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dForce Master - HairForce MEGA Thread [Commerical]

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  • ColinFrenchColinFrench Posts: 648

    Looks great! One suggestion and one question:

    Suggestion: on the promo pics, listing the specific hair you used would forestall the inevitable "what hair is this" questions that will pop up. smiley Some of them are easily identifiable, like the Voss hair, but others may not be as well known.

    Question: to get good results with dForce on clothes you have to be careful to avoid intersecting surfaces, do you find the same applies to hair? E.g. a few strands intersecting with a shoulder or arm? Or pieces of the hair colliding with itself? Would you have to use a hair's built-in morphs to ensure there's no interference in the initial pose before applying your presets and running the simulation?

    Keep up the good work!

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    ColinFrench said:

    Looks great! One suggestion and one question:

    Suggestion: on the promo pics, listing the specific hair you used would forestall the inevitable "what hair is this" questions that will pop up. smiley Some of them are easily identifiable, like the Voss hair, but others may not be as well known.

    Thank you! And that's actually a good suggestion! I think I'm going to put up a list of hair I used when it comes out laugh from my memory it is 3 or 4 Gen8 and 1 Gen3 and 1 Gen2

    Question: to get good results with dForce on clothes you have to be careful to avoid intersecting surfaces, do you find the same applies to hair? E.g. a few strands intersecting with a shoulder or arm? Or pieces of the hair colliding with itself? Would you have to use a hair's built-in morphs to ensure there's no interference in the initial pose before applying your presets and running the simulation?

    Keep up the good work!

    Hmm, good question, I would say yes, but it is not as strict as cloth. dForce clothes, to my knowledge, is recommended to be more of a one-piece-mesh so any poke through and disconnection might easily ruin the whole thing. Most of the hair in DAZ has strands that act by themselves(Assuming they are properly connected to scalp/head), and one pokethrough would mean one strand not behaving properly (a lot less likely to explode as well I believe) which is rather tiny compare to failing a whole piece of cloth.

    It is still recommended to move your hair first before simulation tho, because in the end it is still an adaptation towards an engine designed for Clothes (which behaves very differently) and I guess we all want the hair to be kinda positioned nicely so it can fall, right? laugh

     

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    Toonces said:

    Here's a free one. It may be too short for dForce though.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/166286/lola-s-son-hair-for-free

    I agree it's fairly rare to find a fibermesh hair, so not worth spending much time on testing.

    I did some more test on fibermesh hair with links from Agent Unawares, and I have to conclude that using dForce on Fibermesh Hair is simply too expensive. It took me almost an hour of singe frame simulation to reach 50% on a GTX1080 ti, so I don't think it would be worth it unfortunately... frown

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019

    A small suggestion: Considering that a lot of people still use M4/V4, and also G1, it would probably help your sales if you added support for those characters/skulls as well.

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    BeeMKay said:

    A small suggestion: Considering that a lot of people still use M4/V4, and also G1, it would probably help your sales if you added support for those characters/skulls as well.

    Yup, I shall run some test on these ones as well!

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401

    Greetings,

    I noticed some sharper angles on some strands of the Rochelle ponytail; not your fault, a lot of hair has that problem.  I typically resolve it by adding subdivision; does that work with hair that's been simmed by this method?

    --  Morgan

     

  • aaráribel caađoaaráribel caađo Posts: 690

    My computer probably can't run this, but, wow, this would be wonderful. I avoid long hair entirely because it requires so much work to get it posed, and even then, there are serious limitations. 

  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 4,078

    Here's a recent fibermesh. A very nice one. https://www.daz3d.com/sonia-hair-for-genesis-3-and-genesis-8-female-s

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    I noticed some sharper angles on some strands of the Rochelle ponytail; not your fault, a lot of hair has that problem.  I typically resolve it by adding subdivision; does that work with hair that's been simmed by this method?

    --  Morgan

    In theory that could work, it should be able to provide a smoother bend of strands, never tried that myself tho I will let you know if I get a chance to have a go at it :)

    Or it is possible to just be the result of strands twisting during the simulation :)

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    edited November 2017
    aaráribel caađo said:

    My computer probably can't run this, but, wow, this would be wonderful. I avoid long hair entirely because it requires so much work to get it posed, and even then, there are serious limitations.

    In theory if you can run Iray even with CPU, I think you will be able to run simulations (not on fiber mesh hair tho!) fairly alright, I think there were thread asking if they can run cloth simulation on old machines you can totally check that out wink If you can run cloth simulation, then you can definitely run hair simulation!

    Post edited by EcVh0 on
  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    fastbike1 said:

    Here's a recent fibermesh. A very nice one. https://www.daz3d.com/sonia-hair-for-genesis-3-and-genesis-8-female-s

    Thank you :)

  • Tanis VoltaTanis Volta Posts: 550

    It's very promising, and is one of my most awaited features, thanks for this big step and innovation EcVh0!  

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    EquisVoid said:

    It's very promising, and is one of my most awaited features, thanks for this big step and innovation EcVh0!  

    Thank you very much for the support! Like you Hair Simulation was always my dream in daz, now with dForce engine we can actually make it possible! laugh

  • sandmanmaxsandmanmax Posts: 992

    This looks fantastic! I'm in!! How do you think it would it work with add-on ponytail sets?  Like https://www.daz3d.com/addition-hairstyles (Neftis Additions) or https://www.daz3d.com/topmodel-updo-hair-and-oot-hairblending-2-0-for-genesis-3-female-s (OOT Top Model Up-Do Hair)? I believe the pony tails are all separate props.

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    edited November 2017
    sandman_max said:

    This looks fantastic! I'm in!! How do you think it would it work with add-on ponytail sets?  Like https://www.daz3d.com/addition-hairstyles (Neftis Additions) or https://www.daz3d.com/topmodel-updo-hair-and-oot-hairblending-2-0-for-genesis-3-female-s (OOT Top Model Up-Do Hair)? I believe the pony tails are all separate props.

    Wow! I did not know having a separate ponytail prop is a thing! 

    In theory, it could be made to work by some heavy weight painting near the joint between the ponytail prop and the hair base, my main concern would be it falling off because it is disconnected with the main hair structure... but we will only see in test wink

    I will have a look to see if I have the OOT's hair when I get back to my computer!

    Post edited by EcVh0 on
  • galattgalatt Posts: 225
    Budget allocation has been made. We await its arrival.
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 41,245
    edited November 2017
    EcVh0 said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...thanks.

    There you go! Been fiddling with it for while. the tail does make it a bit harder to simulate, I had to paint off some areas and I managed to get something out of that laugh

    I made the tail length up to maximum and pull it up above the legs and hit simulate, and here it is! (I did expect a bit more hair to be left on the kneel probably didn't position the hair well enough. oops)

     

    (edit: Added a before image so you can see how it is done wink)

    ...thanks.  Yeah, the tail is tough to work with even with just the supplied morphs, I created one pic of my namesake character doing a gymnastic move and when I tired to get the hair to flow properly, the tail actually expanded in length and began to get "kinks" in it. This seems to be an ongoing issue with some of the longer hair content especially you do an extreme front, back, or side to side move.  I feel it needs additional bones in the tail (like April's Vayne Braid and teh old Mooch Tail have) to allow for smoother bending (it only has ones at the tail base, middle and end) but not really sure how to do that with an existing product.

    As I have bad arthritis and a rather unsteady hand, any digital painting in a 2D programme is out.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    CypherFOX said:

    Greetings,

    I noticed some sharper angles on some strands of the Rochelle ponytail; not your fault, a lot of hair has that problem.  I typically resolve it by adding subdivision; does that work with hair that's been simmed by this method?

    --  Morgan

    I had a look again, it sadly doesn't not have any subdivision options for Rochelle ponytail... is it possible to add additional subdivision to the hair?

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    galatt said:
    Budget allocation has been made. We await its arrival.

    Thank you! Working hard on it :)

  • TooncesToonces Posts: 919
    EcVh0 said:
    CypherFOX said:
    I had a look again, it sadly doesn't not have any subdivision options for Rochelle ponytail... is it possible to add additional subdivision to the hair?

    Good question. I assume you mean 'real' divisions and not just Convert to SubD (though the latter is certainly worth trying). There are third party apps that can add real divisions (like VWD, but it's broken-ish in 4.10).

    Maybe Daz can too if you export a subD object and import it back?

    Not sure.

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    kyoto kid said:
    EcVh0 said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...thanks.

    There you go! Been fiddling with it for while. the tail does make it a bit harder to simulate, I had to paint off some areas and I managed to get something out of that laugh

    I made the tail length up to maximum and pull it up above the legs and hit simulate, and here it is! (I did expect a bit more hair to be left on the kneel probably didn't position the hair well enough. oops)

     

    (edit: Added a before image so you can see how it is done wink)

    ...thanks.  Yeah, the tail is tough to work with even with just the supplied morphs, I created one pic of my namesake character doing a gymnastic move and when I tired to get the hair to flow properly, the tail actually expanded in length and began to get "kinks" in it. This seems to be an ongoing issue with some of the longer hair content especially you do an extreme front, back, or side to side move.  I feel it needs additional bones in the tail (like April's Vayne Braid and teh old Mooch Tail have) to allow for smoother bending (it only has ones at the tail base, middle and end) but not really sure how to do that with an existing product.

    As I have bad arthritis and a rather unsteady hand, any digital painting in a 2D programme is out.

    Yeah, hair stretching is a problem when you use dforce engine, currently you could try setting the stretch stiffness up but too high up would make the hair instantly explode. Extra bones are definitely a good thing to have, By having plenty of extra bones the OOT hair does make it easier to control (not sure if it would make it easier to bend however), but it doesn't seem to make it easier to do extreme motions. Now I'm just happy for a hair to not fall apart under extreme motions, to be honest. lol

    And my weight map painting skill is... just terrible... terrible

     

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    Toonces said:
    EcVh0 said:
    CypherFOX said:
    I had a look again, it sadly doesn't not have any subdivision options for Rochelle ponytail... is it possible to add additional subdivision to the hair?

    Good question. I assume you mean 'real' divisions and not just Convert to SubD (though the latter is certainly worth trying). There are third party apps that can add real divisions (like VWD, but it's broken-ish in 4.10).

    Maybe Daz can too if you export a subD object and import it back?

    Not sure.

    Yeah I was thinking about adding more polygons to the hair, I will go try the convert method maybe it will do something to it :)

     

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535

    Good news everyone! I FINALLY made a break through in making hair simulation work in wind nodes, 99% of time when you put hair in, it flies away and now I think somehow I have made it work! laugh

    Doing more testing and adding it into the set tomorrow!

    Here is some "clear sky, light wind" in action wink

    dForce Hair Simulation Preset - Wind Node Test 01.png
    1000 x 1300 - 1M
  • wizwiz Posts: 1,100

    Neat idea, but that name... dForce Master - Hair isn't catchy enough. How about...

    hairForce!

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    wiz said:

    Neat idea, but that name... dForce Master - Hair isn't catchy enough. How about...

    hairForce!

    May the hairForce be with u!

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 5,997
    wiz said:

    Neat idea, but that name... dForce Master - Hair isn't catchy enough. How about...

    hairForce!

    And the first version woudl be hairforce one? cheeky

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    SimonJM said:
    wiz said:

    Neat idea, but that name... dForce Master - Hair isn't catchy enough. How about...

    hairForce!

    And the first version woudl be hairforce one? cheeky

    I suggest that that we move hairforce awakens to the prologue wink

  • BeeMKayBeeMKay Posts: 7,019
    edited November 2017

    Or how about HAIRdForce? wink

    You could then even sell the occasional fly-away-hair as a feature!

    Post edited by BeeMKay on
  • jaxprogjaxprog Posts: 312

    I'll be an early adopter, if Daz gives you the okay to sell your product :)

    I think what you have here is great.

  • EcVh0EcVh0 Posts: 535
    BeeMKay said:

    Or how about HAIRdForce? wink

    You could then even sell the occasional fly-away-hair as a feature!

    With HAIRdForce, you can remove any hair in an instant! Say no more to messy hair, curly hair, and hair in general!

    Sounds like an amazing product laugh

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