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WIP thread New Users Contest - May 2013

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  • Llan the WandererLlan the Wanderer Posts: 11
    edited December 1969

    BWSman said:

    That's correct. While deep shadow maps are quicker to render; raytracing produces a more realistic look.

    I have tried, but the problem was still the same.

    I will check again and see what happen.

    Thanks.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited May 2013

    Try turning off the light tied to the fireball and see if that's what is causing the light on the arm.

    Edit: probably not or it would be showing on the character more.

    Ok, what I am guessing is that the light is not aligned with the actual flame <- going with this as most likely cause.</p>

    [Edit: tested this and it shouldn't effect it] and while you are at it, check if there is a minimum setting on the light you are using and what that is.
    ..

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,340
    edited December 1969

    Select the lantern, go to the Parameters pane, and make sure Cast Shadows is on...

    Your latest render does look better though.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    Yep, that would do it.. but it's generally on by default.

  • ExperimenterExperimenter Posts: 162
    edited December 1969

    What would you say about the Picture? Is anything missing, for example a Person which hold the flashlight? Or is the mood version enough?
    Thank you for your help.

    Hidden_in_the_Dark.jpg
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  • Llan the WandererLlan the Wanderer Posts: 11
    edited December 1969

    @Experimenter
    I'm only a beginner, but I find your pics (this one and the one you posted for the May contest) very nices.
    You play very well (for me) with light and shadow, and I'm a bit jealous about your ability for rendering the whole scene! :)

  • Llan the WandererLlan the Wanderer Posts: 11
    edited May 2013

    Hi guys,

    Thank you to all who have helped me.

    I have checked everything and tried manythings without result.
    Last, I have deleted the lantern and created it again.
    I have modified the flame of the candle in the lantern.
    I have selected the ray tracer for shadows for all lights (moon, fire and lantern).
    I have slightly changed the orientation of the moonlight and its intensity.
    I have removed the wild vines from the scene.

    Attached is the result and it has been posted on the May contest thread too.

    You have make me sweat to improve! :P

    But again, many thanks!

    Light_my_fire.jpg
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    Post edited by Llan the Wanderer on
  • TotteTotte Posts: 13,977
    edited December 1969

    You are all making great progress with your renders. (I've been cur from internet for a while, been chewing nail and pens)

    @bluemoon: Looking good, in the first, all i miss is something to draw the eyes to the face, a little extra soft lights on the face, but the camera angle and framing is spot on. I agree with Scott, the first one is better, you clip the wings in the second, add some space so the wings fit.

    @peter.schelfhout: Nice image. I would lower the specularity on some clothes or have two lights, one with diffuse and one with specular and a little lower to avoid to smooth specula spots on clothes, and upp the reflection on the car so it's more reflecting light, but that's my opinion. Some materials looks a little plastic when lit.

    @carola.ottosson: Coming along nicely, the stars on walls could have some softer shadows, and the girl with the dog would probably benefit from something as Scott said covers a little of the millennium environment. Have you tried to change camera angle to show her face more and making the background a little darker overall?

    @Llan the Wanderer: Nice renders, and I see progress. Sometimes light leaks are hard to fix, maybe be bold and replace the point light with 3 spots facing downwars and covering 120 degrees each?

    @Experimenter: I like the idea but the great empty void as you suggests lacks something to catch the eye, something that sticks out.

  • IlenaIlena Posts: 283
    edited December 1969

    Obviously the skin needs fixing but here's what I've got so far.

    09.png
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  • TotteTotte Posts: 13,977
    edited December 1969

    @Ilena52: Yes, some material works and you got a little weird shadow in the face, maybe a close spot to give the face a more even light.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited May 2013

    Llan the Wanderer said:
    ...You have make me sweat to improve! :P

    But again, many thanks!

    It looks like you caught whatever it was that was leaking onto the hand. I notice a number of things that look better, but in general there is more dimension to the lighting. It looks very nice to me. :)

    [Edit] Forgot to mention, I had come up with a solution to your particular light leak problem. If it was the candle leaking through the top, you could have created a small primitive plane and placed it above the candle top to act as a shadow blocker. to block the lighting the way it should have been blocked. It would have been a fudge but it should have worked.

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    Totte said:
    @Ilena52: Yes, some material works and you got a little weird shadow in the face, maybe a close spot to give the face a more even light.

    The weird shadow is the front windshield, it's supposed to be there.
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited May 2013

    Totte said:
    @Ilena52: Yes, some material works and you got a little weird shadow in the face, maybe a close spot to give the face a more even light.

    The weird shadow is the front windshield, it's supposed to be there. However, I liked it when the lighting on the face was a little softer, but that is totally artistic opinion (meaning it isn't any more correct either way.) The lighting as it is is more dramatic. But with the more dramatic lighting, I have to agree with Totte that the shadow from the windshield does look a bit off to me also. I wouldn't add more light to the face as I think it would get washed out. I don't know if reframing slightly might fix it... I'm not quite sure how I'd do it in this case.

    [Edit] It just occurred to me that there is no specular on the windshield, making it hard to identify. I don't think this alone would fix the way it's shadow falls on the face, but it would make it easier to identify it as a windshield.
    ..

    Post edited by Joe Cotter on
  • Llan the WandererLlan the Wanderer Posts: 11
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:

    It looks like you caught whatever it was that was leaking onto the hand. I notice a number of things that look better, but in general there is more dimension to the lighting. It looks very nice to me. :)

    [Edit] Forgot to mention, I had come up with a solution to your particular light leak problem. If it was the candle leaking through the top, you could have created a small primitive plane and placed it above the candle top to act as a shadow blocker. to block the lighting the way it should have been blocked. It would have been a fudge but it should have worked.

    Thanks.

    To tell you the truth, I have tried your solution (creating a primitive plane and placed it in the lantern above the light), but it was still the same. I don't know why. In fact, I was ready to create the whole scene again but before doing that, I checked the problem with a new lantern and miraculousely the light leak problem disappeared! :ohh:

    I think that I have put a wrong shader on the first lantern and that the plane I've tried to put between the lantern's top and light point was created with wrong parameters. I don't know. :question:

    However, all the advices given, forced me to check many parameters in the Surface tab. I'm not sure to be an expert yet, but undoubtly it helped me to improve! Those contests for beginners are a very good idea and I should have been here one year ago when I started with DAZ Studio! :red:

  • Llan the WandererLlan the Wanderer Posts: 11
    edited December 1969

    Totte said:

    @Llan the Wanderer: Nice renders, and I see progress. Sometimes light leaks are hard to fix, maybe be bold and replace the point light with 3 spots facing downwars and covering 120 degrees each?

    Thank you.
    I will explore this solution on another project if you don't mind, because I don't want to sweat again with this lantern! :)

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    Late to the party, sorry Totte.

    Experimenter said:
    What would you say about the Picture? Is anything missing, for example a Person which hold the flashlight? Or is the mood version enough?
    Thank you for your help.My only gripe is the shadows are far too dark IMHO. Try and adding fill light next to the camera facing the same way. A distant light will do at say 15 - 25 % intensity wit very soft shadows or none at all.

    Obviously the skin needs fixing but here's what I've got so far.

    I was just thinking whether it would look better if the background had motion blur and sharp focus on the bike and rider with no blur at all.
  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    Llan the Wanderer said:
    Totte said:

    @Llan the Wanderer: Nice renders, and I see progress. Sometimes light leaks are hard to fix, maybe be bold and replace the point light with 3 spots facing downwars and covering 120 degrees each?

    Thank you.
    I will explore this solution on another project if you don't mind, because I don't want to sweat again with this lantern! :)

    This is a good point you bring up here. There is a point where we want to not beat our head against the wall for minor things as it can be a time sink and discouraging. If we work on an image and it gets to be that we've spent as much time on it as we should for the moment, I find it is better to accept it or put it aside (in this case it looks nice) and come back to it in a year maybe after we've learned more nuances. This is not only more efficient, but it gives us a yardstick to see how we grow over time.

  • IlenaIlena Posts: 283
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    Late to the party, sorry Totte.

    Experimenter said:
    What would you say about the Picture? Is anything missing, for example a Person which hold the flashlight? Or is the mood version enough?
    Thank you for your help.My only gripe is the shadows are far too dark IMHO. Try and adding fill light next to the camera facing the same way. A distant light will do at say 15 - 25 % intensity wit very soft shadows or none at all.

    Obviously the skin needs fixing but here's what I've got so far.

    I was just thinking whether it would look better if the background had motion blur and sharp focus on the bike and rider with no blur at all.

    Heh, I was leaning towards the same thinking. That and it might look better if the windshield isn't present.

  • Joe CotterJoe Cotter Posts: 3,259
    edited December 1969

    Well as to the windshield, this type of bike often has a much shorter windshield. You could shorten it either with an opacity mask or by popping it into hexagon.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    My thinking on the windshield it to make to more transparent and add Index of Refraction. Search google for IOR values for prespex as I don't think they are glass which has an IOR of 1.50 upward. Refraction strength 100%

  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,340
    edited December 1969

    Experimenter said:
    What would you say about the Picture? Is anything missing, for example a Person which hold the flashlight? Or is the mood version enough?
    Thank you for your help.

    The lighting itself I think is good (though I agree with Szark that some fill lighting would probably improve it). I do think it's missing a focal character (or object).
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    I like doing images with using props only like this one

    Mask_copy.jpg
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  • Carola OCarola O Posts: 3,823
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    @carola.ottosson: The first image the lighting is looking better, but I'm not sure what the black star is, and it's stealing focus. The face of the girl where I would think you would want focus (I could be wrong here, it's up to you of course) has no light focusing on it to draw ones eyes to it.

    @Llan: I personally like the one in the upper left corner. However, the light in her left hand and perhaps on the lower part of her right arm appear a bit harsh and blown out to me. (Sometimes when you enhance one area, you notice something else that was there but you didn't notice before.) You might want to play with Linear Point lights or UberArea lights where you have more control over the distribution of the light in those areas.

    [Edit for Llan] Spot lights like that do produce blown out effects at times due to our eyes inability to accommodate the range from the dark to the light in lighting like that, so don't take what I said as 'do it this way to be more correct' rather as something to consider if that isn't the effect you are going for. It often isn't a matter of one being more correct then the other but rather our ability to produce a range of effects, blown out to graduated in the lighting in this case, depending on what we are trying to achieve with the picture. In the end, it's how all of the parts come together that matter. If the image were part of a larger composition, I might go for a blown out effect if it worked with the rest of the composition to create an overall effect I was looking to achieve (harsher = more drama, more graduated, more gentle/fantasy/romantic) Here, with it being a standalone thing, I would tend to have a bit more graduated type of lighting, but subtle.. not overdone, as in the lighting should have hotspots. All personal opinion.. if it helps, great.. if not, discard it ;)
    ..


    I was trying to experiemnt with something that in swedish is called "fondvägg" or "fototapet", no idea what it's claled in english though. But it's basically a wall that has either a different color than the rest, has a photo wallpaper or has motif painting on it. The stars mights not have been a good picture to use for that, but it was worth a try :)

    bigh said:
    carola.ottosson said:
    several cups of coffee later,, some tweaking, lots of cursing and Coldplay playing loud in the background I think I managed to make that strange shadowy block better.

    Also ended up re-working my older pic, Moment of Thoughts, a bit, some difference in the lights and changed colors and angles around a bit too *smiles*

    /C

    like the dog render - maybe you can move the tree into the scene

    I did add a tree.. and spent the whole darn day tweaking and cursing to try to make it stop casting a shadow on the background wall *laughs* Eventually (after having added two more spotlights to the scene) I have actually had to given up on that, but I changed the angle of the render and some closer distance to the girl and the pup, so most of the treeshadow against the wall is hidden, in a sense.

    I do like the way it ended up looking though *surprised*


    You are all making great progress with your renders. (I've been cur from internet for a while, been chewing nail and pens)

    @bluemoon: Looking good, in the first, all i miss is something to draw the eyes to the face, a little extra soft lights on the face, but the camera angle and framing is spot on. I agree with Scott, the first one is better, you clip the wings in the second, add some space so the wings fit.

    @peter.schelfhout: Nice image. I would lower the specularity on some clothes or have two lights, one with diffuse and one with specular and a little lower to avoid to smooth specula spots on clothes, and upp the reflection on the car so it's more reflecting light, but that's my opinion. Some materials looks a little plastic when lit.

    @carola.ottosson: Coming along nicely, the stars on walls could have some softer shadows, and the girl with the dog would probably benefit from something as Scott said covers a little of the millennium environment. Have you tried to change camera angle to show her face more and making the background a little darker overall?

    @Llan the Wanderer: Nice renders, and I see progress. Sometimes light leaks are hard to fix, maybe be bold and replace the point light with 3 spots facing downwars and covering 120 degrees each?

    @Experimenter: I like the idea but the great empty void as you suggests lacks something to catch the eye, something that sticks out.

    I actually didn't want to show more of her face, as I wanted the focus to be more on the pup and the paw in her hand. That to be said, I have changed angles and such a bit in the end :) I did have problem making something that covered the millenium background, as everything kept casting shadows, regardless of how many lights I tried to use to soften it and re-direct with.

    In the end this picture has used 1 UE, 1 Distantlight and 5 Spotlight *sheepish smile*


    Anyhow, here are the two re-worked/tweaked pics now :)

    puppylove_contestmay2013.png
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    momentofthoughts_contestmay2013.jpg
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  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    Gedd said:
    Well as to the windshield, this type of bike often has a much shorter windshield. You could shorten it either with an opacity mask or by popping it into hexagon.

    If she's in Carrara, then no need to go into Hex. She could even adjust it in the Assembly Room.


    lena52, the method I outlined earlier about selecting and hiding polys works by manually selecting polys as well. You don't just have to go by shading domains. To select multiple polys you can drag your mouse over them. You can click an individual poly, then shift-click additional polys for fine control.


    If you don't want to hide the polys, there's other methods to manipulate them.

  • bluemoon_524a0e29babluemoon_524a0e29ba Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    @ carola.ottosson - Your first image has come along nicely and is looking great.

    @bluemoon: Looking good, in the first, all i miss is something to draw the eyes to the face, a little extra soft lights on the face, but the camera angle and framing is spot on. I agree with Scott, the first one is better, you clip the wings in the second, add some space so the wings fit.

    Thank you Totte, I added an extra spotlight and removed the two point lights that were lighting the body and head.

    Stigori-03.jpg
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  • TotteTotte Posts: 13,977
    edited December 1969

    @carola.ottosson: The bedroom one is looking really good, but the woman and dog really needs some shadows on the ground and on her, I would try to put a spotlight aiming at the camera, behind and over her (from the camera) to throw some shadows on the ground and on her, soft ones.
    But I know, the environments are often difficult to use, works better when you are making animations as you save a lot of render time.

  • Carola OCarola O Posts: 3,823
    edited May 2013

    Totte said:
    @carola.ottosson: The bedroom one is looking really good, but the woman and dog really needs some shadows on the ground and on her, I would try to put a spotlight aiming at the camera, behind and over her (from the camera) to throw some shadows on the ground and on her, soft ones.
    But I know, the environments are often difficult to use, works better when you are making animations as you save a lot of render time.

    *gulps* Ok, I'll try that... and hope the computer doesn't crash *grins* not sure it's going to like bringing two more lights.. but I will certainly try :) I be back with result, one way or another ^^

    ----

    Well, here goes.. nothing/everything/or something *laughs* I did add those two spotlights you mentioned Totte, but at first they didn't do anything at all.. part from slowing the whole work a bit more. However I ended up becoming slightly desperate, and moved the DistantLight around a bit. And suddenly there was a shadow...

    So.... this is how it looks like now *peeks out from a corner*

    puppylove_contestmay2013.jpg
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    Post edited by Carola O on
  • NeilrNeilr Posts: 69
    edited May 2013

    carola.ottosson I like the dog pic but in my vastly limited experience I would say it needs something on the order of some shadows cast from out of the scene, maybe a tree or just some leaves/ foliage? soft shadows though nothing to harsh, I think it would give more of an outside feel.....even if the shadows were not over the main characters. just a thought.

    Edit :
    I just went back and looked at your previous post and it has those shadows I was talking about just can't see them well in the latest pic

    Post edited by Neilr on
  • bluemoon_524a0e29babluemoon_524a0e29ba Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    I recently purchased Dreamlights Film Noir Tutorials. Have gone through the first module and half of the second.

    Thought I would try one for a second entry, what do you think?

    Aiko-01.jpg
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  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,050
    edited December 1969

    bluemoon said:
    I recently purchased Dreamlights Film Noir Tutorials. Have gone through the first module and half of the second.

    Thought I would try one for a second entry, what do you think?


    Nice job on that one.

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