz compatible
BVH files

 

pdr0

wolf359 said:

 

If one is a single ,with apsirations to create feature length animated films
,human mocap and auto lipsynch is a must IMO.

 

I agree, and  not just for "singles" . A library of mocap motions is what all animators should be doing. You retarget the motions to different characters. Even something as simple as sitting, walking, breathing, blinking, idle motions can be a huge time saver. You can blend different takes or use additive layers to change them up and customize

But I've never seen any "auto" lipsync that 100% gets it right. You might get 40-50% of the way there and need to make manual adjustments. But 50% is way better than 0% and doing 100% manually. Even facial mocap on expensive systems needs cleaning - it's never 100% perfect

 

 

wolf359 said:

 

To be honest I have only used base resolution for most of the Genesis /MDD meshes
in my current film project.
 
I am not addicted to the opiate of the still framers..HD morphs.

However if I get the camera in too close and can see 
noticable  edge faceting (square finger tips etc),
I just place the MDD animated Genesis mesh under a nondestructive nurbs modifier
and get him/her nice and smooth.

 

We're talking about slightly different things. You're talking about "smooth", but I'm talking about sculpted geometry details. Things like rib details, muscle fibres, pores in the skin. You can smooth the blocky edges like blocky ears lobes etc... by subdividing in another program -  but that produces smoother, less detailed, not more detailed . Sculpting is also one of those tasks that you save time on when using DS characters. Yes diffuse and other textures are important but you need proper geometry too. Yes you can create your own details and displacement maps, just like you can rig your own characters from scratch - but those tasks take time.  There are significant differences on things like some HD monsters, a few HD characters (some "HD" characters have almost no difference) . When combined with a good renderer, those details appear dramatically different - not a cartoony smooth appearance. Sometimes you might want smooth, that's perfectly fine for some projects - it all depends on the "look" or the type of project you are working on

 

wolf359 said:

I have already used the Daz decimation plugin to create super low poly
animated proxy meshes I will be  exporting from C4D to real flow for interaction with fluids
before bring the fluid sims back into C4D for rendering

Super low poly is definitely good for some types of sims . But for others you might need a closer poly approximation -  Especially for things like accurate cloth dynamics where parts sit or slide very close to the skin. Or for realflow where you have water droplets moving close to the skin like sweat droplets. If your final HD mesh has sculpted details, it might not look right even with the <20K FBX version

 

 

 

 

wolf359

" by subdividing in another program -  
but that produces smoother, less detailed,
 not more detailed . Sculpting is also one 
of those tasks that you save time on when 
using DS characters. Yes diffuse and other 
textures are important but you need proper 
geometry too. Yes you can create your own
 details and displacement maps, just like you 
can rig your own characters from scratch -
 but those tasks take time.  
There are significant differences on things
 like some HD monsters, a few HD characters 
(some "HD" characters have almost no difference) 
. When combined with a good renderer, those details 
dramatically different - not a cartoony smooth 
Sometimes you might want smooth, that's 
fine for some projects - it all depends on the
 "look" or the type of project you are working on"

Agree completely it depends entirely upon what kinds of animation you do.
I do Sci fi my characters are fully dressed in a suit of some sort.

I am interested in visual story telling through animation of 
objects ,cameras ,environments and people with relevant dialog.
 
Not thru lingering camera shots 
of  20 something year old womens bare elbows & knees
that have nothing to do with the narratives I am putting forth.

The "HD morph" obsession,, some seem to  have, does not tell stories  IMO
except for still framers who only have that one frozen frame that will be 
examined  for every detail over & over.

And you are correct many 
"HD characters" are nothing more than a marketing gimmick
to make people believe some mystical added value

That said using MDD/obj does at least give me options for higher subD baked in 
the MDD/obj export if not true Daz HD sculpted Detail.

in fact I have some shots coming up 
That will feature a 50 something year old Italian Female physician
that will definately benefit from Higher subD baked into the MDD/obj.

wolf359

 Especially for things like accurate cloth dynamics where parts sit or slide 
very close to the skin.

All of my cloth sims are done at figure SubD level 2 in Daz studio and baked out to MDD from there
however I send the baked cloth separately from the figure wearing it so I
can use a cloth nurbs modifier to add some thickness as seen here.

 
Or for realflow where you have water droplets moving close to the skin like sweat droplets.
If your final HD mesh has sculpted details, it might not look right even with the <20K FBX version

Realflow has an "emit from vertexes" option so we can make even to most decimated mesh 
sweat or bleed liquid from its surface.
and by the time you have added foam and motion blur  no one will notice
how accurately the flowing water is rushing past the hi res person in the flooding hallway 
trust me.

pdr0

wolf359 said:

 Especially for things like accurate cloth dynamics where parts sit or slide 
very close to the skin.

 

Or for realflow where you have water droplets moving close to the skin like sweat droplets.
If your final HD mesh has sculpted details, it might not look right even with the <20K FBX version

Realflow has an "emit from vertexes" option so we can make even to most decimated mesh 
sweat or bleed liquid from its surface.
and by the time you have added foam and motion blur  no one will notice
how accurately the flowing water is rushing past the hi res person in the flooding hallway 
trust me.

 

Yeah you probably don't need it for the flood sim :).

But the vertices are different - that's the whole point. That statement was referring to proximity situations where the proxy mesh isn't a close enough approximation to the full quality version - and since the geometry and vertices are different enough, the simulation has errors when you use the full quality version . This problem applies to other proxy model sims too, not just Daz models.

In realflow, the prototypical example is water/sweat droplets running down sculpted bodies like abs or muscles. Anything that you need high accuracy or close proximity for calculations might require the full mesh. Even the DS FBX base version sometimes deviates too much from the HD version in those sims - so that the droplets "floats" above some parts if the skin instead of trickling up and down the crevices , contours and fine surfaces of the body like sculpted abs or muscles. You lose the illusion of realism if the sim is done on the FBX version because it's a different mesh. Of course you don't have to worry about those things if the base mesh is the one being used for final render, or if the "high quality" version doesn't really differ that much

For cloth, another example is tight fitting clothes. For example a bodybuilder wearing a tight tank top. The abs might have highly defined geometry in higher quality versions, perhaps with details like veins, muscle striations. But the base mesh might not. The cloth might not look right in those situations if you do the sim on the low quality version. The protruding veins might poke through the cloth when you replace the lower quality proxy with high quality model for final render.

I'm sure you get the idea....Anyways we're getting a bit off topic here...

 

drzap

After experimenting with my first facial rig, I have come to the conclusion that If you are importing DAZ figures into Maya, don't waste your time on Genesis 2 or below unless you just want to control the face with blendshapes.  A Blendshape rig is nice, but there is something special about the extra level of control you can have with a hybrid blendshape / joint rig.  If you just plan to lipsync, you don't need this, but if you plan to do face mocap, why not prepare for it with the most options.  G3 and G8 will give you those options.  I chose two G2 characters and now I regret it.  From now on, all Genesis 3.  

wolf359

drzap said:

After experimenting with my first facial rig, I have come to the conclusion that If you are importing DAZ figures into Maya, don't waste your time on Genesis 2 or below unless you just want to control the face with blendshapes.  A Blendshape rig is nice, but there is something special about the extra level of control you can have with a hybrid blendshape / joint rig.  If you just plan to lipsync, you don't need this, but if you plan to do face mocap, why not prepare for it with the most options.  G3 and G8 will give you those options.  I chose two G2 characters and now I regret it.  From now on, all Genesis 3.  

Indeed according to Daz the G3/G8 face rig was
 implemented to be used in other programs so for those 
creating all of thier Character body & face motion in Maya or motionbuilder.
G3/G8 is the best choice.

Fixme12

drzap said:

Fixme12 said:

Any news if there wille be a DAZtoModo version ????

Probably never.  There is already a "DAZtoModo":   File --> export -->fbx.    What more do you need?

ah the rigged animatable figure ready, but guess we first need to wait what modo 12 will bring up to animation goodies.

Fixme12

any tutorial about how to fix the face in maya (fix/create the face rig)?

andykarta

Might I suggest the Autodesk student suite that includes MotionBuilder.  Its their animation software and works with Maya.  The unrendered Daz model looks better than some of the renders I've seen.  It doesn't cause the problems that Maya sometimes does.  Rigging is a breeze and then move it to Maya in a single click.  You can't beat the 20 dollar price of the plugin though.  I haven't needed it but software can be fickle.

drzap

Fixme12 said:

any tutorial about how to fix the face in maya (fix/create the face rig)?

There are plenty on youtube.  Take your pick.