Let’s Make Clothing! Tutorial thread. Shoes too!
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Oh I was sure this wouldn't be your first desired option however other people are also reading the thread and the information may help them too.
I hope you read through all the previously listed online tutorials in the Daz forums, and have at least 2 or 3 of the tutorials sold at Daz3d which cover something about weight mapping for beginners.
Trial and error is at times the only other way to figure out how to make something work. Sometimes taking a small bit of the project aside and working on it to run it through the entire sequence is helpful as a learning device.
The only bones that are going to move intelligently with the figure through poses are those that 'fit' the figure. Think you'll need extra pose files for the cloak itself to accommodate the other bones.
So far I've left the smoothing feature on for all my clothing items.
SickleYield has generously provided help for which we are grateful. As I've seen no cloaks like the one you're making, sometimes that means it may not be possible or "not exactly as planned". Exactly what is going wrong, I wouldn't know without doing all the work myself in the first place and right now I have about 5 projects on the go. The cloak is on my mind too ... but I seriously doubt I would approach the rigging in the same manner. I would eliminate unnecessary bones. I would have some polys attached to any existing bone. I would make as few bones as possible. The sample one I showed only had 2 for the arm, one being the figure's upper arm bone, the other a handle.
Some clothing items are made in parts. The main cloak perhaps as the one that fits to Genesis, and the possibly the shoulder cape fitting to the cloak [which would then require no bones from Genesis, but rather transferred from the cloak].
Mesh folding back in on itself for any clothing item is problematic when it comes to Genesis. Solution tips that may help include increasing the polys big time, at least for the concerned area.
As it's a lot of mesh making trial and error, this is one of the main reasons I do tend to repeat myself on, is to not go overboard with fixing the uvmaps until the item's modeling is entirely finished. I just slap any uvmap on for testing purposes. [go through less popcorn that way ... not one of my favourite tasks]
..............................................
And hold the phone guys! Found a looloo of an oopsie with the newest release of Hexagon.
Do NOT make face normals using the "close holes" option.
Think of the Boolean mess created before ... you know, it looks good in Hexagon ... well it sure doesn't in D/S.
HOLES.
My chair's seat cover had HOLES in it.
So, yes, sadly the polycount is rather atrocious for my latest prop release. Sigh.
Oh I was sure this wouldn't be your first desired option however other people are also reading the thread and the information may help them too.
I hope you read through all the previously listed online tutorials in the Daz forums, and have at least 2 or 3 of the tutorials sold at Daz3d which cover something about weight mapping for beginners.
Trial and error is at times the only other way to figure out how to make something work. Sometimes taking a small bit of the project aside and working on it to run it through the entire sequence is helpful as a learning device.
The only bones that are going to move intelligently with the figure through poses are those that 'fit' the figure. Think you'll need extra pose files for the cloak itself to accommodate the other bones.
So far I've left the smoothing feature on for all my clothing items.
SickleYield has generously provided help for which we are grateful. As I've seen no cloaks like the one you're making, sometimes that means it may not be possible or "not exactly as planned". Exactly what is going wrong, I wouldn't know without doing all the work myself in the first place and right now I have about 5 projects on the go. The cloak is on my mind too ... but I seriously doubt I would approach the rigging in the same manner. I would eliminate unnecessary bones. I would have some polys attached to any existing bone. I would make as few bones as possible. The sample one I showed only had 2 for the arm, one being the figure's upper arm bone, the other a handle.
Some clothing items are made in parts. The main cloak perhaps as the one that fits to Genesis, and the possibly the shoulder cape fitting to the cloak [which would then require no bones from Genesis, but rather transferred from the cloak].
Mesh folding back in on itself for any clothing item is problematic when it comes to Genesis. Solution tips that may help include increasing the polys big time, at least for the concerned area.
As it's a lot of mesh making trial and error, this is one of the main reasons I do tend to repeat myself on, is to not go overboard with fixing the uvmaps until the item's modeling is entirely finished. I just slap any uvmap on for testing purposes. [go through less popcorn that way ... not one of my favourite tasks]
..............................................
And hold the phone guys! Found a looloo of an oopsie with the newest release of Hexagon.
Do NOT make face normals using the "close holes" option.
Think of the Boolean mess created before ... you know, it looks good in Hexagon ... well it sure doesn't in D/S.
HOLES.
My chair's seat cover had HOLES in it.
So, yes, sadly the polycount is rather atrocious for my latest prop release. Sigh.
If I could figure out how to make "Handles" that's be great, but I didn't see that option in the "Joint Editor". If anyone is willing to test what I have so far and troubleshoot it, I can send it to you. Low-poly, high-poly and the Object files for each. Just PM me an email.
As for Tutorials, I only watched one series of tutorials Roygee linked to for me in my WIP thread in the Hexagon forums. And I don't own any paid for tutorials of any sort. I'm doing this purely by trial and error, and asking questions.
Well you're in luck. SickleYield's skirt tutorial covers making handles.
http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=3251538
There's a part two for that lesson series as well. Also in the archives.
..........................................
Of all what's available; these are the first 3 that come to mind as really helpful tuts. They do go on sale like everything else does in the store from time to time.
http://www.daz3d.com/rigging-original-figures-in-ds4-pro [includes a mesh]
http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-basic-clothing-rig-kit [30% off atm] [kit includes a .pdf tutorial]
http://www.daz3d.com/advanced-rigging-in-daz-studio-4-pro
Well you're in luck. SickleYield's skirt tutorial covers making handles.
http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=3251538
There's a part two for that lesson series as well. Also in the archives.
..........................................
Of all what's available; these are the first 3 that come to mind as really helpful tuts. They do go on sale like everything else does in the store from time to time.
http://www.daz3d.com/rigging-original-figures-in-ds4-pro [includes a mesh]
http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-basic-clothing-rig-kit [30% off atm] [kit includes a .pdf tutorial]
http://www.daz3d.com/advanced-rigging-in-daz-studio-4-pro
I can't afford to buy tutorials, so I don't. As it stands, I rarely buy products. Money is that tight. My rent alone takes about 90% of my monthly income as it is.
Also, I've read that tutorial from the Archives. It covers turning normal bones into handles, not really making them from scratch. or explains how they move differently than normal bones, other than allowing parts of the garment to move independently of the figure wearing it.
One reason I'd like another pair of eyes on this piece is to catch problems I can't figure out. I'm wondering too if the position of the bones might be an issue because the more smoothing I add to the weight maps, the mesh "Sloughs off" of the bones, exposing them, except for a few points here and there.
Okay ... this will be a very general "something about bones" ... I'm making the images as we travel along here so feel free to interject any questions.
1st ... so everybody is "one the same page" ... it's the City Limits that is the proper working environment for creating stuff.
We will get to the part that applies also to clothes ...
I have deleted the chair file first loaded.
Imported the geometry for the chair into the Figure Skeleton Setup.
One needs to choose the type of rigging to be done.
First, just getting the bones going in a better direction.
Well I'm definitely not covering weight mapping tonight!
Okay. This in a nutshell is all there is to just creating or deleting a bone. Just the bone.
Then polygons of the mesh need to be assigned to the bone.
Then weights have to be applied to the bone.
Once the basic bones themselves are made, create the figure file in D/S4.x so that as one continues working on the item one does not have to go back to the very beginning if/when any amount of work needs to be undone and redone.
My big question is, though, what's the difference between a "bone" and a "handle", and how do I make "handles" instead of bones if those would work better for my purposes? From what little I've gathered from SickleYield's tutorial, what I have seem to be handles, if I'm not mistaken. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Oh, sorry missed that. Just the name. You can name the bone anything you like. By referencing it as a handle it signifies that it is not a "fit to" the figure bone.
If one is trying to reuse a pre-existing bone as a handle that originally came from the figure via the transfer utility, it must be renamed to lose the connection.
Oh, sorry missed that. Just the name. You can name the bone anything you like. By referencing it as a handle it signifies that it is not a "fit to" the figure bone.
If one is trying to reuse a pre-existing bone as a handle that originally came from the figure via the transfer utility, it must be renamed to lose the connection.So what I have are "handles" already. How come they're not working as I've seen handles on skirts and such work then? This is why I need a tester to troubleshoot. Preferably someone who knows a heck of a lot more than me.
I would guess just because of the number of them and the complexity of the rigging. It's rare that a skirt even has six handles (and when it does that's a fancy rig, not many artists will do it and I haven't yet).
Here's a few more pics.
okay these did not load up in the right order ... hovering over them will display the numbered sequence.
And here are a couple of links from the online Daz Manual.
Content Rigging Start
Page with Handles
.............................
And there's this item which may be of interest:
Wancow's rig for lots of skirt handles [and one needs this to load the item fully]
I would guess just because of the number of them and the complexity of the rigging. It's rare that a skirt even has six handles (and when it does that's a fancy rig, not many artists will do it and I haven't yet).A skirt only has to accommodate the thighs, shins, and maybe feet though. I have to accommodate the arms, chest, both abdomens, pelvis, and thighs and knees. That's a lot more body to move around and fold with. (as when seated). That's why I figured I'd need more bones/handles.
I would guess just because of the number of them and the complexity of the rigging. It's rare that a skirt even has six handles (and when it does that's a fancy rig, not many artists will do it and I haven't yet).A skirt only has to accommodate the thighs, shins, and maybe feet though. I have to accommodate the arms, chest, both abdomens, pelvis, and thighs and knees. That's a lot more body to move around and fold with. (as when seated). That's why I figured I'd need more bones/handles.
I'm not saying you shouldn't. If you pull it off it'll sell like crazy. I'm just saying, you're doing something harder than has generally been done to this point, so it's not going to behave the same way.
I would guess just because of the number of them and the complexity of the rigging. It's rare that a skirt even has six handles (and when it does that's a fancy rig, not many artists will do it and I haven't yet).A skirt only has to accommodate the thighs, shins, and maybe feet though. I have to accommodate the arms, chest, both abdomens, pelvis, and thighs and knees. That's a lot more body to move around and fold with. (as when seated). That's why I figured I'd need more bones/handles.
I'm not saying you shouldn't. If you pull it off it'll sell like crazy. I'm just saying, you're doing something harder than has generally been done to this point, so it's not going to behave the same way.True enough, I just need it to behave. From reading that tutorial you linked to, it turns out what I have are bones, not handles, specifically "ghost bones". Those little cones floating around the skirt in the illustration are handles, and I don't seen any tool to create them, if they're what I need as well. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
I'm not saying you shouldn't. If you pull it off it'll sell like crazy. I'm just saying, you're doing something harder than has generally been done to this point, so it's not going to behave the same way.True enough, I just need it to behave. From reading that tutorial you linked to, it turns out what I have are bones, not handles, specifically "ghost bones". Those little cones floating around the skirt in the illustration are handles, and I don't seen any tool to create them, if they're what I need as well. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Aha. No, actual handles aren't used much on Genesis. They weren't really necessary in Gen 4, just some people liked to be able to see them rather than actually selecting bones from the scene tab or bone list. If you did want to add them, what you would do is add them to the base mesh and then rig each handle 100% to the group it goes with. Then when people grabbed the handle mesh they'd be pulling the group attached. It makes less sense with a weight mapped figure and the 100% maximum that wasn't present with overlapping spherical falloff zones.
No you don't need those little cones. Left over idea AFAIK from legacy rigging.
Cones, well, that's just a little mesh shape, created in any modeler such as Hexagon. There's a pre-made shape to select even for them.
I'm not saying you shouldn't. If you pull it off it'll sell like crazy. I'm just saying, you're doing something harder than has generally been done to this point, so it's not going to behave the same way.True enough, I just need it to behave. From reading that tutorial you linked to, it turns out what I have are bones, not handles, specifically "ghost bones". Those little cones floating around the skirt in the illustration are handles, and I don't seen any tool to create them, if they're what I need as well. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Aha. No, actual handles aren't used much on Genesis. They weren't really necessary in Gen 4, just some people liked to be able to see them rather than actually selecting bones from the scene tab or bone list. If you did want to add them, what you would do is add them to the base mesh and then rig each handle 100% to the group it goes with. Then when people grabbed the handle mesh they'd be pulling the group attached. It makes less sense with a weight mapped figure and the 100% maximum that wasn't present with overlapping spherical falloff zones.Thank you for that clarification. So I don't need handles after all.
Tramp, didn't you post a screenshot of the rig at some point? I seem to recall that...
Okay, here's what I'm seeing that is kinda bothering me about the rig, its smaller on top (the mesh, than is at the bottom... but the rig does not follow that. If I were approaching this, I'd branch the bones rather than try and accomplish this off a single string of bones from each root. Fewer bones near the neck, more around the hem. That's how I would approach it... By the size of your cape, you have a five bones on each string, I'd lower that to four, or even three, and branch them.
I'm working on the new rig for the Belle Gown, I hope to have it uploaded today or tomorrow... I believe it's exactly what you need for expansion and contraction...
Can't export the rig, I don't think...
Wancow you are Gifted! That's an amazing job of rigging on the dress! Dress is here.
May I post an image of it here?