genesis shader

TheKD

Hello again guys, it's been a while. I have been lost in blender for many months now, and decided to come up for air and take a break. Going to get back to what I started in 3D for, making some art. Here is the deal.....

I am a bit rusty in carrara, and never used genesis at all in carrara before. What I would like to do, is make myself some "elite" shader templates, like I used to have for M4 and V4. Basically what that was, was shaders set up with tiny jpg placeholders, so I could swap in any texture I desired. How does one go about making one for genesis though? Word on the streets is that the domains are completely different from the gen4 guys, not sure if it is true. Hopefully some of you that have been playing with genesis for a bit could help me out lol. Thanks :D

fixmypcmike

Genesis can have multiple UVsets, the default is V4.

TheKD

Does that mean that I can just drag and drop an old shader setup for V4 and it will just work, provided it has the V4 UV's on it? Sorry for my ignorance, I am really new to genesis system as a whole.

fixmypcmike

Yes, that should work fine.

TheKD

Wow, that is impressive, and totally unexpected. Now I will have to see if I can hunt down some old shader presets and give it a try. I probably have one on some backup DVD somewheres, will give it a go after work tonight. Thanks for the prompt response. I have to say I am impressed so far with genesis integration to carrara, not that I have played much. Just messed around with some shape sliders so far.

3DAGE

Actually,.. it may not be as simple as that in Carrara.

we like to complicate things :)

Genesis has different shader domains from V4,. so dropping an existing V4 "global Carrara shader" onto the "multi-coloured" shader ball, will result in the V4 shaders, being placed (in sequence) into the "wrong" shading domains for genesis.

What you can do is,..

Load your V4 / M4 global shader,. then select and copy / paste the shaders from there,. into the correct shading domains on a Genesis global shader.

Once you copy/paste the Hip, or torso shader, you cn paste that into the other shading domains which share that texture.
then the Limbs and face.

The eye's are differently made on the Genesis figure,. there's no "EyeSurface" shader at all in genesis.

the order of the domains is the main difference., and that's what messes up the process of dragging an existing V4 / M4 Carrara shader onto a genesis figure, or global shader.

NOTE: this does not effect the ability to load Poser or DS shaders, which are "Imported" and converted to the correct shader channels.

So, you could just apply an Elite V4 shader to a genesis figure,. then adjust te shader settings, and save as a new Carrara global shader fro genesis.

DUF files (shader preset's) saved in Daz Studio will import into carrara and translate,. so you could also load a genesis figure in DS, apply the elite textures, and then save that Shader Preset,.
then open carrara,.. load a genesis figure,. select it,.. and go to File / Import,. and select the shader preset you just made.

Hope it helps :)

TheKD

Thanks 3DAGE, I kinda thought that sounded a bit too good to be true for a DS port to Carrara lol. I should have a chance to play around later today, will give them methods a try. I suppose what I will have to do to make it really usable, is go into DS, and save out a version of genesis with the M4 and K4 UV maps on them, then make a shader template for each of them.

No eye surface sounds strange, so to make good eyes sounds like you have to make a few parts of the eyes have matching wtness and reflection, instead of just the eye surface.

ManStan

Am I the only one that has noticed that exporting mil 4 figures from studio as DUF reorders the shader zones so preset carrara multishaders wont work on them?

3DAGE

Hi Stan :)

no,. you're not the only one, but, it's being dealt with,..as far as i'm aware :)

The KD :)

I suppose what I will have to do to make it really usable, is go into DS, and save out a version of genesis with the M4 and K4 UV maps on them, then make a shader template for each of them.

No,. you already have all the different UV's,.. The Genesis and Basic female,. Basic male, Basic child already have different UV's to allow them to use texture maps from V4/M4/K4

my bad for not mentioning it.. :(

V5 and M5 come with their own UV's.

Dartanbeck

People around here are likely tired of me mentioning this:
Indigone's V4 Skin Shader Kit and Lights works great for doing what you want to do - and comes with a great shader tutorial to boot! Don't be fooled by the name: "V4 Shader Kit", as it doesn't include maps that won't work on all of your other figures. The tutorial gives great instructions on where to plug in your favorite textures and how to tweak on them.

Instead of using a single, global shader preset, this set gives you the individual shaders. So you drag the torso shader onto the hip, torso, etc.,
Just know ahead of time that they use subsurface scattering. So if you don't want to use that, simply set that channel to "None".

Indigone also has her Endless Eyes Kit for V4 which, again, should work for nearly any similarly UV mapped figure - as it uses procedural shaders - but with instructions for dropping in your favorite shaders.

The really cool thing about both kits, besides the fact that they are unbelievably free, is that they don't have texture maps stored into them - and they work that way. For what you're looking for, this can be ideal. Especially once you get used to loading in the texture maps from your collection - which becomes automatic in very short time - like the first or second model you work with - or so. And if you've been away for a while, just open the tutorial for a quick reminder! :)

Dartanbeck

I have a video tutorial of me using these kits on Genesis to make a custom Orc. But I haven't made it web-ready yet - as I'm too sick right now to remain on this computer for more than a few minutes a day. Which is now - time to go back to bed. Hope you have even at least a fraction of the fun I have been having with Genesis in beta 8.5 Carrara. But even much more. The fact that Indigone's kits are procedural to start with, they work very nicely for making custom creatures and people. Mess around with colors and a few of the millions of ways to apply color gradients to the existing shaders that she gives you, and you'll be addicted, like me. Just warning you! LOL

TheKD

Thanks Dartanbeck, free is about all the money I have to spend these days lol. Now if I can only remember my old sharecg password, been a while since I logged in there :P

Dartanbeck

TheKD said:

Thanks Dartanbeck, free is about all the money I have to spend these days lol. Now if I can only remember my old sharecg password, been a while since I logged in there :P

You're welcome. I had the same problem, which kept me out of ShareCG for a few weeks - then it hit me... and I got in! :)

It's a bit disorganized right now, but the Carrara Information Manual thread has a good bit of info, links, and links to tutorials and such. Feel free to poke around, give some ideas, ask questions, have fun posting renders, whatever you'd like.

TheKD

Yeah I finally got mine too lmao. That is an amazing info thread you put together there, went straight to bookmarks. Now all I need is some free time where I am not exhausted from work :D

TheKD

Well I tried out Indigone's skin setup, that is an excellent starting point, thanks for pointing it out :D

TheKD

Hmmmm, is it just me, or does it seem that geografted female genitals do not work very well in carrara? I made a full character with both V4 UV, and textured it in DS, saved it out as DUF scene. Looked seemless and great in DS, texture of genitals looked all messed up in carrara though, like the texture is offset or something. Don't own a whole lot of genesis stuff, it's the only geograft I have to test. Later will try with genesis native textures and see if the results are the same.

3DAGE

HI The KD :)

You don't have to work that way,..

Genesis Basic female, Basic Male, and Basic child,. use V4 / M4 / and K4 UV sets.

So,. if you wanted to convert an existing V4 (Carrara) skin shader,, to work on genesis,. you'd start by loading the "Basic female" in Carrara, and then apply your carrara shaders (for each domain) to the genesis basic female,. the save the global shader to you browser when you're done.

The same applies to M4 / Basic male,. and the Kids 4 / Basic child

When you import any other file format which includes shaders, into carrara,. it'll convert those shaders, to Carrara's shaders,. and DUF is no different,. so it's best to check that conversion, and possibly adjust some values in the shaders, after import.

what you're seeing may be because of the shader conversion,., EG: texture maps still using Multiply with colour,.

:)

TheKD

Ok, here is what I have tried so far. I finally figured out what you were talking about with the basic female, basic male etc, those are found in the people > genesis > characters folder in case anyone comes across this thread in search.

1) Dragged in basic female, applied shaders, looked good on just the genesis so far. then I dragged in the geografted female gen, and applied the torso shader on it. The mesh itself looks right, but the texture is not aligning properly at all.

2) Went back into DS and saved out a version of the female gens with both basic female, and v4 UV set. Tried them both, same issue, texture is not lining up at all. I would post a picture, but I am pretty sure it would violate the prudish DAZ forum rules :P

To try to describe the problem, is is blotched with the default grey that basic female comes in as, as if there is areas that are not covered by the UV maps.

Dartanbeck

Ahah... I've finally sorted out the solution in my leaky brain pan! ;-)

There is no V4 geografted Genetalia as it was developed and then UV Mapped for V5! Bam... Damn I'm good!

The dead giveaway was your description of mis-placed UV's

Dartanbeck

Perhaps you could work the V4 part of the texture to the size and placement needed (compared to what comes with the V5 textures) in an image editor - to get it to work on V4 mapped characters?

TheKD

Hmmm, so that would mean I would have to spring for V5, and use v5 maps to get them to map proper out of the box?

Dartanbeck

TheKD said:

Hmmm, so that would mean I would have to spring for V5, and use v5 maps to get them to map proper out of the box?

Really? How did you get the genitalia? You mean the one for Genesis? Perhaps I'm mistaken. The only one I knew of was part of the V5 Pro Bundle. Perhaps that has changed.

I don't know of any other geografted genitalia model for Genesis females. But I must admit to being somewhat out of the loop, lately.
Either way, When the textures turn out looking all funky, like the map doesn't fit the model, that will be because the map applied doesn't jive with the way the UV mapping was set up. Maybe there's a freebie V5 shader somewhere on the web that you can get to use as a clue towards how to resize/position that part of V4 textures to get a Gen map that works.

TheKD

Maybe you are right, will have to check with the old lady this weekend, find out where she is hiding the rest of the daz studio files or make her redownload everything lol. It still sucks that I can use V4 maps fine in studio, but don't work in carrara though.

TheKD

Ok, you are right, and I tried with a V5 Skin and it seems to work properly. I am hoping they will get it working with v4 UV set though, I have a whole boat load of skin sets I have made with those UV's I don't want to see go to waste :D
I guess from here on out I will have to do my custom skins on V5 UV set, hopefully it is not a huge difference and will be easy to make the switch.

3DAGE

HI :)

You can use your V4 shaders on genesis,. and genesis can be any shape you want,

The Main genesis figures do have different UV sets, so you can't use V4 shaders or texture maps on those.
but if you begin working with a "Base Female" genesis figure. then you can use V4 texture maps, since the genesis "Base Female" has the same UV's as V4.

the same applies to the "Base Male" figure, and M4 maps, and the Basic child can use the K4 textures.

but you can't start with a V5, or M5 and then use V4, or M4 texture maps, since V5 and M5 have different UV's

But,.. Any genesis figure can be shaped to be any genesis figure.. (see pic1)
So you can start with a base female, add v4 textures then shape the figure to V5, or M5, or a troll, gorilla etc..

You can apply Poser V4 shaders to the genesis base female. and adjust them as you would normally with poser shaders.
Or,..
If you want to apply your saved Carrara shaders,. then you can do that, ...manually

In the shader room,.

You can Double click your Carrara preset shader in the browser,. which will open it up as a "Multi-shading domains shader" (Global shader) which is the list of all the different shading domains,. in their correct order for V4.
All your settings for texture maps, bump, highlight etc,. are held each of those shaders.

Each mutli-shader channel, can be copied from your V4 Global shader,. and pasted into the appropriate shading domain in the Genesis "Base Female" shader tree. EG: Torso, Arms, Face etc..

so it's just a matter of opening the genesis figure's shaders, and opening your V4 shader from the browser, then copying the shaders from V4 global shaders,. to genesis,. then saving that to your browser as a new Genesis V4skin shader.

pics to help.
/ Genesis using V4's basic textures,. shaped into something truly beautiful.
/ V4's Carrara "global" shader, opened from the browser.
/ Genesis and V4 shaders

TIP:
when you're working with a shader from the browser,. and a figure from a scene together like this,.
The shaders from the figure in your scene, will disappear from the right hand panel, whenever you select your Carrara shader, to copy a channel or setting.

You can get the scene figures shader tree back, by leaving the figures "default shader" window open, but reduced at the top, out of the way. see pics.

The "Default shader" will open up,. the first time you double click to edit any of the scene figures shader channels.

hope that makes sense

TheKD

Oh yeah, to clarify, V4 UV textures look great on genesis body, just not the geograft genital prop. I guess it is good I don't do much butt ass naked renders, it would just be nice to know I have it if I ever need it. So far my biggest complaint about genesis in carrara, is the parameter(shape) tab. It is a real mess, kinda hard to find stuff. But that is how I feel about it in daz studio as well, so I guess it just carries over like that. Would be nice to be able to custom group morphs, with nested lists like we can with the content manager :D

Oh yeah, thanks a lot you guys for the feedback. The regulars here are what keeps me coming back, always willing to help out :)

LinkRS

3DAGE said:

HI :)

You can use your V4 shaders on genesis,. and genesis can be any shape you want,

The Main genesis figures do have different UV sets, so you can't use V4 shaders or texture maps on those.
but if you begin working with a "Base Female" genesis figure. then you can use V4 texture maps, since the genesis "Base Female" has the same UV's as V4.

the same applies to the "Base Male" figure, and M4 maps, and the Basic child can use the K4 textures.

but you can't start with a V5, or M5 and then use V4, or M4 texture maps, since V5 and M5 have different UV's

But,.. Any genesis figure can be shaped to be any genesis figure.. (see pic1)
So you can start with a base female, add v4 textures then shape the figure to V5, or M5, or a troll, gorilla etc..

You can apply Poser V4 shaders to the genesis base female. and adjust them as you would normally with poser shaders.
Or,..
If you want to apply your saved Carrara shaders,. then you can do that, ...manually

In the shader room,.

You can Double click your Carrara preset shader in the browser,. which will open it up as a "Multi-shading domains shader" (Global shader) which is the list of all the different shading domains,. in their correct order for V4.
All your settings for texture maps, bump, highlight etc,. are held each of those shaders.

Each mutli-shader channel, can be copied from your V4 Global shader,. and pasted into the appropriate shading domain in the Genesis "Base Female" shader tree. EG: Torso, Arms, Face etc..

so it's just a matter of opening the genesis figure's shaders, and opening your V4 shader from the browser, then copying the shaders from V4 global shaders,. to genesis,. then saving that to your browser as a new Genesis V4skin shader.

pics to help.
/ Genesis using V4's basic textures,. shaped into something truly beautiful.
/ V4's Carrara "global" shader, opened from the browser.
/ Genesis and V4 shaders

TIP:
when you're working with a shader from the browser,. and a figure from a scene together like this,.
The shaders from the figure in your scene, will disappear from the right hand panel, whenever you select your Carrara shader, to copy a channel or setting.

You can get the scene figures shader tree back, by leaving the figures "default shader" window open, but reduced at the top, out of the way. see pics.

The "Default shader" will open up,. the first time you double click to edit any of the scene figures shader channels.

hope that makes sense

Hi 3DAGE,

Thanks for this post! Thanks to you, I was able to use one of the V4 Elite Carrara Shaders on Genesis.

Rich S.

3DAGE

You're welcome,.
I'm glad it helped someone :)