More Non-photorealisitic Renders (NPR II)

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Comments

  • duckbomb said:

    If I can get it to stop crashing I would be happy to start one.  This program might fall into the (too many options/don't know how to move forward) category of my brain, as there seems to be an unlimited amount of possibilities.  I tend to thrive best under restriction, for better or for worse.  At the moment, I'm wondering if my resolution is too high to keep PD stable.  Since I can't render out at 300 DPI, however, it isn't worth trading off a printable resolution for just this one program.
     

    For anybody interested, it seems like Prisma fliter app has a restriction of something around 3800 px on the long side when exporting, which isn't enough for printing a full-size comic page.  I liked the results I got, particularily in the last two posts, but due to the limited resolution output I'll have to file it away in the "fun for web, no good for print" category...

    Before you toss it, consider looking at software that specialized in image enlargement. Things like Gigapixel AI by topazlabs.com is one tool that might help you bring this up to a printable size.

    PLUS: 3800 pixels divided by 300 gives you a printed size of 12.6 inches. So, if you want to print at the minimum printable resolution, you could do it.

  • duckbomb said:

    OH Happy day!  It certainly is, thanks!  I'm excited to give this program a go!  By the way, here's another one using Prisma for the filters...

    When I get my PhotoDonut filters I like set up correctly I'll post some from that.

    I've been meaning to comment on this. Sorry for the delay. I really like the composition. It is so bloody SIMPLE that it just works. The lines draw our eyes exactly where they need to go. I love the colors and treatment you chose. The one thing I would suggest revisiting is the kid's body language and cropping. I'm not getting the full story here. Now, he's got this great, complicated gun on his back. Cool. I can tell from his pose that he's standing there (obviously he's ridden his bike out there to confront the giant robot). Even more cool. But what is he feeling? A hand on his hip would make it look like he's waiting for it confidnetly. A hand to his mouth would make him seem nervous. A hand on his head would make him seem confused. And a hand reaching for the gun would make him seem ready. 

    I hope you revisit this scene and show us what happens next.

  • StarlawStarlaw Posts: 71

    Nearly finished with my storytelling tool in Unity. Here is a mini cinematic using my soon to be released Story Node Editor. 
    I'm starting the move into Virtual Reality soon and can't wait to start making virtual comics.

    See Video Here:

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,553

    Kitty Pryde

    X-Men: Kitty Pryde by tkdrobert

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,553

    I Can Only Show You the Door

    I Can Only Show You the Door by tkdrobert

  • tkdrobert said:

    Kitty Pryde

    X-Men: Kitty Pryde by tkdrobert

    Using 3D tools makes it really easy to "ghost walk" a figure. I'm kind of surprised that I don't see more of it.

    Nicely done, and those are interesting reflections in her outfit.

  • tkdrobert said:

    I Can Only Show You the Door

    I Can Only Show You the Door by tkdrobert

    This one is nice. I really like that trippy neon-edged look you achieved. It has a more painterly feel to it that reminds me of some of the artwork used to illustrate the Shadowrun games from the late 1980s / early 1990s. 

  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,484
    edited July 2019

    I needed a quick cover for a fanzine, so I grabbed two images I had created for my comic and combined them in Manga Studio. And, since I can print this in color (on a brown parchment paper, no less) I decided to add some red. I think the red makes this work, as it allows me to shift focus where I want it to go, such as to the dragon's head and his hands.

    Unless there is a glaring error, this is finished because I've got to get this to print asap.

    (And in case you're wondering, this will not be the cover to the comic itself – this just isn't the image that will completely represent the book.)

    NF03_Cover_Smaller.jpg
    1200 x 1788 - 631K
    Post edited by mmitchell_houston on
  • This looks great! It's nice to see the completed cover. The juxtaposition of red with the black makes a good contrast that really stands out and catches the eye. There is some good framing that helps the reader navigate the image and the subtle shades of grey add depth to make this image to feel more like a 3D picture. Great work, this is an awesome cover, and suits the fanzine style.

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,553

    I needed a quick cover for a fanzine, so I grabbed two images I had created for my comic and combined them in Manga Studio. And, since I can print this in color (on a brown parchment paper, no less) I decided to add some red. I think the red makes this work, as it allows me to shift focus where I want it to go, such as to the dragon's head and his hands.

    Unless there is a glaring error, this is finished because I've got to get this to print asap.

    (And in case you're wondering, this will not be the cover to the comic itself – this just isn't the image that will completely represent the book.)

    Cool

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,553
    tkdrobert said:

    I Can Only Show You the Door

    I Can Only Show You the Door by tkdrobert

    This one is nice. I really like that trippy neon-edged look you achieved. It has a more painterly feel to it that reminds me of some of the artwork used to illustrate the Shadowrun games from the late 1980s / early 1990s. 

    This came out very different that I had originally planned.  I really got creative with this one and I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out.

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,553
    tkdrobert said:

    Kitty Pryde

    X-Men: Kitty Pryde by tkdrobert

    Using 3D tools makes it really easy to "ghost walk" a figure. I'm kind of surprised that I don't see more of it.

    Nicely done, and those are interesting reflections in her outfit.

    I'm getting better with PWtoon and using Spectacular Strenth in 3Delight which controls those reflections a lot more than the Reflection settings, believe it or not.

  • This looks great! It's nice to see the completed cover. The juxtaposition of red with the black makes a good contrast that really stands out and catches the eye. There is some good framing that helps the reader navigate the image and the subtle shades of grey add depth to make this image to feel more like a 3D picture. Great work, this is an awesome cover, and suits the fanzine style.

    Thank you very much. Although I put a lot of time and effort into the two separate images, I really did rush to combine them into a cover. Later I will post an updated version with a few changes (added some detail to the top cave elements, added more blood to his hands and took off the blood on his pants leg). 

    And thanks for mentioning the depth you perceived in the image. Since I already had the two main elements ready to go, I did spend a bit of time messing around with the background trying to find the right balance to tie the image together and convey a sense of depth. Nice to know that it worked.

  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,484
    edited July 2019
    tkdrobert said:
    tkdrobert said:

    Kitty Pryde

    X-Men: Kitty Pryde by tkdrobert

    Using 3D tools makes it really easy to "ghost walk" a figure. I'm kind of surprised that I don't see more of it.

    Nicely done, and those are interesting reflections in her outfit.

    I'm getting better with PWtoon and using Spectacular Strenth in 3Delight which controls those reflections a lot more than the Reflection settings, believe it or not.

    Waatever you're doing, keep it up. It's definitely working.

    I'm guessing autocorrect changed that and you originally typed "specularity strength."  Y'know, it doesn't surprise me. I used to do a lot of work with Strata 3D and there was a point at which the specularity settings really pumped up the reflections. Although I do like the various render engines to which we have access, I frequently miss the power that I used to get from Strat 3D.

    Post edited by mmitchell_houston on
  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,484
    edited July 2019

    Made some minor updates to the cover. Added more blood to the hands and removed it off his pants.

    Nite_Flyte_03_Cover_Final_Proof.jpg
    2000 x 2979 - 2M
    Post edited by mmitchell_houston on
  • StarlawStarlaw Posts: 71

    Made some minor updates to the cover. Added more blood to the hands and removed it off his pants.

    I really love how your work developed. It definitely has a much darker and emotional grab. It's great to see how the connection to the character and the story improved with the incremental tweaks. The title is although im curious, if the genre is to be portrayed along the lines of horror or thriller type. 

    How did you get the stalactites at toward the backside ceiling to sketch out like that, impressive work. 

  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,484
    edited July 2019
    Starlaw said:

    Made some minor updates to the cover. Added more blood to the hands and removed it off his pants.

    I really love how your work developed. It definitely has a much darker and emotional grab. It's great to see how the connection to the character and the story improved with the incremental tweaks. The title is although im curious, if the genre is to be portrayed along the lines of horror or thriller type. 

    How did you get the stalactites at toward the backside ceiling to sketch out like that, impressive work. 

    Ah, the title logo! That has no relationship to the content of my comic book story. Nite Flyte is the title of my contribution to a small APA, which is an Amateur Press Association. Four times a year we each create a small fanzine/newsletter, print out the appropriate copies (right now it's just 14) and then send them into a Central Mailer. The CM collects everyone's contributions and then combines them between two covers, adds a TOC and some other bookkeeping stuff, and then mails them back to us. This way, four times a year, we get to read about 50-70 pages of work by people who, like us, enjoy comics, fantasy, sci-fi and stuff like that. The name of this APA is Snicker Snack, and if you're ever interested in seeing a sample copy, let me know. 

    In this case, Nite Flyte is simply my contribution for the group. And in this case, with it being stark red against the strong black-and-white image, I can definitely see that the whole thing takes on a horror feel. But that's not my focus inside my 10-12 page contribution. The APA has been around for ages: next issue is #43. As you can see from my cover, this is just my third contribution.

    I'm glad you like the effect on the stalactites. To create them, I took a texture from Clip Studio Paint that has a lot of sketchy lines in it (I think it's called MT Volcano). I placed it on a layer and then, using the lasso tool, just drew out the shapes I wanted and then created a layer mask so that only the areas I wanted to see were visible. I then moved the pattern around inside the layer mask until I found something I liked. I also did some touch-up work on the layer mask to keep the edges from being too crisp. Specifically, I go to the layer mask and edit it to extend a stroke here and there beyond the super-straight line created by the selection tool. I even add little twists and curls here and there to line ends to give a more hand-drawn look.

    It's not a difficult process, but it does take a little time and attention to detail.

    Thanks again for the feedback!

    Post edited by mmitchell_houston on
  • StarlawStarlaw Posts: 71
    duckbomb said:

    If I can get it to stop crashing I would be happy to start one.  This program might fall into the (too many options/don't know how to move forward) category of my brain, as there seems to be an unlimited amount of possibilities.  I tend to thrive best under restriction, for better or for worse.  At the moment, I'm wondering if my resolution is too high to keep PD stable.  Since I can't render out at 300 DPI, however, it isn't worth trading off a printable resolution for just this one program.
     

    For anybody interested, it seems like Prisma fliter app has a restriction of something around 3800 px on the long side when exporting, which isn't enough for printing a full-size comic page.  I liked the results I got, particularily in the last two posts, but due to the limited resolution output I'll have to file it away in the "fun for web, no good for print" category...

    The results you achieved with Prisma blends well with the original render. 

    You can also consider Topaz and PhotoDonut (they are using similar algorithms to achieve the painted results).Upscaling is a mmitchell_houston is good idea espcecially with NPR which should result in very little artifacts noticeable. From time to time I use FilterForge because the rendering resolution is pretty much limited by the processing power of the computer.

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,553

    Blade.  IRAY with a paint filter:

    Blade by tkdrobert

  • MartirillaMartirilla Posts: 181

    This coming Sunday, 28th July 2019 - a free Visual Narratives Workshop (online, as a big-group webinar) on making digital comics, hosted by Paul of Digital Art Live.

    https://digitalartlive.com/event/visual-narratives-workshop-2019-07/

  • duckbombduckbomb Posts: 585

    Made some minor updates to the cover. Added more blood to the hands and removed it off his pants.

    I hadn't responded earlier because of travel, but THIS IS AMAZING!  It is so great... the composition, the elements, the color, the postwork... its all great!  There are so many details, and the shadow work is especially impressive!  The thick dark lines of the rock in front contrasted with the small lighter lines of the sand, as well as the super delecate ones on the treasure chest really give it a solid and composed feeling.  Very professional work, I'm loving this!

  • duckbombduckbomb Posts: 585

    I've been meaning to comment on this. Sorry for the delay. I really like the composition. It is so bloody SIMPLE that it just works. The lines draw our eyes exactly where they need to go. I love the colors and treatment you chose. The one thing I would suggest revisiting is the kid's body language and cropping. I'm not getting the full story here. Now, he's got this great, complicated gun on his back. Cool. I can tell from his pose that he's standing there (obviously he's ridden his bike out there to confront the giant robot). Even more cool. But what is he feeling? A hand on his hip would make it look like he's waiting for it confidnetly. A hand to his mouth would make him seem nervous. A hand on his head would make him seem confused. And a hand reaching for the gun would make him seem ready. 

    I hope you revisit this scene and show us what happens next.

    Thank you very much, I'm really glad that it worked!  You are right about his pose, thank you for the feedback on that!  I honestly thought he had that whole determined look going on, and I clipped out his head because I wanted him to be a bit mysterious, but I see exactly what you are saying and I actually very much agree with it.  With this one, i had to build up a few blocks and put them together (left and right) in photoshop, and it turned out to be a large amount of effort.  I wish my machine could render it as a single file, but it just runs into a memory error and goes black...  I still have the file, though, so maybe I'll do some tinkering around with it.  Thanks again for the feedback, this is exactly why I wanted to start posting here!

    AND...

     

    Before you toss it, consider looking at software that specialized in image enlargement. Things like Gigapixel AI by topazlabs.com is one tool that might help you bring this up to a printable size.

    PLUS: 3800 pixels divided by 300 gives you a printed size of 12.6 inches. So, if you want to print at the minimum printable resolution, you could do it.

    THIS is a great suggestion!  I hadn't even thought about it! I should give it a shot.  I did once have something in the area of 3400 by 1800 printed out, but I wasn't super thrilled with the results.  I think our computers just make the "fake paintwork" feel a little more natural, and once you put it on paper your eyes can no longer abide by the blatant offense to people who can actually paint, but it also could have been the piece I chose to test and where I went (I only went to Kinkos).

    I'll give it a shot, because I think Prisma (although it is intended for instagram and facebook) does a REALLY great job at breaking down a complex image and spitting out more of a cartoon.  At least, better than many of the custom PS scripts I've done.  Thanks!  I'll try it out, and post up another one!

  • duckbombduckbomb Posts: 585
    tkdrobert said:

    Kitty Pryde

    X-Men: Kitty Pryde by tkdrobert

    There's so much to love about this!  You really have a great knack for drawing out emotion from simplicity!  This also reminds me of Scott McCloud's "The Sculptor", not for any reason other than the brick wall, but still a nice connection for me.  I particularily like th bricks, and how it all seems non-uniform, which is a feat in and of itself in 3D.  Another standout point for me is her skin tone on her face and how it gradients around her cheeks.  Very "comicy".  I enjoyed it greatly!

  • tkdroberttkdrobert Posts: 3,553
    duckbomb said:
    tkdrobert said:

    Kitty Pryde

    X-Men: Kitty Pryde by tkdrobert

    There's so much to love about this!  You really have a great knack for drawing out emotion from simplicity!  This also reminds me of Scott McCloud's "The Sculptor", not for any reason other than the brick wall, but still a nice connection for me.  I particularily like th bricks, and how it all seems non-uniform, which is a feat in and of itself in 3D.  Another standout point for me is her skin tone on her face and how it gradients around her cheeks.  Very "comicy".  I enjoyed it greatly!

    Thank you.

  • duckbombduckbomb Posts: 585

    Ok, last post from me... I'm sorry for spamming!  I know that it isn't rude to let things slip on a forum, but I have a hard time feeling like I'm "ignoring" things when I'm not, and I really value everybodies input on my stuff so I want to reciprocate and do the same for all of you.  There are so many talented folks here!

    So... before I go back to Prisma, I thought I'd do this quick one to test out a very specific filter that I made for myself in Photoshop.  I don't know how evident it is, but I used a combination of actions to create a light, sketchy later for this one, that I placed on top of the final piece set to "lighten" at only 5%.  I think it helps to give some definition to her hair, as well as the printed pattern on both of their pants.  I'm not trying to replicate drawing, but I'm really trying to flatten down 3D images into something that could look like it "fits" with the flatness of speech bubbles...

     

    us_small.png
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  • duckbomb said:

    Made some minor updates to the cover. Added more blood to the hands and removed it off his pants.

    I hadn't responded earlier because of travel, but THIS IS AMAZING!  It is so great... the composition, the elements, the color, the postwork... its all great!  There are so many details, and the shadow work is especially impressive!  The thick dark lines of the rock in front contrasted with the small lighter lines of the sand, as well as the super delecate ones on the treasure chest really give it a solid and composed feeling.  Very professional work, I'm loving this!

    Thanks very much for commenting on the line thickness! That is something I was doing consciously, so it is gratifying to know that it actually worked. Of course, now that you mention it, I clearly see that I forgot to hit that line waaaay in the background (right side behind the dragon). Its thickness was okay in the original location because it butted up against something black (at least it used to – I've sense edited the background on that page to be more like this one). So I gotta hit it one more time. Even though this was created by combining two separate elements from my comic, I'm very pleased with the cohesion. Of course, this is probably because even those these images are from different pages they are based on the same scene in the same project.

    It has taken some time, but I think I'm getting better at nailing down a style I can work with that is consistent from panel-to-panel.

  • duckbomb said:
    tkdrobert said:

    Kitty Pryde

    X-Men: Kitty Pryde by tkdrobert

    There's so much to love about this!  You really have a great knack for drawing out emotion from simplicity!  This also reminds me of Scott McCloud's "The Sculptor," not for any reason other than the brick wall, but still a nice connection for me.  I particularily like the bricks, and how it all seems non-uniform, which is a feat in and of itself in 3D.  Another standout point for me is her skin tone on her face and how it gradients around her cheeks.  Very "comicy".  I enjoyed it greatly!

    Dang, I had totally forgotten that book has been on my "must buy" list for ages! I just went over to Amazon and ordered it. I also noticed the quality of the bricks background. They do seem to have a nice irregularity to shape, size, color, as well as some of them having just a bit more "lip" than the others (perfect for catching a little light). 

  • duckbomb said:

    Ok, last post from me... I'm sorry for spamming!  I know that it isn't rude to let things slip on a forum, but I have a hard time feeling like I'm "ignoring" things when I'm not, and I really value everybodies input on my stuff so I want to reciprocate and do the same for all of you.  There are so many talented folks here!

    So... before I go back to Prisma, I thought I'd do this quick one to test out a very specific filter that I made for myself in Photoshop.  I don't know how evident it is, but I used a combination of actions to create a light, sketchy later for this one, that I placed on top of the final piece set to "lighten" at only 5%.  I think it helps to give some definition to her hair, as well as the printed pattern on both of their pants.  I'm not trying to replicate drawing, but I'm really trying to flatten down 3D images into something that could look like it "fits" with the flatness of speech bubbles...

    Thanks for specifying what you were going for. I do see that you got decent results from this. The image does seem to be flatter with just a hint of painting effects on the skin. I definitely like the effect on the hair! The hair effects have scaled down nicely. I looked at the effect on the full-sized image and liked it better there than I do when I scale it down here. When scaled down it loses some of the NPR effects that are visible in the full-sized version. Maybe you could make them a little stronger?

    I also want to comment on the ottoman/cusion. It's really got a strong patter on it that, oddly enough, doesn't look too bad at this size (it becomes a type of noise when viewed this small), but is not appealing when viewed at 50-100%. For this I would suggest that you revisit the texture of the object and remove (or at least decrease) the bump map because your filter is latching onto those little details and is overworking them. BTW, this is a major problem I see with all Photoshop Actions that attempt to provide edges or inked effects: PS overworks the effect to create splotchy regions like this.

    But, overall, I do think you're onto something here and I definitely agree that a word baloon will not look weird when contrasted with this style.

    (And you don't have to apologize for "spamming" us. Like you, I frequently look at things for a day or so and then come back and write all my responses in a single sitting when I get some time. I'm always happy when you share with us.)

  • duckbombduckbomb Posts: 585

    Thanks for specifying what you were going for. I do see that you got decent results from this. The image does seem to be flatter with just a hint of painting effects on the skin. I definitely like the effect on the hair! The hair effects have scaled down nicely. I looked at the effect on the full-sized image and liked it better there than I do when I scale it down here. When scaled down it loses some of the NPR effects that are visible in the full-sized version. Maybe you could make them a little stronger?

    I also want to comment on the ottoman/cusion. It's really got a strong patter on it that, oddly enough, doesn't look too bad at this size (it becomes a type of noise when viewed this small), but is not appealing when viewed at 50-100%. For this I would suggest that you revisit the texture of the object and remove (or at least decrease) the bump map because your filter is latching onto those little details and is overworking them. BTW, this is a major problem I see with all Photoshop Actions that attempt to provide edges or inked effects: PS overworks the effect to create splotchy regions like this.

    But, overall, I do think you're onto something here and I definitely agree that a word baloon will not look weird when contrasted with this style.

    (And you don't have to apologize for "spamming" us. Like you, I frequently look at things for a day or so and then come back and write all my responses in a single sitting when I get some time. I'm always happy when you share with us.)

    I'm happy to hear the contrast between the scaled down and regular-size image, because it confirms what I've felt.  The native file size is about 8K tall, so MUCH larger than what I can even upload here.  I think that is a big part of it.  I scaled it down to about 40% in PS and exported, but the file was still too large to post so I took that .PNG that I exported and scaled down by another 10%.  I think that if my intention is to post places like this, or where I have a restricted size, I should be cogniscent of that and just render it out that way.  I'm always afraid of losing detail, but as you say, some of that details ends up just being "noise" (both good and bad).

    I'll try another with the ottoman... this is a really good obervation you made.  I hadn't noticed it, primarily because it is on a background layer, but I think that is looking like that because I used that fuzzy shader merchant resource, the one that layers on 4 geoshells.  It looks great in the origional, but you were spot in in that the bump is probably off the charts and that when I look at the full size posted here its really not appealing.  All of my tests assume that I'm going to print, as that is really my intention long-term, but the compromise that I have to make scaling it down to post really changes things.  Let me throw that thing in the next render and we'll see if it gets better!

    Thanks!

  • vrba79vrba79 Posts: 1,408

    Revamping my comic's cast for the a yet to be produced chapter. I ended up migrating to G2, when I ran into issues with fine tuning body types with G1. 

    So here's ghoul Dot and catgirl Joy.

    According to the lore my comic operates on: Ghouls are scavangers, so their on the small and spindly side. Hence Dot's petite frame.

    Smol and Tol.png
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