Any favorite AoA settings for female lip gloss using 3Delight?

RenderPretender

Hi -

As the subject line suggests, I wonder if anyone might have any AoA subsurface shader settings they'd like to share for glossy lips. I'm using 3Delight. I have never been able to achieve the look of the promos, especially when the character's lips are not driven by a specular map. I'm aware of a DAZ Default setting on here, but it doesn't quite accomplish what I'm after.

Thank you!

Sven Dullah

masi3vee said:

Hi -

As the subject line suggests, I wonder if anyone might have any AoA subsurface shader settings they'd like to share for glossy lips. I'm using 3Delight. I have never been able to achieve the look of the promos, especially when the character's lips are not driven by a specular map. I'm aware of a DAZ Default setting on here, but it doesn't quite accomplish what I'm after.

Thank you!

Can you post an example of the look you want?

RenderPretender

https://www.daz3d.com/princess-ali-ii-for-genesis-3-female

Her lips in my renders don't look anywhere close to the promos in 3Delight. They're matt... not the slightest bit glossy, regardless of the light I use. I'd be happy if the product simply performed as represented in the advertising. How to get there? I don't know.

Sven Dullah

masi3vee said:

https://www.daz3d.com/princess-ali-ii-for-genesis-3-female

Her lips in my renders don't look anywhere close to the promos in 3Delight. They're matt... not the slightest bit glossy, regardless of the light I use. I'd be happy if the product simply performed as represented in the advertising. How to get there? I don't know.

Ok it's all about shaders and lightning. You have to have some specular source in the scene to get the highlights (unless you use raytraced reflections instead). So what kind of lightning do you use? If you rely on the UE2 for global illumination be aware that it doesn't output specular light. With the right kind of lightning you can pretty much get that look with the DS default shader by setting glossiness to about 50-60%,specular color to pure white and spec. strength to 80% or more. If you have a "to go" light setup, tell me what kind of light and I can look into the AoA shader;)

RenderPretender

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

https://www.daz3d.com/princess-ali-ii-for-genesis-3-female

Her lips in my renders don't look anywhere close to the promos in 3Delight. They're matt... not the slightest bit glossy, regardless of the light I use. I'd be happy if the product simply performed as represented in the advertising. How to get there? I don't know.

Ok it's all about shaders and lightning. You have to have some specular source in the scene to get the highlights (unless you use raytraced reflections instead). So what kind of lightning do you use? If you rely on the UE2 for global illumination be aware that it doesn't output specular light. With the right kind of lightning you can pretty much get that look with the DS default shader by setting glossiness to about 50-60%,specular color to pure white and spec. strength to 80% or more. If you have a "to go" light setup, tell me what kind of light and I can look into the AoA shader;)

Thanks again for replying. Actually, I almost always use the AoA Ambient Light as a base, and sometimes alone if I'm looking for a softer look. Then occasionally I'll add an ambient or other spot, fill, rim, etc.. But to be fair, I rarely use specular lights and have not tried one with this character. I'll do that and see what happens.

But specular light source aside, I really think that part of the issue with this model is that there are no maps in the specular channels, so all attempts to brighten the channels at all give unwanted illumination of the whole lip surface, and not just the area of the character's lips. I'm honestly almost ready to paint highlights on in postwork.

EDIT: I seem to be having a tiny bit of luck with a specular-only light from another kit, jacked up to 200 with a white color. Might try messing with the specular glossiness, but I'm pretty much locked into 14 and 10, respectively, for Specular 1 and Specular 2 intensity because of the lip surface issue mentioned above.

Sven Dullah

masi3vee said:

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

https://www.daz3d.com/princess-ali-ii-for-genesis-3-female

Her lips in my renders don't look anywhere close to the promos in 3Delight. They're matt... not the slightest bit glossy, regardless of the light I use. I'd be happy if the product simply performed as represented in the advertising. How to get there? I don't know.

Ok it's all about shaders and lightning. You have to have some specular source in the scene to get the highlights (unless you use raytraced reflections instead). So what kind of lightning do you use? If you rely on the UE2 for global illumination be aware that it doesn't output specular light. With the right kind of lightning you can pretty much get that look with the DS default shader by setting glossiness to about 50-60%,specular color to pure white and spec. strength to 80% or more. If you have a "to go" light setup, tell me what kind of light and I can look into the AoA shader;)

Thanks again for replying. Actually, I almost always use the AoA Ambient Light as a base, and sometimes alone if I'm looking for a softer look. Then occasionally I'll add an ambient or other spot, fill, rim, etc.. But to be fair, I rarely use specular lights and have not tried one with this character. I'll do that and see what happens.

But specular light source aside, I really think that part of the issue with this model is that there are no maps in the specular channels, so all attempts to brighten the channels at all give unwanted illumination of the whole lip surface, and not just the area of the character's lips. I'm honestly almost ready to paint highlights on in postwork.

The AoA ambient light has a high specular output so in that case it must be the surface settings that are the problem. Since I rarely use the AoA SSS (and prefer the UberSurface shader because it renders much faster) I made a testrender using the IBL- Master by Parris as a light source. But I think with the AoA ambient I would have got similar speculars. If you remove the maps in specular channel you really should get stronger highlights but with a more painted on look as they then depend only on geometry and camera angle. That's what I did here, removed the maps. Glossiness controls the size of the highlights, a higher value gives sharper highlights so if set to high they may become almost invisible. And you can always remove limits and crank up the strength if needed.

You can try to apply the DS default shader to the lips as it gives pretty descent highlights with the AoA ambient. Set the lightning model to glossy plastic, glossiness to 65-75%, specular color to pure white and specular strength to 100% and remove all specular maps. You should get really glossy lips, change the lightning model to plastic for softer highlights. When you see that your light setup produces highlights you can apply the AoA SSS shader and start tweaking:)

RenderPretender

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

https://www.daz3d.com/princess-ali-ii-for-genesis-3-female

Her lips in my renders don't look anywhere close to the promos in 3Delight. They're matt... not the slightest bit glossy, regardless of the light I use. I'd be happy if the product simply performed as represented in the advertising. How to get there? I don't know.

Ok it's all about shaders and lightning. You have to have some specular source in the scene to get the highlights (unless you use raytraced reflections instead). So what kind of lightning do you use? If you rely on the UE2 for global illumination be aware that it doesn't output specular light. With the right kind of lightning you can pretty much get that look with the DS default shader by setting glossiness to about 50-60%,specular color to pure white and spec. strength to 80% or more. If you have a "to go" light setup, tell me what kind of light and I can look into the AoA shader;)

Thanks again for replying. Actually, I almost always use the AoA Ambient Light as a base, and sometimes alone if I'm looking for a softer look. Then occasionally I'll add an ambient or other spot, fill, rim, etc.. But to be fair, I rarely use specular lights and have not tried one with this character. I'll do that and see what happens.

But specular light source aside, I really think that part of the issue with this model is that there are no maps in the specular channels, so all attempts to brighten the channels at all give unwanted illumination of the whole lip surface, and not just the area of the character's lips. I'm honestly almost ready to paint highlights on in postwork.

The AoA ambient light has a high specular output so in that case it must be the surface settings that are the problem. Since I rarely use the AoA SSS (and prefer the UberSurface shader because it renders much faster) I made a testrender using the IBL- Master by Parris as a light source. But I think with the AoA ambient I would have got similar speculars. If you remove the maps in specular channel you really should get stronger highlights but with a more painted on look as they then depend only on geometry and camera angle. That's what I did here, removed the maps. Glossiness controls the size of the highlights, a higher value gives sharper highlights so if set to high they may become almost invisible. And you can always remove limits and crank up the strength if needed.

You can try to apply the DS default shader to the lips as it gives pretty descent highlights with the AoA ambient. Set the lightning model to glossy plastic, glossiness to 65-75%, specular color to pure white and specular strength to 100% and remove all specular maps. You should get really glossy lips, change the lightning model to plastic for softer highlights. When you see that your light setup produces highlights you can apply the AoA SSS shader and start tweaking:)

I appreciate your effort. I think the result I'm achieving with the AoA Ambient Light and a Specular light are at least acceptable for now, but I still need to experiment. I tried the DAZ default, but again, the biggest issue seems to be the limitation imposed by Princess Ali's lip shape, since the outward curl of her lips is formed by the lip map, and falls within the actual lip surface. So any change in specularity shows outside the perameters of her lips. That's very frustrating, and I don't know a way around it. Again, too, she has no specular maps in the lip channel out of the box. I actually see that as a big part of the problem.

Sven Dullah

masi3vee said:

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

https://www.daz3d.com/princess-ali-ii-for-genesis-3-female

Her lips in my renders don't look anywhere close to the promos in 3Delight. They're matt... not the slightest bit glossy, regardless of the light I use. I'd be happy if the product simply performed as represented in the advertising. How to get there? I don't know.

Ok it's all about shaders and lightning. You have to have some specular source in the scene to get the highlights (unless you use raytraced reflections instead). So what kind of lightning do you use? If you rely on the UE2 for global illumination be aware that it doesn't output specular light. With the right kind of lightning you can pretty much get that look with the DS default shader by setting glossiness to about 50-60%,specular color to pure white and spec. strength to 80% or more. If you have a "to go" light setup, tell me what kind of light and I can look into the AoA shader;)

Thanks again for replying. Actually, I almost always use the AoA Ambient Light as a base, and sometimes alone if I'm looking for a softer look. Then occasionally I'll add an ambient or other spot, fill, rim, etc.. But to be fair, I rarely use specular lights and have not tried one with this character. I'll do that and see what happens.

But specular light source aside, I really think that part of the issue with this model is that there are no maps in the specular channels, so all attempts to brighten the channels at all give unwanted illumination of the whole lip surface, and not just the area of the character's lips. I'm honestly almost ready to paint highlights on in postwork.

The AoA ambient light has a high specular output so in that case it must be the surface settings that are the problem. Since I rarely use the AoA SSS (and prefer the UberSurface shader because it renders much faster) I made a testrender using the IBL- Master by Parris as a light source. But I think with the AoA ambient I would have got similar speculars. If you remove the maps in specular channel you really should get stronger highlights but with a more painted on look as they then depend only on geometry and camera angle. That's what I did here, removed the maps. Glossiness controls the size of the highlights, a higher value gives sharper highlights so if set to high they may become almost invisible. And you can always remove limits and crank up the strength if needed.

You can try to apply the DS default shader to the lips as it gives pretty descent highlights with the AoA ambient. Set the lightning model to glossy plastic, glossiness to 65-75%, specular color to pure white and specular strength to 100% and remove all specular maps. You should get really glossy lips, change the lightning model to plastic for softer highlights. When you see that your light setup produces highlights you can apply the AoA SSS shader and start tweaking:)

I appreciate your effort. I think the result I'm achieving with the AoA Ambient Light and a Specular light are at least acceptable for now, but I still need to experiment. I tried the DAZ default, but again, the biggest issue seems to be the limitation imposed by Princess Ali's lip shape, since the outward curl of her lips is formed by the lip map, and falls within the actual lip surface. So any change in specularity shows outside the perameters of her lips. That's very frustrating, and I don't know a way around it. Again, too, she has no specular maps in the lip channel out of the box. I actually see that as a big part of the problem.

You could import the head specular map into Gimp/Photoshop and create a specular strength map for the lips with all black except the lips part and blur the edges to make a gradient.

RenderPretender

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

https://www.daz3d.com/princess-ali-ii-for-genesis-3-female

Her lips in my renders don't look anywhere close to the promos in 3Delight. They're matt... not the slightest bit glossy, regardless of the light I use. I'd be happy if the product simply performed as represented in the advertising. How to get there? I don't know.

Ok it's all about shaders and lightning. You have to have some specular source in the scene to get the highlights (unless you use raytraced reflections instead). So what kind of lightning do you use? If you rely on the UE2 for global illumination be aware that it doesn't output specular light. With the right kind of lightning you can pretty much get that look with the DS default shader by setting glossiness to about 50-60%,specular color to pure white and spec. strength to 80% or more. If you have a "to go" light setup, tell me what kind of light and I can look into the AoA shader;)

Thanks again for replying. Actually, I almost always use the AoA Ambient Light as a base, and sometimes alone if I'm looking for a softer look. Then occasionally I'll add an ambient or other spot, fill, rim, etc.. But to be fair, I rarely use specular lights and have not tried one with this character. I'll do that and see what happens.

But specular light source aside, I really think that part of the issue with this model is that there are no maps in the specular channels, so all attempts to brighten the channels at all give unwanted illumination of the whole lip surface, and not just the area of the character's lips. I'm honestly almost ready to paint highlights on in postwork.

The AoA ambient light has a high specular output so in that case it must be the surface settings that are the problem. Since I rarely use the AoA SSS (and prefer the UberSurface shader because it renders much faster) I made a testrender using the IBL- Master by Parris as a light source. But I think with the AoA ambient I would have got similar speculars. If you remove the maps in specular channel you really should get stronger highlights but with a more painted on look as they then depend only on geometry and camera angle. That's what I did here, removed the maps. Glossiness controls the size of the highlights, a higher value gives sharper highlights so if set to high they may become almost invisible. And you can always remove limits and crank up the strength if needed.

You can try to apply the DS default shader to the lips as it gives pretty descent highlights with the AoA ambient. Set the lightning model to glossy plastic, glossiness to 65-75%, specular color to pure white and specular strength to 100% and remove all specular maps. You should get really glossy lips, change the lightning model to plastic for softer highlights. When you see that your light setup produces highlights you can apply the AoA SSS shader and start tweaking:)

I appreciate your effort. I think the result I'm achieving with the AoA Ambient Light and a Specular light are at least acceptable for now, but I still need to experiment. I tried the DAZ default, but again, the biggest issue seems to be the limitation imposed by Princess Ali's lip shape, since the outward curl of her lips is formed by the lip map, and falls within the actual lip surface. So any change in specularity shows outside the perameters of her lips. That's very frustrating, and I don't know a way around it. Again, too, she has no specular maps in the lip channel out of the box. I actually see that as a big part of the problem.

You could import the head specular map into Gimp/Photoshop and create a specular strength map for the lips with all black except the lips part and blur the edges to make a gradient.

No, it's not that. It's that you can actually see the seam between the lip and face material zones when specularity is altered beyond a certain point in intensity. But I think I have found an acceptable medium for now. Thanks much in the interim... may keep you posted.

Sven Dullah

masi3vee said:

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

Sven Dullah said:

masi3vee said:

https://www.daz3d.com/princess-ali-ii-for-genesis-3-female

Her lips in my renders don't look anywhere close to the promos in 3Delight. They're matt... not the slightest bit glossy, regardless of the light I use. I'd be happy if the product simply performed as represented in the advertising. How to get there? I don't know.

Ok it's all about shaders and lightning. You have to have some specular source in the scene to get the highlights (unless you use raytraced reflections instead). So what kind of lightning do you use? If you rely on the UE2 for global illumination be aware that it doesn't output specular light. With the right kind of lightning you can pretty much get that look with the DS default shader by setting glossiness to about 50-60%,specular color to pure white and spec. strength to 80% or more. If you have a "to go" light setup, tell me what kind of light and I can look into the AoA shader;)

Thanks again for replying. Actually, I almost always use the AoA Ambient Light as a base, and sometimes alone if I'm looking for a softer look. Then occasionally I'll add an ambient or other spot, fill, rim, etc.. But to be fair, I rarely use specular lights and have not tried one with this character. I'll do that and see what happens.

But specular light source aside, I really think that part of the issue with this model is that there are no maps in the specular channels, so all attempts to brighten the channels at all give unwanted illumination of the whole lip surface, and not just the area of the character's lips. I'm honestly almost ready to paint highlights on in postwork.

The AoA ambient light has a high specular output so in that case it must be the surface settings that are the problem. Since I rarely use the AoA SSS (and prefer the UberSurface shader because it renders much faster) I made a testrender using the IBL- Master by Parris as a light source. But I think with the AoA ambient I would have got similar speculars. If you remove the maps in specular channel you really should get stronger highlights but with a more painted on look as they then depend only on geometry and camera angle. That's what I did here, removed the maps. Glossiness controls the size of the highlights, a higher value gives sharper highlights so if set to high they may become almost invisible. And you can always remove limits and crank up the strength if needed.

You can try to apply the DS default shader to the lips as it gives pretty descent highlights with the AoA ambient. Set the lightning model to glossy plastic, glossiness to 65-75%, specular color to pure white and specular strength to 100% and remove all specular maps. You should get really glossy lips, change the lightning model to plastic for softer highlights. When you see that your light setup produces highlights you can apply the AoA SSS shader and start tweaking:)

I appreciate your effort. I think the result I'm achieving with the AoA Ambient Light and a Specular light are at least acceptable for now, but I still need to experiment. I tried the DAZ default, but again, the biggest issue seems to be the limitation imposed by Princess Ali's lip shape, since the outward curl of her lips is formed by the lip map, and falls within the actual lip surface. So any change in specularity shows outside the perameters of her lips. That's very frustrating, and I don't know a way around it. Again, too, she has no specular maps in the lip channel out of the box. I actually see that as a big part of the problem.

You could import the head specular map into Gimp/Photoshop and create a specular strength map for the lips with all black except the lips part and blur the edges to make a gradient.

No, it's not that. It's that you can actually see the seam between the lip and face material zones when specularity is altered beyond a certain point in intensity. But I think I have found an acceptable medium for now. Thanks much in the interim... may keep you posted.

NP, hope you get it solved;)

RenderPretender

Oh, and she's a lovely character, by the way... very pleasing render.

RenderPretender

Thought I'd share the result with you... thank you again for your efforts.

https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/508286/

Sven Dullah

masi3vee said:

Thought I'd share the result with you... thank you again for your efforts.

https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/508286/

Nice one, glad I could help