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Have you considered trying the challenge I posted in the other thread, where you try to duplicate a real life photo? You might want to give it a try.....it's very simple, and who knows, you might learn something about real life shadows and lights and colors. For anyone who is really interested in "realistic" renders, it's a good starting point. Even if you don't like the guy who suggested it, it still might be useful.
Have you considered trying the challenge I posted in the other thread, where you try to duplicate a real life photo? You might want to give it a try.....it's very simple, and who knows, you might learn something about real life shadows and lights and colors. For anyone who is really interested in "realistic" renders, it's a good starting point. Even if you don't like the guy who suggested it, it still might be useful.
Yes. I have been considering it. Being a bit of a mason, I was wondering why those guys didn't fix those casting lines - but it was likely a budgeting factor to keep the bollard costs low. The times want the cheaper option more and more, it seems. Still makes for a really great photo to try and replicate in 3d. Great idea, with a great image for that idea. I may pick it up - depending on how time permits. Even though I'm not after realism - it looks like an excellent way to learn more about Carrara.
I'll post here my results, when I do get the chance to try it.
I hope you're not missing the point....ultimately it's not about "realism", and it's not about learning software, it's about understanding light and color and shadow and texture. IF you are going to generate 3D images, and you want them to be accepted by others, you should understand what your viewers want and expect in an image if they are going to enjoy it. And what they want and expect is that you respect their internal needs for light and shadow and color and texture to behave the way it does in real life.
Even if you just have a simple, stupid, dull bollard outside in the sunlight, your viewers still expect that the light will behave like light does in the real world. And they want the shadows to behave they way they expect. And on and on. Otherwise they tend to dismiss it, either consciously or subconsciously, as "wrong". And, BTW, the same principles that apply with a simple, dull bollard apply with a complex outdoor scene.
So while you may not be shooting for 100% photographic accuracy, you should be shooting for general compliance with what your viewers want and expect. And to do that you need to UNDERSTAND what they want and expect. And by duplicating a stupid, simple dull bollard in the sunlight, you are learning about the colors and reflections and lights and textures and shadows of real world stuff, and you can apply those basic concepts in any future renders to make them have more impact.
On the other hand, if none of that is important to you, by finding a lighting arrangement that duplicates the bollard photo, you can then call yourself an outdoor lighting expert and sell your lighting set in the store !!! :)
Man,
are you the guy that wrote my animation course? lol
I was going to say the name, but... that, what you've said, is the truth of the matter. That goes for masonry and landscaping as well. When looking over what you've just done - never ask yourself what looks right and good. If you know what you're doing, there should be all kinds of right and good everywhere! No. Ask what's wrong with what you see - focus on finding something wrong. It's amazing how wonderful your jobs turn out when implementing these strategies.
I used to try and set up my scenes to be lit as they would in nature - until I realized that these things can really slow my progress for animations. So I use a different method. I light the scene to make the scene look the way I want it to look as my stage. I add enhanced lighting to my focus objects to help them to stand out. Fairly soon you may see the results of what I've been achieving. Posting stills of the video frames is not at all the same as seeing the clip in action - cut in with those that fit with it. I've been working towards this since 2010, when I bought part of Carrara and some goods - DAZ gave me most everything else upon the time of purchase. It was amazing. Such a content boost was just the ticket I needed to get started.
Before I knew the vastness of Carrara, I was using Stonemason's Millennium Environment and most of the addons for it to create my scenes. It works fine - and I'd even offer it as a method to try - if real world elements are dragging you down. But once I got to tearing apart scenes I've purchased made by mmoir and by Howie Farkes, my world changed. The scenes, as they come, would likely make my renders take too long for me to accomplish my goal on my own - which is really what I want. So I've read what both have to say, picked up a bunch of tips and tricks from you gurus, here on the forum. I did a quite a bit of research trying to buy a product for resembling stars - nothing that I've found at the time would work for what I wanted- and hence came Starry Sky for Carrara - which I use a lot. EnvironKits series comes from listening to what some of my Carrara friends are looking for and asking for. The first one, Woodlands, aims at giving great and fast scenes without a lot of difficulty, and without needing to have a super computer to get decent results. It began with the aim of creating fast rendering nature backgrounds. It just got to become amazingly fun to build scenes with.
But once an animator finds a good solution towards getting good results for animated renders that can be finished today... he or she should save that and work with it.
Using words, near identical to what you say above, I've hunted down and saved many ways to facilitate my staging needs for my animations. It just keeps growing from there. Some of these folks on here have entirely different needs. Look at Luxor! I bought it, and I'm glad that I did. That guy busted his bum getting that plugin for us - answering all of our wants... but it's a solution for really slow renders. I have an entirely different goal in mind. I still buy all of Howie's Kits. But I take them apart and use them in scenes differently than what he had in mind. Doesn't matter because what I want comes in the kit - and I'll never delete the killer scenes that he preset for us. Reading his product material got me really serious into really focusing heavily on shaders vs lighting vs render settings. I can't name another artist here whom normally renders at Object Accuracy = 2, Shadow = 4. I've learned to work that way and work with it. At that setting, 4,080 x 4,080 maps are not necessary. So I reduce them. I need to look at shading differently and lighting.... I know it looks good in my animations - I see the proof - at least it's what I really like - and I know a pile of people throughout this state and the next state south, they really like my different sort of look - well... it's not that different - just... different. Okay... a few loose screws upstairs.
Anyways, I really hope that you'll like what I'm doing, and can hardly wait to show you. Personally, I think you'll enjoy it - but only you can decide that. Thanks for the advice and the tips and such. Believability truly is a key element - even in the fantastic.
Dartanbeck,
I really like that underwater image. Hopefully this is a preview of a new Environ Kit from you!
Here are the "Santa" images we discussed recently.
The "Oasis" still was used as a menu background and the "Barbecue" still was used for a dining credits background for a Christmas in Hawaii Blu-Ray.
Okay, Mr. Beck...well...in between the seemingly endless self- and content-promotion, I'm sure there's a point in there somewhere... :)
In any case, for anyone who is interested in the point I've been making, I'll use Mr. Beck's scuba diver image as an example.
If you do a search online for anything like "scuba photos", you'll probably see some gorgeous underwater photographs. And generally, they have at least one thing in common: the water is a deep and gorgeous BLUE. Why is that? Well, mostly it's a scientific phenomenon. Sunlight, which contains all the colors, gets heavily filtered by seawater. Even at very shallow depths, all the colors except blue get filtered out. And the deeper you are, the bluer the water appears. That's because there's tiny floating junk in the water that reflects the blue water into your eyes. I know, because I've been a scuba diver for many many years.
And most people subconsciously realize that....and they associate underwater with deep blue. So most artists know that if you want people to believe the shot is underwater, you make the water a deep blue. Now that doesn't mean it's RIGHT or the only way, it just means that if you are doing underwater renders, you should at least be AWARE of the fact, and then decide how much of that you want to apply.
And scuba divers are also very aware that the INTENSITY of sunlight gets filtered very very quickly, even at very shallow depths. So if you want to take a photograph underwater at depths of more than 5 or 10 feet, you're gonna have to use a flash on your camera. Which, if you've ever used a flash, means that stuff that is within 5 or 10 feet of your flash will be illuminated, and will show all of their colors, and stuff further away won't.
Now, I'm not saying that anyone's images are bad. Only that there are things to consider when generating images, because those things tend to make viewers FEEL what you're trying to make them FEEL. And if those things don't exist, you might be losing your viewers.
Oh, and I forgot to mention....
Since the light from your camera flash underwater gets its intensity filtered just like the sunlight does, you generally need to get very close to your subjects in order to illuminate them. Which means if you're doing a full shot of a diver, you'll have to use a VERY wide angle lens to get the entire subject in the picture, as well as be close enough to illuminate the subject.
Which is why viewers tend to expect underwater shots to be taken using a wide angle lens, not the standard Carrara 50mm lens.
All of these little details go together to SELL the concept to viewers.
...and yes. Another kit that uses the Realistic Sky atmosphere to filter light through the tiny organisms and particles that make water look blue. For animation shots and even more water look, it uses a replicated grid of an Ocean primitive, waves moving with the wind, which reflects off some of the light from the sun. I love what you can do with Carrara. I'm still working on the bubbles kit - which uses particle emitters and directional forces to launch the air bubbles up. Then you can just place them where you like.
*Warning - may not be suitable for the central scrutinizer!
I've never understood why so many people here associate learning about stuff with "not fun", and not having to learn about stuff with "fun". Seems like it's just as easy to do things right, and with greater impact, than to do things without without knowing the basics....but anyway.....
And I'm sorry you see me as a mean, nasty scrutinizer who is ruining all your fun. Some people enjoy learning, but I guess that doesn't apply here. A simple "thank you for the advice" would suffice. Y'know, being nice, like you guys expect of everyone else.
Dartanbeck wrote
Looking forward to this one too Dartanbeck. Thanks so much for boundless interest and countless hours spent helping inject more life into Carrara.
So, kakman, do you want to discuss 3D art and the issues, or just attack me and give excuses? Because, as always, I'm glad to discuss issues. And if anything I've said is wrong I'd be glad to discuss it.
But if your only concern is complaining that I don't meet your minimum requirements, and therefore you refuse to accept the information I provide, then I'll step aside and let you complain.
But I do want to congratulate you for developing a novel approach to learning. I wish I had known you in college....
"Gee, professor, I'm sorry but I refuse to accept any information you're giving me because you aren't saying it nice enough. And I need you to provide me with a well done video (using well known actors, by the way...) to explain all of it. And I also require that you call me "Your Highness", and provide me with a caramel latte when I enter your classroom. Oh, and a nice pillow, because the seats in your classroom are a bit uncomfortable. Otherwise, I'm just not interested in learning any of this"
Some people want to learn, other people make excuses.
Tried an underwater scene using your ideas Joe..
I have a few:
The first I wanted to go after a video game mood; something like Fatal Frame or SH- didn't get there, but it still gave me that old school "I Don't Want To Go In" kinda feel.
On the second I went after a muted color scheme and softer effects to contradict the hard edge models and subject matter on this one- trying to work with the tired and almost desperate look I tried to get into M4's face behind the mask.
This one...well. The lighting was all knockered up on purpose; night lighting, some bleed over from exterior/interior lights, reflective lights from the water, bounce lights from the walls...it went everywhere, but I used it anyway. :D Lesson learned.
The last- my favorite portrait. A lot of time went into this, set up/shaders/lighting/test rendering and tweaking.
DarwinsMishap wrote
beautiful work, love the lighting, something strange and mysterious is evoked,
Stezza wrote:
I have to admit I stopped reading his posts a while ago.
beautiful work, love the lighting, something strange and mysterious is evoked,
I totally agree, I think all the images are excellent and the last one (the portrait) looks very "realistic"
I totally agree, I think all the images are excellent and the last one (the portrait) looks very "realistic"
Thank you very much!
beautiful work, love the lighting, something strange and mysterious is evoked,
Thank you very much- I was hoping to get across a visual "Story" in this one. Whatever that story may have been. lol
Thanks for the renders! Beautiful! Both of you!
Edit: Forgive me - all three of you! :)
I know I've already mentioned that I like your renders Kakman, but now I'm thanking you for them! lol
darn car - wish I could fly again :roll:
I like that one a lot. Except for the snow- I'm not ready to deal with the idea of snow again. ;-)
Here's a still shot from the never-ending animation I've been working on. The astronaut has just been drilled in the back and is floating away, dead.
never-ending - should last some time then :-)
hope you don't do all of them in !
Here's an extremely- and I emphasize- extremely rough cut of the video that I have so far. Not all the clips are rendered yet and not all the clips are trimmed to their final size. There's also some proof of concept renders that I will most likely re-render. Still, I like what I have so far, and see promise in continuing with it.
http://youtu.be/iS-sNje4k0o
pretty good - got it right away
skull
bigh and evilproducer,
Fantastic work, both of you! Yes!
ep,
you are SO on the right track here! I can hardly wait to see more - and, being a fan of what you've done with this scene from the start - I can tell that it's really going to be spectacular!
bigh,
I really like your use of the snow scene content within Carrara - along with the excellent use of main focus characters (yes, I consider that awesome car a character in this sense!) - and, if I'm not mistaken, that's one of those Sky Box scenes from flipmode, is it not?
I still don't have that winter one - but between you and the Kakman, I'm totally sold!
Nice job.
Kakman and I have differing methods on how we illuminate the sky boxes. I'd love to hear your technique if you're interested in sharing - and if thhat's indeed what that is ;)
Cheers you guys!
I love coming in here and seeing renders!
Heh, heh, I'd recognise that car anywhere now. That's the bighmobile!
really beautiful job Evil, especially on the reflactions on the face shield
reminds me a lot of a 2001, A Space Oddyssey
thanks guys - keep having fun ;-)